Hello.
This will be my first post on this website. Also, this will be a rather lengthy post as I wish to sum things up in one swoop so as to best inform anyone that cares to respond.

I don't mean to be a pessimist, but I don't expect a lot out of this. I've had too many dealings in the past wind up at dead ends, to include a good handful of professional help, i.e. psychologists and counselors.

I was at some point in the past diagnosed with BPD, but it's just a word. I put no stock in diagnosis and I think it's just a convenient way to group people at best. Nevertheless, I am posting in this sub section because BPD seems to best encompass the nature of my issues.

I am a 29 y/o male and I have little to no direction in my life. I work a p/t job and have recently gone back to school. I would not have a roof over my head if it were not for the generosity of others. I am divorced (not recently, over 9 years ago) and had two kids before I came to terms with my less than hetero sexuality. This was largely the cause of the divorce. Although my failed marriage due to sexual preference is not an issue, it serves as the premonition to the many paradoxes of my life.

I would like to start by sharing that I do not have a great many friends. This is not because I am shunned, and it is not because I do not try to be social. I simply find that I do not really want to get to know most of the people that I meet. I do not look down at them like they are stupid or mundane, or that they are somehow lesser than me because they don't understand me. I am just generally uninterested in what they have to say. I really only have two people with whom I really ever talk to. This leaves me in a bad position, as I hate to be alone and very quickly get lonely and depressed when in this state. To be perfectly honest, there are a good many times when I find myself lacking in interest with even these two very good friends. More and more often I find that I am left with no one to talk to during social engagements because everyone seems involved in conversations or activities that I really don't want a part in. So while I do not want to be alone, I don't seem to be able to find common ground with which to share time with others.

A second issue of mine is that I am a cutter. I am riddled with scars across a good portion of my back, thighs, and upper arms. This is quite often my "quick fix" when I get particularly upset. It really doesn't help too much besides a shift from crying over what triggered me, to crying about the fact that I got triggered. The things that upset me to this point are varied. The most common ones are:
-I am pointless and have wasted my life and opportunities and that I will fail at whatever I endeavor to achieve. I have gone to school more than once for drastically different vocations. I have even gone as far as completing the programs. However, by the time I am done with my schooling I am utterly disinterested in a career in that field. I have a broad and shallow education in Advertising Design, an Associates in Automotive Technology, and am currently enrolled in a university for Cosmetology. I am already having my doubts as to whether I am suited for this current field. My interests seem to swing like pendulum from one extreme to another whenever I lose interest in them.
-My friends are frustrated and tired of dealing with me and my involvement in their life is a burden. This comes largely from real life experience. As I mentioned before, I only have two people that I really, truly have opened up to and care about. However, about a year ago they had an intervention with me after an attempted suicide (not going into detail as per Admin guidelines). I was informed by them that they really had no idea how to deal with me anymore and that my actions were becoming intrusive. In their words, I needed to "pull myself out of this'. The friend that I deal with more has often told me that she can't handle the stress I lay on her with what she has going on in her own life. So very often, I feel that when I am ignored by them (and her in particular), it is because they just don't want to deal with me anymore or attempt to accommodate my 'downer' mood.
-I will never find someone that will love me and have a legitimate interest in me, and I will die alone. This.... is a big one. I KNOW that my two friends are not always going to be there. At some point and time something is going to happen that will take them away from me. They will get married, have kids, find a great career opportunity in another city, get sick and tired of me, etc. etc. This is a FACT. My only hope is that I can find someone that will love me and want to be with me before that happens. Unfortunately, my combination of interests, wants, and needs for a relationship don't make for the biggest pond from which to fish from. Not to mention the things they would have to overlook from me. Scars, emotional instability, and social awkwardness aren't exactly prize winning traits. Oh, did I mention that I dress like a female? I do this daily, not just for weekend kicks. I don't even really own guys clothes. I don't do it in a diva, drag queen kinda way though. I adopted a goth/punk metal-head adaptation to cross-dressing. These sub cultures are not teeming with openly gay people. And while I love fire and explosions and knives and guns, I am also into a lot of girly stuff like doing nails and facials and hair and the lot. Also, I'm a strict bottom and not into flamboyant guys. So like I said... I'm not in high demand. Whenever men have taken an interest in the past, it is my experience that I am more of a dirty secret to them than anything else and definitely not anything that could hope to become serious.

For the most part, I am in limbo somewhere between apathy and frustration when it comes to the all afore mentioned issues. My defense mechanism is to meet challenges and situations with cynicism, negativity, or course (often offensive) humor. It's when this frustration compounds or goes on for too long without a decent distraction that I break down and then break skin.

My parents are very supportive of me. My friends, extended family and acquaintances offer their support as well. My problem isn't that no one believes in me. My problem is that I don't believe in myself. Why? Why can't I believe in myself when everyone else seems to think I can achieve so much? Because they don't know how I feel. Or rather, what I don't feel. I feel no connection. I feel no passion. I never have. All I feel is loss. I feel abandonment. I feel ashamed and worthless when I fail. But how can I expect to do anything but fail when I have nothing vested into my own success?
I often think of the cliche question, "What will you be in 5 years? In 10?"
My answer is, "Just as lost as I am now. Just older and with less likelihood of ever finding happiness."

.....So, that's me in a very large nutshell. I could expound, but then I would have a novel.

[Trippin2.0]

A warm welcome to our neck of the woods.

I'm sorry that things have been so rough on you, yet in the same breath I'm in awe of your obvious strength, tenacity and ability to play with the crappy cards you've been dealt.

I hear you on the vocation interests... I actually just gave up and work in a field I can do with my eyes closed. Less stress and no worries about wasting any more money on degrees I never even complete.

Its not at all uncommon on this board though, the chopping and changing of careers, walking in and out of jobs. I've personally had 9 jobs in 9 years... none of them a repeat gig, its always a new endeavour.

I'm not really sure what you're (not) searching for here, so I'm not sure I responded with anything useful, buuut if its friendly faces who can relate to you on some level, you've come to the RIGHT place!

This board has seen me through some ROUGH times. Break ups, fear of breaking up, unsafe behaviour, sordid thoughts looping for days, 24hr crying stints, suicidal ideation, splitting (omg I hate splitting!!! ) you name it these folks (and the members on the bipolar board) have seen me through it all.

I find coming here with my bpd bullshyt much better than reaching out irl, because a) nobody "real" gets it, and b) refuse to scare off bf with it again.

Its an overwhelming way to live and its all too easy for real life support persons to drown. So that's why this place helps, I guess it helps me balance better.

I ramble sometimes

I hope you like it here sending you cyber hugs if that's ok with you.

Thank you, Trippin.
I'm actually not sure exactly what it is that I am even looking for here. I know it's not for anonymous affirmations or internet buddies. I actually am not for internet social networking, at all. It's not my cup of tea. I tried facebook for a bit and was on fetlife for a while. But eventually they just annoyed me. The fact that a person can log on and pick and choose who and how they decide to face and respond to seems very disingenuous. Also, the political correctness and need to watch ones tongue for fear of being deemed a troll or 'hater' is ever so frustrating. I don't mean any offense by saying this, but the internet isn't real enough for me to get by on. I need real life interaction to feel loved and worthwhile. These LCD screens with their icons and text are just a resource, and "cyber friends" are as real to me as a movie on netflix.

I guess the best thing I could say I'm in search of is advice.

• What does one do when even the professionals don't have any answers?

• How can I find purpose when I don't even know what I want? (I've been asking myself for years and I don't think the answer is coming anytime soon)

• How do I avoid alienating those that I care about without having to feel like I am having to mute myself?

• How do I stop feeling like they are leaving me behind by progressing their own lives?

I'd also like to reiterate at this point that I have seen professionals in the past to no avail, and that I am completely opposed to becoming dependent on medication to be 'normal'.

[technigal]

Welcome to the group.

You mentioned that you have had professional help in the past. Did you have the diagnosis at the time? Was the treatment DBT? I have yet to actually start DBT, I have just done a lot of reading, but from my reading DBT is the best treatment for BPD.

I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. I also lack direction and feel lonely all the time. I don't really have any friends, I just have my husband and son, while they are great I want a friend to go and get pedicures with or go to chick flicks, but I isolate myself. BPD sucks but I am hopeful with my DBT starting soon that things will change. I hope you find the change that you want as well.

Originally Posted by technigal

Welcome to the group.

You mentioned that you have had professional help in the past. Did you have the diagnosis at the time? Was the treatment DBT? I have yet to actually start DBT, I have just done a lot of reading, but from my reading DBT is the best treatment for BPD.
.

I have seen about 5 or 6 professionals (depends if you count when I was in the Military or not) throughout the years and I think only 2 orf them were Psychologists.Or is it psychiatrist? I forget which is which. Either way, the answer is no. For the most part, everyone just wanted to talk to me and try and figure out what it was that was bugging me. I remember that at some point there were a lot of situational tests and stuff... but I can honestly say that I don't think I was ever given any real kind of treatment. I don't even know what DBT is.
My parents started sending me to counselors when I was really young. Mostly because I was a pain in the *** for my teachers, and partly because I would get really down on myself for not understanding things in school or not getting along with the other kids.
As an adult, I've pretty much just not been able to cope well emotionally with whatever curve balls life has tossed at me. I've lost any faith I might have ever had towards people with degrees in these fields. In the end they gave me the same advice that ive heard coming from friends and family. So why do i need them?

[technigal]

Here is the link for DBT Self Help, you may find some things there to help you.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by technigal

Here is the link for DBT Self Help, you may find some things there to help you.

errm... not really. All I really found on that page was a bunch of articles filled with psycho-babble that I only half understand and a couple links to some videos that seem to be endorsing some kinda meditation. I guess the meditation thing might work for some people, but I've tried it before and I just feel really stupid doing it. It's silly and I think it's practicality in calming is a bunch of hooey, IMO.

I found something in there that suggested that I eat right and get good sleep and exercise. What if I already do that? If I have an otherwise healthy lifestyle and still feel like crap all the time, what do I do? I sleep fine. I usually get between 6 to 8 hours of sleep a day. I eat healthy and avoid fast food at all costs. I mean, it's disgusting. Why people LIKE it, I don't know. And I don't have a car, so I pretty much walk everywhere I go. Monday thru Friday I walk to school and back. Whenever I'm scheduled to work I walk there too.
On that note, I'm skipping school today. I had a rather embarrassing time yesterday because I nearly broke down crying in the middle of class and I'm a bit embarrassed to go back right now.

Regardless, thank you for taking the time to try and help.

[facingdemons]

Honestly, I'm not sure I can offer you much in the way of advice... but after reading your post, I felt like I needed to respond. I was recently diagnosed BPD, but have been treated for 14 years for depression, anxiety, and misdiagnosed bipolar. I've seen 3 therapists, 3 psychiatric prescribers, and 2 psychiatrists.

I relate to a lot of the things you said. Especially about friends and having a hard time being interested in what most people have to say. I don't really have friends. Oh, I have "friends", acquaintances, co-workers, but I have a very hard time following through with friendships, and maintaining an interest in other people. I get bored very easily, and quite frankly, I don't have patience for ignorance. Yet, I find myself being incredibly lonely... it's an infuriating scenario. I push people away because they bore me, they irritate me, or I'm afraid they'll tire of me first. Then, I'm alone and I hate it.

I spent 6 years in 3 different universities, changed my major 6 times. From Theatre, to Chemistry (pre-med), to Education, to Philosophy, to English, and back to Education. I never did graduate. I don't even have an associate's degree.

I also cut. I have since I was 14 (I'm 29 now). I don't cut as frequently anymore, as it upsets my significant other, but it's there.

(oh, and I'm divorced, but more recently)

I'm not sure what to tell you, other than that you're not alone. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who feels this way, the only one who battles their own mind day after day. It's exhausting. The one thing I've learned since coming to this site is that it's not true. There are other people that feel this way, and it sucks, but sometimes it gets better.

You said, "My problem isn't that no one believes in me. My problem is that I don't believe in myself." I couldn't possibly have said that better myself. I have the tools to succeed, I have the people to support me, I just don't know if I have it in me anymore.

I hope you stick around here. If for nothing else than to get a glimpse into what others have found that works for them, and maybe, just maybe, we find something that works for us.

[UnderTheRose]

The point of the mindfulness (meditation) exercise is to learn to recognize what it feels like to be in a place of mindfulness, to practice being there so that we can bring ourselves back to that place in times of distress. It's something to practice regularly because if one waits to use it in times of stress only, and hasnt practiced it, its not very helpful. (kind of like waiting to drive a car when you need to go somewhere, and not practicing/learning how to drive first -erm.. minus the obvious possible injury, lol)
Getting in touch with the part of us that isn't controlled by emotion, nor is it disconnected by cold logic - there lies the 'wise mind'...
anyhow, thats the premise and yes if you think its a bunch of BS it totally wont work.
I attend DBT. Two hours every week and ill admit I suck with the homework and suck with the mindfulness practice, yet somehow still get something out of it.
Had a 'crisis' on Sunday and amazingly found myself falling to those skills I'm being forced to practice via DBT. (side note, I am 41, very set in my ways, and easily triggered.. yet it still helps me)

[Truth in Ruin]

Originally Posted by cannibalcutie666

errm... not really. All I really found on that page was a bunch of articles filled with psycho-babble that I only half understand and a couple links to some videos that seem to be endorsing some kinda meditation. I guess the meditation thing might work for some people, but I've tried it before and I just feel really stupid doing it. It's silly and I think it's practicality in calming is a bunch of hooey, IMO.

I found something in there that suggested that I eat right and get good sleep and exercise. What if I already do that? If I have an otherwise healthy lifestyle and still feel like crap all the time, what do I do? I sleep fine. I usually get between 6 to 8 hours of sleep a day. I eat healthy and avoid fast food at all costs. I mean, it's disgusting. Why people LIKE it, I don't know. And I don't have a car, so I pretty much walk everywhere I go. Monday thru Friday I walk to school and back. Whenever I'm scheduled to work I walk there too.
On that note, I'm skipping school today. I had a rather embarrassing time yesterday because I nearly broke down crying in the middle of class and I'm a bit embarrassed to go back right now.

Regardless, thank you for taking the time to try and help.

DBT has been proven to work, and it IS the most successful treatment you'll find. You need to humble yourself, it's not silly babble. If therapists are telling you the same thing that friends, and family are- what other sign do you need? Best advice I can give you. Don't be too snobby for DBT. I SUGGEST you give it a REAL go.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by cannibalcutie666

Thank you, Trippin.
You're welcome

I guess the best thing I could say I'm in search of is advice.

• What does one do when even the professionals don't have any answers?

The professionals do have answers, but you need to ask the right ones in order to get them. You need a DBT therapist, because that's the hallmark treatment for BPD. Seeing any other type is like going to a gp for a neurological problem. They're just not equipped with the expertise you need. Their solutions will no doubt fail.

• How can I find purpose when I don't even know what I want? (I've been asking myself for years and I don't think the answer is coming anytime soon)

This one is tricky because its such an individual question. Myself? I've stopped asking what my purpose is because nobody seems to know, least of all me. So I've DECIDED that my purpose is to have the best life I possibly can, and that's what I'm striving toward.

• How do I avoid alienating those that I care about without having to feel like I am having to mute myself?

DBT will teach you that skill, I'm not an expert (I still have to start my course) but I'm pretty sure its part of the mindfulness exercises. Once you become accustomed to a different way of reacting you won't feel muted any longer. Its a way of retraining your brain toward healthier thought patterns and reactions.

• How do I stop feeling like they are leaving me behind by progressing their own lives?

I was struggling with this a few months ago actually. Everyone was moving forward and I seemed so stagnant compared to them. It really didn't help that this translated into them leaving me! The only thing that honestly helped was bringing it up with one of the key players, my cousin who's also one of my best friends. When I told him how I felt, he did a very good job of assuring me that I was not being left behind. He also pointed out how much I've grown and moved forward, and just because it was a different type of growth, set to a different pace, doesn't mean I should overlook it. My convo with him seems to have put that beast to sleep. So I really suggest you tell one or both of your close friends and hear what they have to say. Really listen when they do speak though, because sometimes the messages get lost in waves of emotion.

I'd also like to reiterate at this point that I have seen professionals in the past to no avail, and that I am completely opposed to becoming dependent on medication to be 'normal'.

Nothing can make us normal. Nothing.
When normal is your goal, misery is your constant companion because normal is unattainable.

What we can do is work toward being the best versions of ourselves.

Meds help symptoms in this case. They can decrease the intensity of the BPD experience, but in no way can they fix it because the problem lies mainly within our distorted thought processes and the damage caused by reacting to them. Last time I checked there were no thought correcting meds

I'm bipolar and bpd btw, and I don't do the meds thing.

Again, I hope I have been of some help.

Originally Posted by cannibalcutie666

I guess the meditation thing might work for some people, but I've tried it before and I just feel really stupid doing it. It's silly and I think it's practicality in calming is a bunch of hooey, IMO

Meditation techniques are not set in stone, you can fine tune it to suite your needs. I personally like the relaxation technique I learned from my HS dance teacher. After fine tuning it a bit, it does what I need, and I don't see the point in learning a new technique... not because I feel stupid, although that was the case in the beginning, but because its fking hard work and I like instant gratification!

I found something in there that suggested that I eat right and get good sleep and exercise. What if I already do that? If I have an otherwise healthy lifestyle and still feel like crap all the time, what do I do?

Healthy lifestyle isn't a cure, it just compliments or enhances strategies such as meds and therapy. What do you do in the case of already living healthy, is learn coping skills (like the DBT you shot down).

I'm not taking a shot at you when I say this (I have to type a disclaimer as I may mean well, but don't always pull of diplomacy accurately) but I guess you've not hit your bottom yet.

Like an addict hits theirs and seeks sobriety, so do we, but we seek peace. I don't believe you've reached that point of desperation, and therefore you're not open to suggestion on how to progress.

I will use myself as an example:
After years of vehemently shutting down any and all suggestions to get me to therapy (because I don't like the idea) I hit my bottom when a venomous, deluded BPD fit chased away my bf, who had done me no wrong.

No. That's not when I changed my mind. I still hated the idea.

My bf returned to me 14 months later, that's when I hit desperate. I'm desperate enough. I desperately don't want to chase him off again. I desperately want to learn how to be a good gf. So desperate infact, that despite how uncomfortable the very thought makes me feel, I'm willing to allow a stranger to teach me how to be one.

So desperate that I've been waiting 4 months! And still my initial appointment with the T will only be made in another month!

You haven't reached your point of desperation. You are obviously distressed and seek answers, but until you hit desperation, (or you radically change your perceptions) you will not be open to the type of help that is available.

Originally Posted by facingdemons

I also cut. I have since I was 14 (I'm 29 now). I don't cut as frequently anymore, as it upsets my significant other, but it's there.

That's odd. That's about the same time I did, too.

Originally Posted by facingdemons

I hope you stick around here. If for nothing else than to get a glimpse into what others have found that works for them, and maybe, just maybe, we find something that works for us.

Yeah, I honestly don't really know about that. There doesn't seem to be a great variety of options available, so far. I guess it's good to be hopeful. However, I AM finding myself with an ever increasing surplus of free time as of late.

Originally Posted by UnderTheRose

The point of the mindfulness (meditation) exercise is to learn to recognize what it feels like to be in a place of mindfulness, to practice being there so that we can bring ourselves back to that place in times of distress...
...Getting in touch with the part of us that isn't controlled by emotion, nor is it disconnected by cold logic - there lies the 'wise mind'...

This is beginning to sound like something from Star Wars or Lord Of the Rings. Lol
But in all seriousness, It's all a little too spiritual for me to swallow. A bit too 'Zen'. I've never bought into all that hippie stuff. Like I said before, I just feel very silly trying to do any kind of meditative exercises.

Originally Posted by UnderTheRose

anyhow, thats the premise and yes if you think its a bunch of BS it totally wont work.

nope. Just like magic, I guess you gotta believe to make it real.

Originally Posted by Truth in Ruin

DBT has been proven to work, and it IS the most successful treatment you'll find.

'Faith healing' is alleged by many people to work as well, and I don't believe in that either.

Originally Posted by Truth in Ruin

You need to humble yourself, it's not silly babble. If therapists are telling you the same thing that friends, and family are- what other sign do you need? Best advice I can give you. Don't be too snobby for DBT. I SUGGEST you give it a REAL go.

Not everyone's minds act and react the same way, with or without BPD. I'm sure that for every one person that can say it works for them, there are handfuls that can say it doesn't. I'll give it a real go when DBT doesn't involve me picturing myself drinking in serenity, or myself as a tree, or putting my thoughts into buckets, etc.
The unanimous blurting of therapists, family and friends isn't DBT, btw. What they all eventually tell me is: That I need to focus on myself and do things for myself. They tell me not to live my life comparing myself to others. They tell me I need to do things that make me happy.
This is all fine and well and very sound advice... except, I don't know what I want. I don't know what makes me happy. I have no personal standard of achievment, so I don't have anything to go by other than the examples of those around me.
However, I can readily list all the things I don't like and don't want to do. Unfortunately, after I cross off all the things and situations I don't care for I'm pretty much left with no feasible options.

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

I'm not taking a shot at you when I say this (I have to type a disclaimer as I may mean well, but don't always pull of diplomacy accurately) but I guess you've not hit your bottom yet.
Like an addict hits theirs and seeks sobriety, so do we, but we seek peace. I don't believe you've reached that point of desperation, and therefore you're not open to suggestion on how to progress...
...You haven't reached your point of desperation. You are obviously distressed and seek answers, but until you hit desperation, (or you radically change your perceptions) you will not be open to the type of help that is available.

Yeah, totally. Sooo... what's worse than an attempted suicide? Because if that wasn't bottom, I'm not sure what qualifies. And all presumptions aside, I don't believe in anything as definitive as 'hitting bottom'. That concept is a bit too concrete in a life without direction.
On a cynical note: Not all addicts seek sobriety. Most addicts don't even know what they are, and sometimes it kills them.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by cannibalcutie666

Yeah, totally. Sooo... what's worse than an attempted suicide? Because if that wasn't bottom, I'm not sure what qualifies. And all presumptions aside, I don't believe in anything as definitive as 'hitting bottom'. That concept is a bit too concrete in a life without direction.

Attempted suicide is unfortunately part of our reality. Its not really "special" its very common actually. I've had 3 attempts (maybe more) and they didn't lead me to desperation, they just made me feel like a bigger failure

Those attempts didn't count as my bottom, they were attempts at escaping this reality permanently.

Losing someone I love did however lead me to desperately want a good life. So no, suicide isn't automatically the rock bottom I spoke of. The rock bottom I mean is the one that leads you to be open to change. I would eat toilet paper if there was even a remote chance it ensures the success of my relationship.

As I've pointed out, you have not reached your bottom, suicide attempt or no, you're obviously too close minded to have hit the bottom I spoke of... Thing is, nobody knows where that point is, you find it when it kicks you in the face.

On a cynical note: Not all addicts seek sobriety. Most addicts don't even know what they are, and sometimes it kills them.

On a pedantic note, I said An addict.

[Truth in Ruin]

I am aware that your family/friends, and therapists were NOT talking about DBT, hint: you've meantioned that you've never heard of it. That's not the point. The point is its not rocket science, even people that are not professionals see the same thing. And here we have people (with more knowledge about BPD mind you) trying to give you insight, and instead of trying to learn, you'd rather debate. Good luck, you need too much of it.

[facingdemons]

Stop! This isn't helping and it's I'm pretty sure that this site wasn't created to attack people for disagreeing!

You all have valid points. But who gets to judge someone else's "rock bottom"? At what point do we tell someone else what they feel isn't valid? How dare you invalidate someone when you hurt so much from those who have invalidated you?

DBT has been successful. But not for everybody. If there was a catch all cure, this forum would cease to be a necessity.

[Trippin2.0]

Nobody was attacking or invalidating anyone here.

I don't get it, when the OP of any thread disagrees or debates its acceptable behaviour, but when the members trying to respond in helpful ways disagree and debates or even just challenges the OP in response, its invalidating and unsupportive?

Double standard much?

Orrr maybe we're here to agree with everyone regardless, because only agreeing is supportive and disagreeing is invalidating. Maybe I should agree with former addicts that sobriety is too hard, maybe they should rather relapse. Maybe I should agree that leaving an abusive partner is too scary, people should just stay and get beaten to a pulp. Maybe I should agree that unicorns poop rainbows and oncoming traffic is harmless so people can just enjoy psychosis.

Yeah, no. Challenging someone isn't automatically invalidating them, be careful not to project.

Oh and about rock bottom? Yes its obviously subjective, because everyone's is different, but they all have one thing in common, the outcome.

So I was again, NOT invalidating the OP. Did you fail to read the part where I've been suicidal myself? Where I've attempted to end my life? Why would I invalidate that amount of pain? Am I just so bored and have nothing better to do with my time?

No. I'm here to gain and give support. And I'm sorry but support doesn't always come wrapped in kittens and cotton candy.

[facingdemons]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Nobody was attacking or invalidating anyone here.

I don't get it, when the OP of any thread disagrees or debates its acceptable behaviour, but when the members trying to respond in helpful ways disagree and debates or even just challenges the OP in response, its invalidating and unsupportive?

Double standard much?

Orrr maybe we're here to agree with everyone regardless, because only agreeing is supportive and disagreeing is invalidating. Maybe I should agree with former addicts that sobriety is too hard, maybe they should rather relapse. Maybe I should agree that leaving an abusive partner is too scary, people should just stay and get beaten to a pulp. Maybe I should agree that unicorns poop rainbows and oncoming traffic is harmless so people can just enjoy psychosis.

Yeah, no. Challenging someone isn't automatically invalidating them, be careful not to project.

Oh and about rock bottom? Yes its obviously subjective, because everyone's is different, but they all have one thing in common, the outcome.

So I was again, NOT invalidating the OP. Did you fail to read the part where I've been suicidal myself? Where I've attempted to end my life? Why would I invalidate that amount of pain? Am I just so bored and have nothing better to do with my time?

No. I'm here to gain and give support. And I'm sorry but support doesn't always come wrapped in kittens and cotton candy.

Sure. And if the advice and support HAD been entirely helpful, I wouldn't have said a thing. But telling another member how much they need help? And in the way it was said? (yes, I realize that wasn't you. My post wasn't directed at an individual.) However, you did imply clearly that you were able to judge someone else's concept of desperation.

I am most certainly not suggesting that being helpful is synonymous with being nice. Sometimes what people need to hear sucks. But there is a difference between being direct and making assumptions.

obviously you can do and say whatever you want. I was just pointing out that if I was reading those replies, all it would have done is make me resent the ideas even more. But, what do I know?

Originally Posted by Trippin 2.0

Attempted suicide is unfortunately part of our reality. Its not really "special" its very common actually.

I never meant to imply that I thought that event made me unique.

Originally Posted by Trippin 2.0

Losing someone I love did however lead me to desperately want a good life. So no, suicide isn't automatically the rock bottom I spoke of. The rock bottom I mean is the one that leads you to be open to change. I would eat toilet paper if there was even a remote chance it ensures the success of my relationship.
As I've pointed out, you have not reached your bottom, suicide attempt or no, you're obviously too close minded to have hit the bottom I spoke of... Thing is, nobody knows where that point is, you find it when it kicks you in the face.

Good for you. Not everyone has a prince charming to show them the light. Obviously, I'm too close minded to understand that I will lose everyone close to me if I keep on this way. Or maybe I'm too ignorant to realize that I've grown too damaged to let on anymore responsibility for maintaining the friends I have left. Or maybe, just maybe, I've grown so tired of dealing with the answers life has given me so far that I decided to reach out to an online forum of all places. Only to discover the same brick wall responses I get IRL.

Originally Posted by Truth in Ruin

I am aware that your family/friends, and therapists were NOT talking about DBT, hint: you've meantioned that you've never heard of it. That's not the point. The point is its not rocket science, even people that are not professionals see the same thing. And here we have people (with more knowledge about BPD mind you) trying to give you insight, and instead of trying to learn, you'd rather debate. Good luck, you need too much of it.

And MY point is that the answers they are giving me don't mean anything without the premise to even begin to undertake them. I do not have the means to do what they suggest. It's that simple. Damn... I feel like a broken record, here.
To that end, I don't have the means to do this DBT thing. It's like asking me to believe in Santa Clause again. I just can't bring myself to believe in it. The concept is too laughable. I'm sure it's great for lots of people. It's just not a concept that I'm able to follow.

Originally Posted by facingdemons

...I was just pointing out that if I was reading those replies, all it would have done is make me resent the ideas even more...

yep. you're pretty much right on that account. If I thought it was a silly idea before, now I just think it's stupid. Shoving something in my face as the only means I have does not appeal to my sense of individuality.
I'd like to point out that when the idea of DBT was first suggested, I gave my opinion and said "thank you". I figured that would be the end of it. I have now gotten more responses about defending an option I already dislike, and I feel as if my original intention has been derailed.

Again, thank you all for your time. Hopefully, I can find some other means by which to cope.

[Angel of Bedlam]

Originally Posted by cannibalcutie666

I never meant to imply that I thought that event made me unique.

Good for you. Not everyone has a prince charming to show them the light. Obviously, I'm too close minded to understand that I will lose everyone close to me if I keep on this way. Or maybe I'm too ignorant to realize that I've grown too damaged to let on anymore responsibility for maintaining the friends I have left. Or maybe, just maybe, I've grown so tired of dealing with the answers life has given me so far that I decided to reach out to an online forum of all places. Only to discover the same brick wall responses I get IRL.

And MY point is that the answers they are giving me don't mean anything without the premise to even begin to undertake them. I do not have the means to do what they suggest. It's that simple. Damn... I feel like a broken record, here.
To that end, I don't have the means to do this DBT thing. It's like asking me to believe in Santa Clause again. I just can't bring myself to believe in it. The concept is too laughable. I'm sure it's great for lots of people. It's just not a concept that I'm able to follow.

yep. you're pretty much right on that account. If I thought it was a silly idea before, now I just think it's stupid. Shoving something in my face as the only means I have does not appeal to my sense of individuality.
I'd like to point out that when the idea of DBT was first suggested, I gave my opinion and said "thank you". I figured that would be the end of it. I have now gotten more responses about defending an option I already dislike, and I feel as if my original intention has been derailed.

Again, thank you all for your time. Hopefully, I can find some other means by which to cope.

You have no faith on yourself or in methods that are PROVEN to work. If you have no faith in yourself to get better... why are you here? Do you want to get better? Or are you just looking for a place to vent? Either is fine, but you sound as if you're trying tp imply DBT is beneath you. I don't believe in Santa Clause, and DBT is so helpful for me. I also don't like the fact that you are condescending in your replies, especially to people who responded to you trying to offer you solutions.

I have dealt with much of the trauma you are. I have alienated myself, cut, burned, scratched... these are common with BPD. If you need help, open your mind. It seems your feeding into thoughts of self-doubt. DBT works to help you change those.

I will also admit that not all aspects of DBT are helpful to me. It's hard for me to meditate but, distress tolerance is wonderful. Maybe not everything will work, but something is better than nothing, right?

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Originally Posted by Angel of Bedlam

You have no faith on yourself or in methods that are PROVEN to work. If you have no faith in yourself to get better... why are you here?

I'm not sure, tbh. I guess maybe i was looking for something that would make some sense to me. As it stands, I'm still looking.

Originally Posted by Angel of Bedlam

Do you want to get better? Or are you just looking for a place to vent? Either is fine, but you sound as if you're trying tp imply DBT is beneath you.

Don't we all want to get better? As for venting, I don't know about that. But I do know that everyone I already talk to is tired of hearing about my problems over and over.

Originally Posted by Angel of Bedlam

I also don't like the fact that you are condescending in your replies, especially to people who responded to you trying to offer you solutions.

Well, I didn't start off that way. However, when I get my nose rubbed in something, I tend to not like that. At that point I'm not going to be as nice in my responses.

Originally Posted by Angel of Bedlam

... If you need help, open your mind. It seems your feeding into thoughts of self-doubt. DBT works to help you change those.

And how exactly does one do that? Is there a button that says 'Open Mind'? The fact of the matter is that I simply do not believe in mental prep exercises, in meditation, the clearing of the mind, the whole concept of inner peace is just unfathomable to me. How does one open up to that when it is so fundamentally alien?
I don't want to change who I am. It took a lot of time and effort for me to accept myself (for the most part), and that's a struggle that I'm not going to null by going back on. I don't like the way I have to deal with the world and how it effects me. I just want to get along in life without compromising myself in the process. I lost myself before and it was nearly the end of me. I don't intend to relapse that by trying to change how I think and feel.

...it seems the more I respond to everyone here, the more lost and isolated I feel.

[Starling.]

I haven't read the whole thread, apologies.

I just wanted to say that sometimes things help even when you don't expect them to. I think a lot of the time people go into therapy thinking it's a load of rubbish. When I started CBT I thought it was a waste of time - why would I want to change my ways of thinking when I was so convinced they were right? But it still ended up helping an awful lot. So maybe you don't have to convince yourself that DBT/whatever is a good plan, maybe you just have to 'act as if' it might be and you might be surprised. And if not, at least you tried. I also think that not everything will be applicable - that's fine. Use the bits that might be. You don't necessarily have to discount DBT as a whole because you don't like to meditate.

It doesn't have to be DBT. It might be the go-to therapy for BPD but you're right, it isn't helpful for everyone. I don't know how helpful I would find it, but I have found CBT very useful in the past. I have also known people with BPD who have found other types of therapy very useful - MBT, CAT, schema therapy. You are an individual and you will have to find out what works for you. But maybe try not to give up on things before giving them a go. It doesn't even have to be therapy. I have found that things I have done and discovered for myself have been more helpful than therapy. There's lots out there that might help.

[Painting w/t Soul]

Hi Cutie welcome and I am glad you are here.

I'm also very new and coming to grips with the work ahead.You said you are looking for something that makes sense and I hope this might help as a logical reasoning of one of the used processes. I am sure there are members here who can help you a great deal more given their experiences and I hope they will help me out if I get something wrong.*Please be kind*

Please bare with me as I used the Santa Claus imagery as a very visually influenced person.

Would you mind if I ask you a couple of questions that might help? Something more along the lines of the north pole as opposed to Santa Claus, real but presented in a new light?

When we were younger we used to love and giddily await the very concept of santa-arrival ,magical travel, a gift special to you, absolute validation. Feelings you didn't have to justify- they were just real and you still remember them today. As we grew, the concept changed as we rationalised the idea, but even the newly rationalised concept still had attached feelings, albeit different or even the absolute lack thereof.

In the end it boiled down to the rationalisation of a belief you held and at the very least, the affirmation of your existence.For without you, you could not be affected. We all tend to come to a point where we realise that a believe we hold could be wrong as it seems to be shrouded in the wrong emotions and it keeps hurting us.Resulting in an openness and willingness to change to understand and change the unbearable.

Santa never seems to give you your present himself-maybe he doesn't like me?Depending on your rationalisation you could easily change the new concept of no santa and attach abandonment to it.The idea and attachment may have formed before you even fully realised and understood the concept of no santa.In the end we tend to break the attachments given the absolute knowledge of the extent of the new concept and reassess our conclusions and their resulting triggered feelings.

What if absolute knowledge of the extent of a concept wasn't possible given the complexity of an entire personality.You would struggle with one particular issue immensely:Your mind to you is made of logical conclusions/rationalisations, but they seem to contradict the reality you are experiencing, causing you pain.

These rationalisations could be at such a core level that they self propagate into all aspects of your life, even seemingly unrelated issues causing triggers.In the example above, why did I even think santa didn't like me.Something so irrational but so true. For example: why are you okay if your friends leave your house to go to the store quickly , but if it takes longer than you expected, it could be because...

You want answers to the questions only you would know cause they are your rationalisations-that's why its easy to discount others as not knowing what you are going through and you would be right- only you are fighting those rationalisations but feelings in themselves are a defining universal human attribute and necessary affirmation thereof(lets forget about intensity and cyclical feedback-just for now- assume a perfect ability to just experience an emotion until it passes without any other cumulative effect or input, as if the world stopped to allow you to experience it alone to its fullest extent). Even if I was magically able to give you the answers, it would probably be a single recurring truth and one you wouldn't want to hear. We heal by working on ourselves.

As I understand it the best we can do is to challenge our rationalisations based on the rationalisations of others, which could show us a better/"normal" rationalisation and associated response?A sort of absolute openness to change-which will challenge your triggers constantly the closer it gets to the true cause.

Just as an example: As per your opening post, every post in this thread is an exact contradiction to the believe that no one would have a legitimate interest in you, when every post is written specifically based on your concerns. Even if it is only BPD related, it is still for you and in defense of you. Absolute strangers as of yet, capable of these acts, holding you as interesting and wanting to respond.Do they need to be rationalised as anything different that could cause you pain?

I really hope this helped and please forgive me if you've heard the approach already.

[Angel of Bedlam]

Originally Posted by cryingchild

If you'll count my tears
You will see my fears-
Fears of every word and deed.
If you'll feel my pain
You'll become insane.
You'll cut yourself until you'll bleed.
If you'll walk in my shoes
You'll see there's nothing to lose
But a worthless aching soul.
If you'll feed my heart
you will fall apart.
You'll know why I lost control.

Cry with me everyday,
Die with me every night.
Say what i always say:
"I will be alright!"

But I'm not an angel,
And god doesn't love me.
I'm not an angel.
No one's thinking of me.

If you'll think my thoughts
You'll see evil dots
Inside my twisted mind.
If you'll look through my eyes
At the mirror that lies...
Maybe I'm better off blind!

I hate myself everyday
Lets see you hate yourself every night!
Say with me what I must say:
"I can win this fight!"

But I'm not an angel
And I cannot save myself.
How can I undo
All the things that I gave myself?

We hate ourselves everyday,
We die alone every night.
We say what we learned to say:
"We are all alright!"

But we are not angels
And god doesn't love us.
There are no angels
Flying above us.
No, we are not angels
And no one can save us.
No one can undo
All the things that they gave us.

All I'm saying is your refusal to accept suggestions and truly helpful solutions to managing DBT could be part of what makes you feel isolated. Personally, I am probably one of THE LAST people you'd expect to do meditation or those exercises... I always identified myself as a ditzy, bubbly, punker (it's a weird combo, I know). When I first started doing DBT, I didn't think it would really help, but I tried it anyway. Typically, our lives as BPDer's are riddled with patterns of misery. Even though these patterns make us MISERABLE, we continue them because there is comfort in the familiar. I was sick of the pattern, so I tried to be active in my recovery. I actively reminded myself every day that these things were new (and seemed weird), but I was going to keep an open mind. There's no switch, there's a choice. You have to choose whether you're going to break your pattern. Recovery from BPD is an ACTIVE, NOT PASSIVE process. It takes a great push from within to recover. To me, it seems like you point the finger at this person, that person, and those people too, when your recovery needs to start WITHIN. Simply stated, it's a choice. No one is saying to change who you are, but pushing YOU to change the pattern you've set yourself in. Whatever you do from here is on you.

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[Angel of Bedlam]

Originally Posted by cannibalcutie666

I'm not sure, tbh. I guess maybe i was looking for something that would make some sense to me. As it stands, I'm still looking.

Don't we all want to get better? As for venting, I don't know about that. But I do know that everyone I already talk to is tired of hearing about my problems over and over.

Well, I didn't start off that way. However, when I get my nose rubbed in something, I tend to not like that. At that point I'm not going to be as nice in my responses.

And how exactly does one do that? Is there a button that says 'Open Mind'? The fact of the matter is that I simply do not believe in mental prep exercises, in meditation, the clearing of the mind, the whole concept of inner peace is just unfathomable to me. How does one open up to that when it is so fundamentally alien?
I don't want to change who I am. It took a lot of time and effort for me to accept myself (for the most part), and that's a struggle that I'm not going to null by going back on. I don't like the way I have to deal with the world and how it effects me. I just want to get along in life without compromising myself in the process. I lost myself before and it was nearly the end of me. I don't intend to relapse that by trying to change how I think and feel.

...it seems the more I respond to everyone here, the more lost and isolated I feel.

Quoted wrong person, see above post.

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