[shakespeare47]

I hope it's okay if I refer to myself as former military, lol. I was in the Navy reserves for 8 years as a reservist Seabee. I went on one 8 month active-duty deployment to Kuwait (6 months in Kuwait) in 2007. It was mostly just boring. Seabees are the construction workers of the Navy, and I never saw any action.

I had some pretty nasty mind games played on me by my fellow reservists. That's part of the reason I decided not to re-enlist.

I sometimes wonder if I did something to deserve the treatment I got, or if it's just that some people are just jerks.... And I still speculate as to how I could have handled it differently....

Here's one instance.
So, we're at a range, shooting a really cool weapon, a Mk 19 grenade launcher machine gun. And between shooting, people are just bs-ing. Someone says "hey there's a caribou on the range". I don't see a caribou... but, other people are saying "yeah, I see it". I'm just half-listening, trying to mind my own business. Someone comes up to me a day later, and asks if anything interesting happened at the range yesterday. I say, so and so said they saw a caribou on the range. They laugh at me like they think I'm an idiot. I don't react.. I just stand and listen.

So, I think if it happened today, I might have explained how strange it was that some people are seeing invisible caribou, and suggested that perhaps they might want to have their heads examined.

I certainly wouldn't want to go to war with someone who I either couldn't trust to tell me the truth, or was seeing things.

[ifst5]

I'm not ex-military but both my Parents are. From what i know, it takes a certain sort of person to be involved in such a environment. I think it's fair to say that a lot of the roles are best suited to those who are strong team players; which usually requires a very thick skin/extrovertism. I know that it's definitely not a career i'd want. But that's fine - i have other strengths as most likely you do too. I would move on from this recollection as best you can...one way of looking at it would be to ask yourself whether the people who started the incident would still be thinking about it? Most likely not...you deserve that sort of peace too. All the best.

[shakespeare47]

^Thanks... I also noticed that people who are always reacting and messing with other people tended to do well. I'm definitely more of an introvert.

The unspoken message I got from this and other similar experiences is "we expect people to call each other on ********... always.. right away... even if you aren't sure whether or not it really is ********".

That lifestyle and mentality is not for me.

[regretful]

You are absolutely former military...I was on active duty in the Navy during the late 80's. When depression first hit me, a friend of mine, who served in Vietnam, suggested that I go to the Vet's Center in the town I lived in. It took a lot for me to go there because I didn't feel like a "real" Vet because I was never in combat...what eventually got me to go was my friend asking me, "what country's Navy did you serve in?"...

As for the games, I think I was party to a couple of similar things when I was first at sea. It was not the career path for me (though now at nearly 50, I see why people would stay in for being able to retire at this age)...Anyhow, games like the one you mentioned pass the time, I suppose, but I usually did not like them either.

Best to you...

[shakespeare47]

^Hey, regretful, thank you for the sentiment. Among civilians, when I refer to myself as former military, and a reservist, some come right out and say "reservists aren't real military", and make me feel awkward when I refer to myself as a veteran. One person suggested more than said that I should not consider myself to be a veteran just because I was a reservist, this was while I was explaining that I was going to back to school on the GI Bil.

Some people just don't get it. I gave up a big part of my life, and accepted the fact that I might have to die for my country... and not everyone even appreciates that, or understands. I was away from my wife for 11 months 1 year, because of the military.

I did get some benefits. I went to school for a year to learn a trade, and the GI Bill paid for half my schooling.

And not everyone in the military is the same. I did meet a feel cool people, but they were few and far between.

And Regretful? I want to thank you for your service to our country!

[shakespeare47]

Just because I'm tired of it being an issue...

According to the Center for Veteran Enterprises of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in concurrence with U.S.C Title 38, a reservist attains veteran status when he or she has been called to active duty and serves in an active duty capacity for a 60 day timeframe.

[nicoleflynn]

I was in the Women's Army Corps and proud to serve my Country. Sounds like that ("caribou" remark) was a code for something? Putting something over on you...some kind of weird joke....inside joke, Strange.

[shakespeare47]

^ nah... they were just making like they saw an animal on the range... and kept talking about how they wandered onto the range sometimes... yada yada yada. And I actually don't remember what exact animal they mentioned... some type of large deer that could have been in that area. Caribou is close enough.

But, yeah, they were putting something over on me... and it was a setup.

[dwfieldjr]

I was in the army for four years. All male unit so I know a lot about head games. Those guys were just being trying to be funny.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shakespeare47]

^ it didn't feel funny to me. It felt like an abusive head-game specifically designed to make me feel bad about myself. If they had later used it as a way to make me feel welcome, then yeah, it might have been okay. As it was, it was just a nasty thing to do.

I understand that people play games.. I see examples of that in sit-coms and movies... But, when it happens to you... and there is no happy resolution... it isn't much fun.

Someone with a different personality might have been able to work the situation to their advantage, but I'm usually clueless to those other possible reactions.

[woundedsoul]

I was a cop in the AF, and we used to make up stupid games while we were sitting out on post to make the time go by faster. You wouldn't believe have the crap that we have done during training, and while on duty. On our way to post one day, we were on our bus, and we actually handcuffed one of the girls to the rails that run along the ceiling of the bus. What really made it funny was that she was only abut 4'9 and had to stand on the seat to reach that high up. Then we couldn't get her down because the guy's key didn't work. Took forever to find one that did. I don't think that it was directed towards you. In the military, you have a bunch of people that are extroverts. Then you have a few introverts who may feel uncomfortable. But, I'm sure that they were just being stupid and trying to pass the time, so i wouldn't give any more thought to, even though it may be difficult for you not to. I known how hard it is to let go of things that bother you. I've been holding on to things my whole life, but it's better to let them go if you can.

[glok]

Hello, woundedsoul. I do not see anything amusing about what you did to that girl. I wonder what the Code of Military Justice had to say about such maladjusted behavior?

[shakespeare47]

^We were always doing training in the Navy reserves. It was in the form of reading and test-taking online. We had to prove that we had read the material, and understood it.
Some of the specific topics were, drug and alcohol abuse. Sexual harassment was another topic. Human trafficking (don't see prostitutes, especially in foreign countries).

Oh, yeah. Hazing.. it's wrong... don't do it.
There is a huge disconnect in what the military is trying to teach it's members about what is right and what is wrong.. and what actually happens. Hazing was actually winked at in my command. Most of my fellow Seabees (at least the vocal ones) didn't take the training seriously, and blatantly ignored much of what they were supposed to be learning. They would just copy each others answers and get through the training as quickly as they could. Then continue their problem behaviors (hazing, sexual harassment and abuse, etc.) with a cavalier attitude.

and my experience on the range was just the most obvious story I can tell right now.

and I suspect, knowing some of the guys the way I do, that if I were to see one of them now, there's a good chance they will bring up some instance like the range, or something else... because that's what they do. I'm ready for it. I think I'll just feign ignorance.

I don't miss them much. and I have too many good things going on in my life to give it much thought, most days. But, there's some ****ed up **** going on in the world... and people need to be made aware.

[dwfieldjr]

I know it wasn't funny I just trying to say why they were doing it. I'm not trying to beat up on you.
In the military people are like that with each other especially when there's a new guy in the group. And your right it is abusive. I had alot of bad things done to me as well, very humiliating things.
I think I'm still angry about it. But you just have to try and not let it ruin your life.

[dwfieldjr]

Just try to be happy and put it behind you.

[dwfieldjr]

R u still in

[shakespeare47]

Well, a lot of the issues I saw and had, was when I had been in for several years, not that it makes any difference. And I'm rather angry that although the military is trying to change it's image, or at least they're going through the motions to try and make people believe they're trying to change their image.. many in the military aren't taking it seriously. and that's a problem. And the people in the command I was in, should probably watch their step. There have been times when this type of crap comes to the attention of the media, and then all hell will break loose- and I'm not talking about the incident on the range, that's child's play.. I'm talking about the general attitude, and certain problem people, and the fact that the command knew about these problem people and what they were doing, but didn't do anything about it.

I got out about 3 years ago.

And on the other hand... perhaps I did some things, and displayed some attitudes that made those around me decide that I got what I deserved.... I don't know.. I tend to think that some of the things that happened to me can't be justified.

[dwfieldjr]

No they can't be justified and who knows maybe those guys are getting there's somewhere. But your out now so you don't have to worry about them anymore. Do u have a job now or are you in college?

[shakespeare47]

I own my own business. I'm also taking some classes to finish up my B.S. in Mechanical Engineering, even though I'm in my mid-40's.

[dwfieldjr]

That's good your keeping busy

[woundedsoul]

Well, glok, I'm not the one that actually did the handcuff ingredients myself, and seeing that she found it amusing herself, I guess she wasn't that worried about it. I too am a female, and the problem here is, when you are a female in a male dominated field, anyone will tell you that you can't take yourself too seriously. If you do, you are just setting yourself up for them to make your life heck. And no, of course there's certain things that nobody has to put up with, I'm not saying that, but we did all joke with each other, nobody hurt anyone. And if if did get out of hand, our chain of command would get involved and people would get in trouble. Now, I can't remember if the guys got in trouble for the handcuffing incident, but I know we all got in trouble for not having any radio dicipline, and we all had to go to driving school because of all the truck the guys kept destroying. Hahahaha. I know, some of you guys may not find things funny, but when your working 12 hr shifts, 6 days on 3 days off, and then they" volunteer" you to work 2 of your days off because they are under manned, or for the air show (16 hr days), you have to find something to laugh about. Because your job sure isn't enjoyable! You're thinking it's going to drive you crazy, especially since you can't even pay your bills, or feed your family on what you make.

[shakespeare47]

^hi woundedsoul.. that's very different than my experience at the range, and other behaviors I saw and experienced.

You're talking about joking around. If the person who was hand-cuffed was joking around like it was all in good fun, and they all got along, I have a hard time finding fault with what went on... the command might think differently, I don't know. Like I said, if someone had let me know that my experience at the range was all in good fun, I would have responded differently. That's not what happened.

It wasn't like all my experiences were bad. I remember a time when I was being jokingly harassed for something, I responded with something like "why do you have to get up in my grill like that? Are you trying to flip my burger?" They all laughed, and thought my response was just hilarious, and remembered it later... that was kinda fun.

Another time, one of the other guys expressed concern about the fact that we had a prematurely born daughter die. That was pretty cool of him.

They weren't all bad.

Having fun and joking around with your friends is one thing.... hazing and nasty mind games are another.

But, some of my responses in this matter may be confusing. I spent drill weekends with my unit and got to know them pretty well. I got along with most of those guys.. when we were getting ready to deploy to Kuwait, we were split up and put with other units... I didn't really know the guys at the range.. I may have seen them around a few times..., but they weren't the same guys I spent my drill weekends with. I don't know.. I'm going back to wondering if I brought it on myself...or maybe I didn't.... and people, whether or not they are in the military have no justification for playing nasty mind games.

[dwfieldjr]

I was going to say somthing but I miss understood.

[dwfieldjr]

Flipping burgers I'll have to remember that. Lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Teacake]

Shakespeare,

They were testing you. They probably saw some slight difference about you, maybe dissociation or spaciness, and as people do, they needed to know more. Think about it. It someone is a little spaced out, you want to know if that person is insane, or hotbot suggestible (spacy people are) or hiding some real problem. So you throw an imaginary caribou at them. If they see it, you run them out unless you need to use them in some way.

This kind of behavior is instinctual and unconscious. It has a positive intention. They probably werent being bad to you as much as needing to understand how and why you were different. Since you are hear, it is likely they locked up on bod/nos traits or childhood psychological injury. Some bpd/npd tools are pretty chaotic and toxic, so the traits themselves set off alarms in some people with a history of abuse by a npd/bpd. I've seen incredible group behavior surrounding a dissociative borderline who was doing nothing wrong.

Hope that helped.