[GenCat]

Another interesting article I found. Not sure what to think.

http://gettinbetter.com/anatomy.html

[1776]

Say, that was an interesting read. Thanks for posting.

[waiting4]

Oh for the love of god! Sorry...I think that's pap.

And the FIRST time I've heard that Borderline Personalities need Narcissistic supply.

ffs

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by GenCat

Another interesting article I found. Not sure what to think.

IF LOOKS COULD KILL - Anatomy of a Borderline

i thought it was pretty interesting i saw a lot of myself in it, it had a negative slant towards the end but gave what i thought was a pretty accurate description of myself for the most part..some of the things towards the end were kinda off base but for the most part it made me think.

I can see how one would think BPD's need supply, I know I need constant reassurance that I am loved when in a relationship. I guess that's a kind of supply?

Having said that though I still refuse to read anything by Ms Schreiber. I'm not weeding through all the BPD hate just to find her occasional gem.

[clairelisbeth]

jeez....what a stigmatizing and (largely) inaccurate article! And....lack of empathy? Totally incorrect......

[Starlana]

Originally Posted by clairelisbeth

jeez....what a stigmatizing and (largely) inaccurate article! And....lack of empathy? Totally incorrect......

I totally agree with you.

Okay, I couldn't help myself. This website is a special type of self torture for me lol

Anyways I found this and I think it says a lot about Ms Schreiber's mindset when it comes to BPD:

Q. What's the name for a disorder where you have no remorse?
A. Borderline Personality Disorder is the first that comes to mind--although there are others, such as Narcissistic Personality, Antisocial Personality, etc. Essentially, anyone who grows up wounded or damaged, and hasn't acquired enough ego strength to recognize/own their errors and shortcomings, would fit under this umbrella.

This woman thinks no remorse and the first thing that comes to mind is BPD? While ASPD in which a lack of remorse is considered a defining factor and is part of the diagnostic criteria is relegated to a passing thought.

She finds reason to harp on BPD's in a rather large amount of her articles which are supposed to be on other topics.

I think she has issues with BPD's that unfortunately colour her 'professional' advice.

Even the people of BPD family are less than enthused with her:

http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/i...c=148844.0;all

Which online resources are reputable and which are not?

She also seems to have issues with lesbians.

Sorry to harp on this myself but I finally found the article I was looking for: TOO CLOSE FOR COMFORT - The Neurology of Love and Loss in Borderline Personalities

In it she admits she was wrong in her approach to BPD although in some nicely avoidant words:

My personal bias has always been to view BPD primarily from a core trauma perspective, and that's how I'd (unwittingly) worked with borderline personality clients long before I knew about this disorder. In hindsight, my efforts were successful in bringing about healing and growth--but the work spanned many years, and there were frequent setbacks and regressions.

Right there she essentially says most of her other articles with their basis in core trauma are not entirely correct.

Is also interesting to note she is somewhat behind most other professionals in accepting this view.

[Lauliza]

I thought this was very interesting, actually. Some of what she writes could have less of a nasty slant, but from what I've learned much of this is accurate of true sufferers of BPD. Many in the field think the diagnosis is given out far too often. From what I've experienced and learned, many people have BPD traits. But to be diagnosed accurately as having BPD, it takes a lot - and the behavior is usually extreme.

A lot of women with Aspergers and ADHD are misdiagnosed as BPD. It's easy since they share traits like emotional dysregulation, apparent lack of empathy, inability to connect emotionally and poor judgement to name a few. After reading an article like this it can be devastating to the self esteem of some people who share characteristics and are struggling. There's a need for clinicians who can look deeper than behaviors that have become so synonymous with the disorder that the term is tossed around very loosely "oh, she's so borderline...". It really does a disservice to so many people.

[Lefty_Mac]

Dude, I've done my homework - and certainly MUCH less here on the internet but rather with books given to me by my psychiatrist, and the EXTENSIVE library my mother has on psychiatry (she's a pediatrician but was the director of a care center for mentally ill children back in 87-90) and I have a word to describe that woman: QUACK. I quit reading it two paragraphs into it. Her amateurish perspective is certainly of someone that simply majored in Psychiatry -AND NOTHING ELSE.

I am appalled actually by that article. How judgemental can one be ? I have empathy !!!!!! I am caring!!! If anything we care too ******* much !!!

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Lefty_Mac

Dude, I've done my homework - and certainly MUCH less here on the internet but rather with books given to me by my psychiatrist, and the EXTENSIVE library my mother has on psychiatry (she's a pediatrician but was the director of a care center for mentally ill children back in 87-90) and I have a word to describe that woman: QUACK. I quit reading it two paragraphs into it. Her amateurish perspective is certainly of someone that simply majored in Psychiatry -AND NOTHING ELSE.

I too have done homework, not on the internet. I think it depends on how one is defining the diagnosis of BPD. Like I said, A LOT of women are misdiagnosed with it there are scholarly articles to back this up. I'm not saying this person is an authority, is she even someone of note in the field?

But all you have to do is read the DSM and case studies to get a clear picture. It is very complex and shouldn't be handed out as a diagnosis lightly (nor should anti social PD and a lot of others). Competent psychiatrists and/or therapists do not diagnose children and teenagers with BPD. They could be flagged as a risk for developing it possibly, but not diagnosed with it.

[Lefty_Mac]

It is not very complex - it's probably the MOST difficult disorder to diagnose and treat. In my case, as an example, according to the ICD-10, I have F-60.3, (with F-42.2, F-19.9 (cured and including T-42.4), F-40.1 & 2 and F-32.3. (in layman's terms, OCD, Major Depressive with Psychotic episodes, Multiple drug addiction, Intoxication by benzodiazepinics (suicide attempt with roofies) and ADHD. - but that's ALL just BPD.

[Lefty_Mac]

Oh, I forgot to add social phobia...

[Lauliza]

But BPD, in this country (because you're quoting the ICD-10 I'm assuming youre not in the US), what you just listed are distinct disorders all different from one another, not BPD. Many symptoms can and do overlap with mental and emotional disorders, but BPD isn't a combo of a bunch of different disorders. The symptoms, at least according to the DSM, are pretty specific. It's complex because like you say it's so hard to treat.

Take me for instance, I have social anxiety, GAD, ADD and a mood disorder. I also have some traits consistent with BPD, dependent PD and Avoidant PD. But with all of them it's not enough to be diagnosed. There might be varying levels of degree, but if you really do one of them it's pretty severe.

[Lefty_Mac]

I've certainly didn't mean that I've have these disorders IN ADDICTION to BPD, now did I? Read between the lines. Obviously I was talking about conditions (or traits or whatever) and symptoms of these illnesses as PART OF THE WHOLE PICTURE. NO GOD forbid that I had em ALL - it's practically impossible. Only a fool or a quack like this lady would probably see this and think they are all IN THEIR WHOLE interconnected to BPD - and THAT'S the problem with psychiatrists today; they get a degree and go all willy nilly shooting out wrong diagnoses and treating their patients like lab rats when the NEWEST-MOST-MODERN-TOP-OF-THE-LINE medications available are to them the end all-be all, in roughly 80% of the case due to nothing but PAYOLA between them and the pharmaceutical companies. (yes, I WILL use the term PAYOLA).

And the DSM-IV code in the US? What a f-in JOKE. (no need to say anything about the DSM-V, now do I?)
I hope they update and release the ICD-11 as soon as possible and turn it WORLDWIDE so those TOOLS can learn a thing or two.

I shan't even comment on therapists; they sometimes are the most ignorant, thick-headed know-it-alls that exist. Some of them turn into that ole' 'empathy trick' to make you 'comfortable', some of them are rigid as f---k, yet a WHOLE lot of them are just the same crap, don't know **** from shinola and COULDN'T CARE LESS for you, as long as the money and even FAME comes to them. What a bunch of dimwits.

STUDY MORE, YOU F---ERS!!! If you're gonna 'specialize' in something, DO IT RIGHT. YOU AND YOUR FELLOW DRUG DEALERS (oh, sorry, I meant PSYCHIATRISTS). I don't believe in God, Karma, Fate, whatever, but I certainly believe in LUCK (or bad luck in most of the cases) cos you need it a LOT to find someone competent.

If I could SUE some of the PRICKS that treated me and have their medical and psychologist licenses taken away so THEY NEVER COULD WORK AGAIN, I would - and I WOULD WIN THE LAWSUIT because I've got PLENTY OF PROOF about their misconduct.

Heck, this lady is not even a QUACK, she's an IMBECILE, AMATEUR, MISINFORMED, LAZY, UNSTUDIED, PIECE-OF-**** PRETENDING TO BE A DOCTOR AND PROBABLY A DRUG DEALER JUST AS WELL.

Enough said.

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by BeteNoire

I can see how one would think BPD's need supply, I know I need constant reassurance that I am loved when in a relationship. I guess that's a kind of supply?

Having said that though I still refuse to read anything by Ms Schreiber. I'm not weeding through all the BPD hate just to find her occasional gem.

good point, i agree with that wholeheartedly!

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Lefty_Mac

I've certainly didn't mean that I've have these disorders IN ADDICTION to BPD, now did I? Read between the lines. Obviously I was talking about conditions (or traits or whatever) and symptoms of these illnesses as PART OF THE WHOLE PICTURE. NO GOD forbid that I had em ALL - it's practically impossible. Only a fool or a quack like this lady would probably see this and think they are all IN THEIR WHOLE interconnected to BPD - and THAT'S the problem with psychiatrists today; they get a degree and go all willy nilly shooting out wrong diagnoses and treating their patients like lab rats when the NEWEST-MOST-MODERN-TOP-OF-THE-LINE medications available are to them the end all-be all, in roughly 80% of the case due to nothing but PAYOLA between them and the pharmaceutical companies. (yes, I WILL use the term PAYOLA).

And the DSM-IV code in the US? What a f-in JOKE. (no need to say anything about the DSM-V, now do I?)
I hope they update and release the ICD-11 as soon as possible and turn it WORLDWIDE so those TOOLS can learn a thing or two.

I shan't even comment on therapists; they sometimes are the most ignorant, thick-headed know-it-alls that exist. Some of them turn into that ole' 'empathy trick' to make you 'comfortable', some of them are rigid as f---k, yet a WHOLE lot of them are just the same crap, don't know **** from shinola and COULDN'T CARE LESS for you, as long as the money and even FAME comes to them. What a bunch of dimwits.

STUDY MORE, YOU F---ERS!!! If you're gonna 'specialize' in something, DO IT RIGHT. YOU AND YOUR FELLOW DRUG DEALERS (oh, sorry, I meant PSYCHIATRISTS). I don't believe in God, Karma, Fate, whatever, but I certainly believe in LUCK (or bad luck in most of the cases) cos you need it a LOT to find someone competent.

If I could SUE some of the PRICKS that treated me and have their medical and psychologist licenses taken away so THEY NEVER COULD WORK AGAIN, I would - and I WOULD WIN THE LAWSUIT because I've got PLENTY OF PROOF about their misconduct.

Heck, this lady is not even a QUACK, she's an IMBECILE, AMATEUR, MISINFORMED, LAZY, UNSTUDIED, PIECE-OF-**** PRETENDING TO BE A DOCTOR AND PROBABLY A DRUG DEALER JUST AS WELL.

Enough said.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing at all. Sorry I commented on this.

[Lefty_Mac]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I don't think we're talking about the same thing at all. Sorry I commented on this.

No, I apologize deeply for my lack of manners;, I should have mentioned that the distinct illnesses are co-ocurrent, when you mentioned about BPD not being a combo of them; of course they're not, but symptoms of them DO indeed overlap with BPD - there's nothing accurate that can define BPD and that's why I distrust and disagree with the DSM; in other words, "comorbidities" - that's the term. Therefore a person can definitely have traits of other diseases enough to be included in BPD, but not ALL of the traits. That's just what I was saying.

They simply overlap and to rely on a single set of symptoms to diagnose BPD is just wrong, in my honest opinion. It just so happens, that to treat BPD you should be very careful and study these comorbid symptoms, lest our illness can't be treated well. This thing is no joke and there's a good reason why one should inspect the the ICD just as well as the DSM (in my honest opinion again, not necessary and misleading, but if it's a certified code, then one can indulge himself with it; I don't).

Sorry if you've taken any offense in that, I didn't mean it, that's for sure. My sincere apologies. As for the rest of my rant, I was just angry at Ms. Schreiber's lack of profissionality, which led me to remember about studies and documents and my own experience with equally incompetent therapists and doctors; one thing led to another and then I was in sheer rage; just an usual day in the life of a Borderline Personality Disorder's sufferer, right?

Once again, my deep apologies.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Lefty_Mac

No, I apologize deeply for my lack of manners;, I should have mentioned that the distinct illnesses are co-ocurrent, when you mentioned about BPD not being a combo of them; of course they're not, but symptoms of them DO indeed overlap with BPD - there's nothing accurate that can define BPD and that's why I distrust and disagree with the DSM; in other words, "comorbidities" - that's the term. Therefore a person can definitely have traits of other diseases enough to be included in BPD, but not ALL of the traits. That's just what I was saying.

They simply overlap and to rely on a single set of symptoms to diagnose BPD is just wrong, in my honest opinion. It just so happens, that to treat BPD you should be very careful and study these comorbid symptoms, lest our illness can't be treated well. This thing is no joke and there's a good reason why one should inspect the the ICD just as well as the DSM (in my honest opinion again, not necessary and misleading, but if it's a certified code, then one can indulge himself with it; I don't).

Sorry if you've taken any offense in that, I didn't mean it, that's for sure. My sincere apologies. As for the rest of my rant, I was just angry at Ms. Schreiber's lack of profissionality, which led me to remember about studies and documents and my own experience with equally incompetent therapists and doctors; one thing led to another and then I was in sheer rage; just an usual day in the life of a Borderline Personality Disorder's sufferer, right?

Once again, my deep apologies.

Thank you, and no worries. I wasn't making the connection so was unsure if I had said something that somehow offended you or if I misunderstood.

I do agree that since so many disorders (most actually) are comorbid that it is easy for people to be appear to have BPD. But I am of the opinion that an official BPD diagnosis should be left for those that do fit the exact criteria. Sometimes when you are treated for the individual disorders, the "emotional dysregulation" greatly improves. If you took every teenage girl that appears borderline by some of the extreme things she's done (and I know a few) and looked them 10 years later, the ones that have good support systems often lose those BPD traits. That's why many doctor's won't diagnose a teen with it, because a lot of it can be attributed to adolescence. The same can be said for women women who with Aspergers. Their outbursts can be related to sensory overload and so on. The behavior is related to a neurological issue. If you treat the sensory issues, the behavior changes - at lot (I know from experience). I just feel like the BPD diagnosis is given out too often by doctors who are looking at the whole picture, just the behavior. It might not always matter if the treatment is the same and it works but often it doesn't and people suffer because of it. Or worse they can't find anyone willing or able to treat them. The US insurance companies have terrible benefits for people diagnosed soley with personality disorders. So if it's the wrong diagnosis (some of them neurological) it could be so harmful.

Regarding the article, even though some of what she writes might be accurate, this is mostly her opinion. This woman isn't even a licensed therapist, so she has zero credentials. She has a Master of Arts, not science, so I wouldn't pay much attention. You can't take these kind of writings seriously and they are all over the internet. Margaret Linehan is the one person who writes about this BPD that is worth paying attention to. She's really the only authority on the subject, in my opinion.

[Lefty_Mac]

Well, we'll agree to disagree then. The "exact criteria" that you say is, sorry to say, a joke to me. The comorbidities ARE very important because, causing ''emotional dysregulation'', as you've said, is something that's far from being improved upon when you ser on a single set of symptoms that define the illness. My point is not trying to find treatment for the comorbidities, but to find the right therapeutical and psychiatric measures so ALL of them are taken care of, which to me, improves a lot of the picture rather than worsens it.

It's irresponsible for, say, a psychiatrist to focus on the most prevalent traits and try to treat them separately, otherwise - no actually in a good 70% of the cases, indeedly patientsa are crammed either with an excess of medications and the wrong kind of therapy for it; iot's too reckless to do that - one needs to be careful and see the whole picture, otherwise THEN I think the ''emotional dysregulation'' worsens even more. As fewer meds as possible and a therapist competent enough not to be a specialist in BPD - because it's an illusion to think there are authorities on BPD, the way I see it and experienced it. Accuracy standards are the most misleading, appalingly misleading standards that there are. In a certain way, there IS indeed a ''combo'' as you've said of illnesses but nor should they be treated separately, which is a point I agree with you, yet nor they should be taken lightly and tossed aside by the DSM standards. What if the dysregulation happens EXACTLY because the doctor didn't take heed of the otherr traits and follow the ''official diagnosis'' and then neurological and psychiatrical/psychological symptoms are worsened because of it? Ever stopped to think about thst? I believe in NO authorities over the subject, as they in almost ALL of the cases conflict with each others, and certainly BY NO MEANS believe in the DSM. Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree. To me it's an over generalizing, reckless tome of no use in psychiatry. I speak from extensive experience an research too, and I'll have to aologize again, but YES, the DSM is a JOKE.

And I'll stand by my opinions and convictions and unfortunately, there's nothing you can say that will convince me of otherwise. I'm pretty much alone on this as I'm in the southern hemisphere and will refrain to discuss about this from now, as most of you are up north; differenmt mindsets, and different ways of treating it here in Brazil. In fact my therapist and psychiatrist put it very well when they said that those terminologies in the DSM here are naught but mere addendums. It might be very useful, but the way I see it, there's a good reason as to why the 'I' in the ICD stands for International, and I think it's presumptuous and reckless from a group of qualified specialists to think they know better and take the liberty of pissing all over the international standards and making things even more misleading. As far as I'm concerned, this debate ends here. We'll have o agree to disagree, and I won't say anything else anymore about the matter as means to not end offending people here. But if the shoe fits....

[amsquareb]

Great article! Ditto positive description.
But its definitely wrong about one thing. In most cases borderline disorder is inherited and of course its genetic. Thats a total ******** written over there.

[fletch33]

Wow, that article was offensive. I don't even know what to say, really.

[Espresso]

Ok, that pissed me off. She's a quack. She is trying to portray herself as a borderline expert. She states that the scientific community's current understanding of BPD is just something that "a lot of folks apparently want you to believe." She's spewing her untested opinions as truth. Nowhere could I find what her "M.A." was in. I have a Master's degree, does that make me a BPD expert too? I can write an article about who knows what and put Espresso, M.A. and look like an expert too. Can you tell I'm enraged right now? Some of the things she wrote resonated with me, but those bits of truth were completely overshadowed by the gross misinformation she's perpetuating. She makes me sick.