[BipolarMama31]

So I have accepted I'm bipolar. I can see that. I've accepted i have schizoaffective disorder. It makes sense.
But a diagnosis of borderline has been thrown around for the last 6 months and i just ignored it.
Borderline and hystrionic. I just couldn't see that as me.
But i saw a neuropsychologist today. And she agrees with all of those dx.

So in a few weeks im doing an MMPI test with her. I guess this will confirm? Not sure.

Having trouble accepting this one. I've read books about borderline and i cant wrap my head around it.

[LovelyChantel]

I took the MMPI and it told them I have PD-NOS. good luck!

[BipolarMama31]

What is that?

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by BipolarMama31

What is that?

Personality disorder, not otherwise specified.

About the BPD: I believe all people with (early-onset) BP-I, schizoaffective disorder and disorganised SZ have a bit of a borderline personality.

What do you find hard to understand about it (and how/whether it's something you experience)?

BP is a lot simpler than BPD. Personalities are complicated and some seem to have been made to make life complicated just because they can (or arguably just one: BPD), even though you might have a feeling life is boring, dull, pointless, unfair and empty.

The one question you should ask yourself, as I see it: do you have any and possibly even worse, problems when you don't have (severe) depression, mania or a non-affective psychosis.

[BipolarMama31]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Personality disorder, not otherwise specified.

About the BPD: I believe all people with (early-onset) BP-I, schizoaffective disorder and disorganised SZ have a bit of a borderline personality.

What do you find hard to understand about it (and how/whether it's something you experience)?

BP is a lot simpler than BPD. Personalities are complicated and some seem to have been made to make life complicated just because they can (or arguably just one: BPD), even though you might have a feeling life is boring, dull, pointless, unfair and empty.

The one question you should ask yourself, as I see it: do you have any and possibly even worse, problems when you don't have (severe) depression, mania or a non-affective psychosis.

Thank you for this.

So my first instinct is, i have a PERSONALITY, not a PD! It first feels like an attack on mycharacter.
When I get past that, I can realize I dont have overwhelming joy or sadness. Ever.

My mom has called me 'dramatic' my whole life.
I dont have any SI or attempts. No SH.
(Unless you count an alcohol addiction)

Its just so different for everyone, and im trying to figure out what part i want to keep as me and who i am, and what parts are 'wrong/not normal'.
And, why should "i" change, society should change to fit me!

Now im rambling, and thinking, why do i take these dumb meds anyway!?! Im an awesome person, and they are medicating my personality out of me!

[Seeker101]

Of course you're an awesome person! And we all have personality, too. I may be speaking out of turn, but what was the reason you find yourself on "these meds"? I say "these meds" because if not for "these meds," I wouldn't be able to integrate the awesome therapy I've been blessed to receive over the past 18 months, cope with the demands of a new job, and stay present so I can deal with what's right in front of me instead of thinking what could happen on the scale of catastrophe. Having the personality medicated out of you for the short term may be the ticket to make your personality shine even better from a firmer mental foundation. You'll be fine.

[BipolarMama31]

You said it perfectly.
Im 100% med compliant. Going thru changes to find the right combo at the moment.

Sometimes i just get off track, and the easy scapegoat is these darn meds lol.
No, they keep me safe. They wont be going anywhere.

I have to learn who i am. My husband knows himself. Hes so strong in who he is. Im not. I envy that.
Im confident, outgoing, social, but so so insecure and lost inside.

[Seeker101]

If you look at the pharmacy of meds in my signature, I know all about finding the right combo of meds. IMHO, many of us here are pretty fragile on the inside working on various degrees of recovery to our best selves.

[BipolarMama31]

That's reassuring
(No sarcasm, thank you for that, i dont feel so alone)

[Pastel Kitten]

Originally Posted by BipolarMama31

You said it perfectly.
Im 100% med compliant. Going thru changes to find the right combo at the moment.

Sometimes i just get off track, and the easy scapegoat is these darn meds lol.
No, they keep me safe. They wont be going anywhere.

I have to learn who i am. My husband knows himself. Hes so strong in who he is. Im not. I envy that.
Im confident, outgoing, social, but so so insecure and lost inside.

I relate to this a lot. Like your husband, my boyfriend has a strong identity/sense of self as well, and I can't help but to be envious of that. He inspires me but it can be a bit painful to look at someone so whole and put together when you're so broken yourself. At least they've chosen to spend their lives with us. I'm grateful for him everyday.

[BipolarMama31]

Pastel- we are lucky to have them!

I feel broken, like you said.
Im in IOP DBT and my husband comes with me to learn the skills. Hes doing so much better than i am. But i love the support.

[Icare dixit]

If you've been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, how is possible you've never experienced great joy or sadness? Or do you mean you don't experience joy or sadness/despair unless you're manic or depressed? The latter, not feeling much, basically, is a symptom of schizophrenia (so also of schizoaffective disorder), but also of BPD. If nothing has any negative or positive impact on how you feel when you interact with people, it's probably not BPD.

[BipolarMama31]

Even when manic or depressed, for me its more like manic= creative, sexual, no sleep, energy, get lots of things done, start new projects, move, bad decisions. No overwhelming joy.
Depression= low energy, disassociate, no concentration, agitated.

So based off of what you said, i guess i would agree with the schizoaffective and not borderline.

Well, we will see with the mmpi test. Its for oct 3 and 4, so ill update when i know.

I am not really familiar with borderline. Different people explain it differently to me. One friend said they experienced it like they hated someone one day, loved them the next, and back and forth. And then they also stole $400. It just seemed so negative.

[Icare dixit]

Many/most descriptions of borderline are very negative. People causing problems where there are none, actively sabotaging relationships, reducing one's chances of success and inflicting pain on oneself. And it's true. What isn't true but is implied is that we can just choose not to do these things. What makes it a lot worse is that we are conditioned to think we do have that choice. It makes you hate yourself and deserving of pain and creating problems provides a justification for the inability to be, to choose, to be good.

If one is absolutely free, one is absolutely to blame.

[BipolarMama31]

A few years ago i would say this dx is spot on.
But now, i activley fight against those urges to sabotage.

But what i do have is mood swings throughout the day. I used to think it was just super super super rapid bipolar cycling. But, i mean its hour by hour changes.
I think thats a borderline trait.

Growing up, my moms favorite word to decribe me was dramatic. I think thats a common word used for borderlines.

What i do find enjoyable is creating chaos with people. For example, i enjoy getting to know someones secrets, then creating some drama that wasnt there. Its like a chess game for me. Idk if that comes into this category. But my husband says I'd make a great lawyer. I'm skilled with manipulation.

But, i dont do it with loved ones. Only people I don't care about. Or people i can use to get myself further in my career or whatever.
I think thats more narsacistic then borderline?

[Icare dixit]

I'd say if you don't feel severe shame after doing something "wrong" like that or disappointment or lots of confusion, there isn't a point where you are worse off than them, like a boomerang, it's more likely to be NPD or ASPD. ASPD is unlikely when you're "dramatic", probably.

BP may cause your mood to change within a minute's time even, but BPD mood swings are in a reaction to something (you've done or you're unsure about or someone else has done or what you think that makes you).

[BipolarMama31]

Wow. Lots to comprehend. Thanks for answering me! Gives some guidance.

[Zenbass]

Originally Posted by BipolarMama31

Thank you for this.

So my first instinct is, i have a PERSONALITY, not a PD! It first feels like an attack on mycharacter.
When I get past that, I can realize I dont have overwhelming joy or sadness. Ever.

My mom has called me 'dramatic' my whole life.
I dont have any SI or attempts. No SH.
(Unless you count an alcohol addiction)

Its just so different for everyone, and im trying to figure out what part i want to keep as me and who i am, and what parts are 'wrong/not normal'.
And, why should "i" change, society should change to fit me!

Now im rambling, and thinking, why do i take these dumb meds anyway!?! Im an awesome person, and they are medicating my personality out of me!

BPD has nothing to do with your personality. They are actually trying to get the name changed for just this reason. it's mostly about emotion dis regulation. the other symptoms just kinda stem off that.

[Icare dixit]

They're (APA at least) are not going to change the name because of that. They'll probably do away with all categories and change it into a dimensional system (maybe the one which is already in the DSM).

Some want to change the name because borderline actually doesn't refer to personality but to an edge case of schizophrenia (or more generally insanity).

I'd say BPD is about personality. But schizophrenia would (more or less, to varying degrees) be as well. It's conditioned behaviour. I do believe you require some underlying propensity for loose association. Bad memory. Borderline schizophrenia is a rather good description I think. Both borderline in severity and quality: between BP and SZ qualitatively, but less severe. It's chronic and changes your perception relatively quickly like SZ, but it changes your mood and behaviour more like BP. More or less.

As I see it, it's reducing everything to broader concepts, abstractions, but at least one's self-image. If you have fewer pegs to hang meanings on, they're farther apart. And if you define yourself using two pegs, you are torn.

One or the other. All or nothing.

[Zenbass]

Originally Posted by BipolarMama31

Thank you for this.

So my first instinct is, i have a PERSONALITY, not a PD! It first feels like an attack on mycharacter.
When I get past that, I can realize I dont have overwhelming joy or sadness. Ever.

My mom has called me 'dramatic' my whole life.
I dont have any SI or attempts. No SH.
(Unless you count an alcohol addiction)

Its just so different for everyone, and im trying to figure out what part i want to keep as me and who i am, and what parts are 'wrong/not normal'.
And, why should "i" change, society should change to fit me!

Now im rambling, and thinking, why do i take these dumb meds anyway!?! Im an awesome person, and they are medicating my personality out of me!

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

They're (APA at least) are not going to change the name because of that. They'll probably do away with all categories and change it into a dimensional system (maybe the one which is already in the DSM).

Some want to change the name because borderline actually doesn't refer to personality but to an edge case of schizophrenia (or more generally insanity).

I'd say BPD is about personality. But schizophrenia would (more or less, to varying degrees) be as well. It's conditioned behaviour. I do believe you require some underlying propensity for loose association. Bad memory. Borderline schizophrenia is a rather good description I think. Both borderline in severity and quality: between BP and SZ qualitatively, but less severe. It's chronic and changes your perception relatively quickly like SZ, but it changes your mood and behaviour more like BP. More or less.

As I see it, it's reducing everything to broader concepts, abstractions, but at least one's self-image. If you have fewer pegs to hang meanings on, they're farther apart. And if you define yourself using two pegs, you are torn.

One or the other. All or nothing.

do you have a source on this? I have never heard BPD compared to schizophrenia...i have studied this, because i have it, and i have never heard of BPD causing delusions or insanity (which i not a medical or PC term btw)

[Icare dixit]

The medical model isn't very old. Insanity is a beautiful word I think. And yes typically PC: changing the words but not the bad practices. Basically, BPD is one of 3–5 different diagnoses that have more or less the same origin, as borderline insane/psychotic.

A good source would be Wiley's Encyclopedia of Clinical Psychology.
Ritschel, L. A. and Kilpela, L. S. 2014. Borderline Personality Disorder. The Encyclopedia of Clinical Psychology. 1–6.

[Icare dixit]

Of course it's ironic that borderline is still treated as a category.

That's insane.

[Zenbass]

Originally Posted by BipolarMama31

Thank you for this.

So my first instinct is, i have a PERSONALITY, not a PD! It first feels like an attack on mycharacter.
When I get past that, I can realize I dont have overwhelming joy or sadness. Ever.

My mom has called me 'dramatic' my whole life.
I dont have any SI or attempts. No SH.
(Unless you count an alcohol addiction)

Its just so different for everyone, and im trying to figure out what part i want to keep as me and who i am, and what parts are 'wrong/not normal'.
And, why should "i" change, society should change to fit me!

Now im rambling, and thinking, why do i take these dumb meds anyway!?! Im an awesome person, and they are medicating my personality out of me!

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

They're (APA at least) are not going to change the name because of that. They'll probably do away with all categories and change it into a dimensional system (maybe the one which is already in the DSM).

Some want to change the name because borderline actually doesn't refer to personality but to an edge case of schizophrenia (or more generally insanity).

I'd say BPD is about personality. But schizophrenia would (more or less, to varying degrees) be as well. It's conditioned behaviour. I do believe you require some underlying propensity for loose association. Bad memory. Borderline schizophrenia is a rather good description I think. Both borderline in severity and quality: between BP and SZ qualitatively, but less severe. It's chronic and changes your perception relatively quickly like SZ, but it changes your mood and behaviour more like BP. More or less.

As I see it, it's reducing everything to broader concepts, abstractions, but at least one's self-image. If you have fewer pegs to hang meanings on, they're farther apart. And if you define yourself using two pegs, you are torn.

One or the other. All or nothing.

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

The medical model isn't very old. Insanity is a beautiful word I think. And yes typically PC: changing the words but not the bad practices. Basically, BPD is one of 3–5 different diagnoses that have more or less the same origin, as borderline insane/psychotic.

A good source would be Wiley's Encyclopedia of Clinical Psychology.
Ritschel, L. A. and Kilpela, L. S. 2014. Borderline Personality Disorder. The Encyclopedia of Clinical Psychology. 1–6.

NIMH » Borderline Personality Disorder

show me where it says psychosis is a symptom

I'm sorry, i don't usually like to call out people like this. but i'm going to have to call BS on this one. i have studied up on BPD A LOT and that definitely not true. that link i just copied in is THE definition of bpd and no where in there does it say psychosis is a symptom.

again i'm sorry if this sounds blunt, but it's kinda close to the heart seeing as how i am BPD and all so i would know what i'm talking about.

[Icare dixit]

Wow, BS!

The DSM has "the" definition of BPD. The 9th sign/symptom is paranoid ideation, which could be considered "borderline delusional".

If you consider psychosis to be something absolute, requiring a "complete" break with reality, whatever that is, there can't be a borderline state.

Anxiety can result in a panic attack. That doesn't mean there isn't anxiety if you don't have a panic attack.

Seeing psychosis (and insanity) as something absolute creates divisions where there are none.

All of this, including what's in the DSM or what the NIMH does is all about theories. It's not real, just a description of reality, and none of this is black-and-white.

I just told you my ideas, my theory, on the matter and what I said about the origins of the word borderline is true.

[Icare dixit]

Psychosis is a bit like changing gears from one state to the next. But there's not just one gear, one state. It's still gradual especially because there is still acceleration, gradual change, between states.

Schizophrenia, manic-depressive insanity (or a good mix) is a bit like driving a Formula 1 car, while borderline is rather limited in gears and speed. But still more so in gears than speed: there's a notable change in speed between gears. But the top speed is still rather high.

Most people have too many gears for the very limited changes in acceleration, changes in speed.

If there's too much acceleration that causes panic, fear. Those with an F1 car may go into a higher gear, while those with borderline can't.

The faster you go, the less accurate is your judgement and awareness of your surroundings. You get scared more and more.

Some people might be scared rather quickly when driving. That's different because they go slower, not faster.

The point is: it can get more or less psychotic or one kind of behaviour is.

Maybe a bad anology, but I'm rather chuffed about it.