[cherrykix]

Hi all,

Yesterday I went to see a spinal surgeon concerning the results of my most recent MRI. I've had back pain/nerve pain for over 8 years now, but it's been pretty bad lately so my regular pain specialist referred me to a surgeon to speak about possible treatments. Not only was I told that this year I have 4 herniated lumbar discs (I've had many of these before) I was told I also have Degenerative Disc Disorder.
The appointment was awful for many reasons, not just because of the diagnosis--the surgeon was rude, insensitive, unprofessional, condescending, inappropriate, and more. He was downright nasty at times. He made my mother cry, and repeatedly told me to "speak to the man upstairs" or "talk to the guy upstairs" (AKA GOD) about my pain and treatment for it--incredibly inappropriate, even though I am not religious, it was offensive. I sent in a complaint to the hospital.

But I have a few questions for people who have struggled with this disease.

1. How old were you when you were told of the disease? I'm not yet even in my mid-twenties, have been struggling with chronic back and leg pain since I was 15.

2. What sort of treatment have you gotten for it, how many, and what has been the most helpful?

3. Is there anything you can recommend, treatment-wise or just mental health-wise concerning the issue and it's effects on my other illnesses?

Thanks for reading

[Skeezyks]

Hello cherrykix: Well... I'm an older person. I have a herniated disc in my lumbosacral spine which impinges on the sciatic nerve. So I have sciatica down my left leg. I've had problems with my low back since I was a young adult. It's too far back now to even remember exactly when it started. I also worked as a vocational counselor with people who had sustained work-related injuries... many of which were low back injuries. So I've had occasion to see this from both sides.

I have not had any specific treatments for my ruptured disc. Quite frankly I've known too many people who had the various procedures done that are available & who either got no better or even ended up worse off than they were to begin with. I did, at one point, get some physical therapy. And I did yoga for a while. But the best thing for me has simply been walking, learning to use correct posture when lifting, & keeping my weight in check.

The fact is that everyone experiences degeneration of the discs in the spine to one degree or another. It's almost like cavities in the teeth. So being told you have degenerative disc disease isn't really like you have something scary going on that most people don't have. It's possible that, considering your age, the amount you have is more than would typically be expected. It does vary to some extent depending on such factors as a person's age, physical fitness, work & level of physical activity... things like that. I'm going to avoid getting into the connection, or lack thereof, between degenerative disc disease & mental health issues such as depression & anxiety. That's a whole 'nother can of worms, so to speak.

So having written all of that, from my perspective, what this comes down to is: can you live with the level of discomfort you are experiencing? My recommendation, based on my own experiences, is do everything you can to address your disc problems non-medically. Pay attention to your weight, walk, perhaps get some physical therapy instruction regarding appropriate exercises to do & ways to lift, bend, stoop & squat, etc. You might consider trying yoga if you've not done it. I didn't find it that beneficial. But many people do. (One of the most important aspects of this type of condition is to develop the muscles around the spine to provide support.) And then if you're still unable to cope, consider the various medical options that are available such as injections & surgical procedures. But I have to tell you my personal opinion is, being in your mid-twenties, you're too young to get into those medical treatments now unless you have something more than simple degenerative disc disease going on.

By the way, during my years working with injured workers, I had occasion to interact with a lot of orthopedic & neurosurgeons. A few were kind. But, as often as not, they were... shall we say... abrupt. What you experienced was not necessarily unusual in my experience... sad to say...

[Hobbit House]

I too have a degenerative spinal stenosis disease. Sorry to say it doesn't usually get any easier. Like Skeezyks said it doesn't usually get any better. I have had epidural steroid shots that have provided some temporary relief. I always comes back though. I was diagnosed at a very young age. I try to avoid medication for it. I think I'm on enough already. Exercise and proper lifting are also important as Skeezyks also advised. Hang in there!

[A18793715]

Originally Posted by cherrykix

Hi all,


Yesterday I went to see a spinal surgeon concerning the results of my most recent MRI. I've had back pain/nerve pain for over 8 years now, but it's been pretty bad lately so my regular pain specialist referred me to a surgeon to speak about possible treatments. Not only was I told that this year I have 4 herniated lumbar discs (I've had many of these before) I was told I also have Degenerative Disc Disorder.

The appointment was awful for many reasons, not just because of the diagnosis--the surgeon was rude, insensitive, unprofessional, condescending, inappropriate, and more. He was downright nasty at times. He made my mother cry, and repeatedly told me to "speak to the man upstairs" or "talk to the guy upstairs" (AKA GOD) about my pain and treatment for it--incredibly inappropriate, even though I am not religious, it was offensive. I sent in a complaint to the hospital.


But I have a few questions for people who have struggled with this disease.


1. How old were you when you were told of the disease? I'm not yet even in my mid-twenties, have been struggling with chronic back and leg pain since I was 15.


2. What sort of treatment have you gotten for it, how many, and what has been the most helpful?


3. Is there anything you can recommend, treatment-wise or just mental health-wise concerning the issue and it's effects on my other illnesses?


Thanks for reading

1. The pain really started bothering me at 17. It's taken off from there. I'll be 25 on nov 6th. I have arthritis as well as a herniated disc that's bulging on both sides of my nerve. It's also dehydrating. I don't know what that means or even how that would happen.

2. Most doctors I've seen for pain act just like what you described. They want your money but don't want to get red flagged by the DEA, in fear of losing their license. I've only had oral meds. I was supposed to get back injections twice. The first, I couldn't give a UA to save my life. Even after a full bag of iv fluids. So he said catheter or reschedule. Of course I rescheduled. I was fired the next day for having thc in my in my system. That doctor refused everything my pcp tried to show him why it's testing positive. I take marinol. He made a copy of the original prescription and even office notes (which apparently they don't really share) ALONG with a hand written letter. But nope. Doctor number 2, I had to cancel on because of family and transportation issues. Now that winter is coming, I need to go to a doctor badly. I can't get through an entire day of school without being in agony when I get home.

3. What I do is not expect doctors to help easily. They'll want to injections and even surgery before narcotics. Or even tramadol or Tylenol #3 or #4 (I've never heard of anyone getting Tylenol #4). For people who can't take NSAIDs and normal Tylenol doesn't do anything, all I can do is go with whatever I can get at this point. I feel like being young hinders people greatly. They'll believe a 70 year old addict and give them whatever they want but if a 28 year old came in, that's just a waste of time. It's all about money and safety of not prescribing too much and stand out.

The pharmaceutical companies have doctors on puppet strings.

[Travelinglady]

I was recently told by doctors that it's a normal result of aging, of course some have it worse than others over time. But stenosis is considered a disease, I think.

I don't know what was with that doc, but I'm taking opoids, trying to avoid surgery, since it is risky. I think it depends on what nerves can be affected.

Sounds to me like you need a second opinion, though.

I'm sorry you're struggling with all that pain. I hope one way or another that it gets better soon.

[cherrykix]

Thanks for the detailed replies, everyone--I really appreciate it.

I'm definitely looking into getting a second opinion. Not because I think surgery is the right answer, but I've had physical therapy 5 different times, epidural shots, acupuncture, chiropractics, physical trainers, everything, and it seems to never work. I don't want to be put on any more meds, especially narcotics, but it's getting harder and harder to live with the pain.

I'm not feeling too optimistic about it all. It's hard to add this to my plate that's already full of mental illnesses. I just want to be able to do things people my age can do.

Thanks again.

[A18793715]

Originally Posted by cherrykix

Thanks for the detailed replies, everyone--I really appreciate it.

I'm definitely looking into getting a second opinion. Not because I think surgery is the right answer, but I've had physical therapy 5 different times, epidural shots, acupuncture, chiropractics, physical trainers, everything, and it seems to never work. I don't want to be put on any more meds, especially narcotics, but it's getting harder and harder to live with the pain.

I'm not feeling too optimistic about it all. It's hard to add this to my plate that's already full of mental illnesses. I just want to be able to do things people my age can do.

Thanks again.

Good luck.

[Crazylion]

I've had three back and two neck surgeries, 1998, 2002, 2003, 2004, and the last in 2006. I was 34 when i had my first and 42 on my last. I am 52 now, stopped taking all opiates since last December because they started to make me very sick to my stomach where i want to vomit constantly. so i stopped cold turkey after taking them since 98. darvocet helped me the best but was taken off the market around 2004, so it has been lousy since then with the pain killers -- however, this is what happened briefly: when the new regulations began on the pill issue and i had to go to additional pain mangagement doctor, i started to get very irritated, also chronic pain doesnt help -- but, after have my back and neck go out since i was 17 and being in real agony eventually ending up not being able to stand, the surgeries saved my life, and i believe i'm better aving had them. so back to pills -- after about 4 months of the **** of peeing in cups every month adn having to take time off work every 30 days to get a f***ing pill that i've been taking forever and seeing the pill seekers in office who caused this who mess in the first place, i couldn't deal with it anymore and decided to stop taking anything where I had to deal with a pain doctor and go throught the monthly appointment crap that was really something i don't have time for. and when the doctor told me he could she i had alcohol in my system from days before - cause i like a beer few days a week -- and said i can't drink even when i'm not taking the pills, i told him id rather stop and have a drink when i want. so i went on my way with 600 mg ibupropnen , neurontin, and soma for mid days when my neck tightens like a drum sometimes. i thought, its not going to be that bad when i don't take my pills sometimes I'm fine.
and I was - for about a month - and then the real pain came. granted i had been taking a management dose like vitamins for a solid five or so years by then, and popped pills since 98 if i felt anything else, but had nars to keep me high alot and at home recoving for a few years since surgeries weere so close together so i didn't even know what pain was. I thought i was going kill somebody. it took about another month of finding out that it depends on what type of surface or chair i sit on causes pain, the angle when lying to reclining. i can't sit over and read or write as long as i used to which i love to do and have to stop and change my position to lying or sitting and at work i'm up and down, adjusting chair contstantly. at around 2 and a half months into it i had such a bad day of pain i was crying. i actually caved and went to the pain dickheads office to ask if i could see anyone or him and get an emergency rx for a couple norco, which is ok at times and not like percocet which is what he was giving me. but these days, i had to make appointment -- i'm literally in agony and i would have to wait a week? f..k that and her suggestion i go to the ER if i'm in pain. it is not like it was where i was treated with dignity and wasnt put into the poorhouse by constant doctor visits at 70 a pop or the er visits that usually are covered all the way, etc. so i went home and crie some more but i got through it. took hot bath, iced, went to my massage girl and cried some more. got a call from doctors assistant two weeks after my drop in saying they had an opening. they can blow me.

i believe that if i move -- just keep moving, no matter how much pain I'm in -- it gets better. it's staying down that makes more pain, just moving. staying busy, walking as much as possible, but making sure to rest my back and my neck and relax for periods of time with right pillows and angles, staying quiet and freee from any anxiety or stress. heat with it or ice packs are like "orgasmic" pain relievers sometimes when everything is flared up and aggravated and just lying down on one for about 20 minutes is wonderful. ice can be a main therapy treatment . swimming is great too. i love to swim and you can gain the strength we need in the muscles to support the problems and stay strong. strength is important so you don't hurt yourself and throw back out and end up in bed for a week. when i had my herniations in the past i had to stay on my back 6 weeks fo reach one. the surgeries ended that and my back and neck can get aggrivated but they never go out because of the titanium holding everthing together.

i get a massage at least one or two times a month from this girl from china who literally kills me, i have tears running out of my eyes, and i make her go deep and hurt me (not where it hurts my hardware), and breath, etc the chinese girls are liscensed but will give you bettter quality with strength, price and also find areas and focus on areas you ask for -- she will stay just on my back and neck for 90 minutes and i am sore for about a day and cant move without feeling like i was hit by a truck, but after that i feel like i am pain free for at least a week and then better for another after that. its a combination of these things now that help me get trough.
Pot makes me eat everything in site and it never has had a positive affect on me, makes me paranoid, and i have never liked it. don't like the feeling -- so that is out -- but a good straight vodka shot over ice with a little cranberry juice - depending on tummy -- sipped slowly dulls pain on bad night too. but no option for everyone. and believe it or not meditation power of the mind.

i wish everyone here good thoughts and i feel you.

strong strong....courage!!

oh, and you don't have to put up with asshole doctors, your orthopedic surgeon is going to be an important relationship to you so you should find someone you can call by their first name -- i waited and also had to meet my share of pricks -- but i got Tim, the older dude for first surgery who adored me and flirted like crazy. he lectured me and i would cry but he would make me feel like he cared and loved me and always gave me anything i wanted appointments, etc. -- then i needed younger superman person - Jason A Smith and I ended up growning up together, we turned 40 together and he is the greatest surgeron and awesome friend to have. it didn't hurt he looked like a movie star. hes in another state now, but because of his expertise, i don't need him anymore. it may take time, but the right doctor is out there for you.