[Caretaker Leo]

While there is the icon at PC to indicate these posts, it seems that many of the newcomers aren't aware of it and many who have been here awhile don't always use it.

IMHO, these are people who most desperately need help ASAP. While we are not pros at PC, perhaps we can create a thread that could be monitored 24 hours so people can respond quickly and provide resources?

[lynn P.]

I already offered this idea before and was told this might encourage too many suicide threads. Since suicide posts aren't allowed, they're usually deleted if they sound like a current intention. Personally I don't have a problem and they don't trigger me but they do trigger others. We can talk about suicide ideations in a broad sense.

[Christina86]

The best option for people who are suicidal, has been, and always will be, to seek offline support immediately - usually by talking to a friend or family member, calling 911, calling your therapist/doctor, or calling a crisis line.

For instance, the Community Team has no special training to intervene in a suicidal situation, especially through an online medium. There is also the fine line between suicidal ideation and suicidal intent. The former is allowed here (as long as the trigger icon is used) and the latter is not.

One resource that PsychCentral has is this: http://psychcentral.com/helpme.htm

[SophiaG]

There's a suicide forum online. I wonder how they manage this.

[venusss]

I once had an experience of somebody telling me in chat they ODed (directed them to hospital). was in pretty crappy place myself and spend night feeling responsible.... the person was fine......

I consider myself pretty tough person.... (have a desperate need for things to be okay though) and it was a horrible, horrible experience for me. These situations are hard to handle and guilt can be pretty bad. Sometimes it can send one in downwards spiral....

plus, there are people who are attention seeking, even unintetionaly even... and how many of us are able to handle this without taking it too much on ourselves?

[sabby]

Originally Posted by Caretaker Leo

While there is the icon at PC to indicate these posts, it seems that many of the newcomers aren't aware of it and many who have been here awhile don't always use it.

IMHO, these are people who most desperately need help ASAP. While we are not pros at PC, perhaps we can create a thread that could be monitored 24 hours so people can respond quickly and provide resources?

It's a very nice thought Leo, to be able to help those in a desperate situation to find their way. It's true, we are not trained professionals in dealing with members who are suicidal. Also, mod/admin are volunteers here who have no set schedule or time frame of when they can be online.

PC, in and of itself has many help venues for those who are suicidal. We have a number of posts in the sticky threads in the Depression Forum for suicide resources. They are very easy to look up and are just a click away.

One of the reasons suicidal threads/posts are not allowed is because this is an online environment. We don't have access to phone numbers/addresses or members real names. The absolute best thing to do in this case is for the member to seek out help in real life, where someone can respond to you specifically and assess one's situation.

Another reason we don't allow them is because of how it makes members feel when they can't do anything but post to someone. What happens when there are posts/pm's going back and forth and the suicidal member decides to log off PC and not answer anymore? The member trying to assist them is left feeling horrible because they don't know where that member went, are they safe, are they calling 911 or maybe have they even decided just to go to bed.

It's best, if you see a post that you feel is a suicidal post, to report it to the support team. We will look into it and decide if it is indeed a threat or maybe it's ideation. We can also reach out with the support information to the member and help direct them to real life assistance. They all deserve it!

It's a very hard situation for everyone to go through.

[venusss]

so what does the team do when one reports sui post? I never wanted to report because it seemed "mean".

[sabby]

The team works together and discusses the post and if it is indeed against our posting guidelines, then we pull the thread/post and pm the member with links for suicide information and hotlines and to find in real life help via a suicide hotline, calling 911, going to the ER, getting a hold of their T or pdoc. We also gently tell them why their post was removed. Nine times out of ten, these folks are not wanting to hurt or trigger anyone, they are lost and sometimes on their last nerve looking for help.

It's not mean if you report something out of caring for an individual. And it's not mean when caring for the membership as a whole in hopes that they won't read and be triggered by the post.

The team appreciates when a post is reported by a member. We don't have eyes in every single nook and cranny here, since there are often times more than a 1000 posts per day. When a member reports a post, it helps us to help the membership. Sometimes we find that there is a guideline issue, sometimes we don't. No matter if we do or not, we always appreciate your help!

[lizardlady]

What happens when there are posts/pm's going back and forth and the suicidal member decides to log off PC and not answer anymore? The member trying to assist them is left feeling horrible because they don't know where that member went, are they safe, are they calling 911 or maybe have they even decided just to go to bed.

Thanks Sabby. I was once in chat (at another site) and a chatter was saying they were suicidal. Several of us were talking to the person, trying to convince them to get real world help, at the same time we were trying to help ground the person. They abruptly logged off. Needless to say people were freaked out and panicked. Personally I like PC's policy.

[Lexi232]

Perhaps a board for just if you feel like doing it but not going to? Like for those of us, who would really feel better if they got to talk about it, instead of stuffing it in. And if we talked about it and got it out in the open, maybe others could relate and show us that we aren't so alone and isolated in feeling a certain way because of certain things?
And it could be a general trigger warning on the board or something? ...
Perhaps a sub board to the depression board? Or SIB board?
Because i can't talk about it no where.. and it would really help to just TALK about my thoughts and feelings, and know that nothing will come of it. but TALKING.. and getting it out...

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by Lexi232

Perhaps a board for just if you feel like doing it but not going to? Like for those of us, who would really feel better if they got to talk about it, instead of stuffing it in. And if we talked about it and got it out in the open, maybe others could relate and show us that we aren't so alone and isolated in feeling a certain way because of certain things?
And it could be a general trigger warning on the board or something? ...
Perhaps a sub board to the depression board? Or SIB board?
Because i can't talk about it no where.. and it would really help to just TALK about my thoughts and feelings, and know that nothing will come of it. but TALKING.. and getting it out...

Lexi, you can talk about your feelings. You can't talk about specifics or intent. Does that make sense?

[Lexi232]

...i think so.. (I'm having troubles differienating the defrence right now, but maybe i just need sleep. and then tomorrow I'll come back and read it and will understand it )
Thanks!

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by Lexi232

...i think so.. (I'm having troubles differienating the defrence right now, but maybe i just need sleep. and then tomorrow I'll come back and read it and will understand it )
Thanks!

Lexi, Sabby did a nice job of explaining here...

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...29#post1074229

My understanding is that it would be OK to say something like "I feel like poop and feel suicidal."

It would NOT be OK to say "I plan to do X, y and z tonight."

[PurpleFlyingMonkeys]

********************TRIGGER******************

I think the main difference is if you have plans or if you are just feeling that low. If you come online and post saying "I've had suicide thoughts lately, I get so down and I don't know how much more I can take. I don't know what to do. Don't want to do it but I have these thoughts" that vs the "I can't take it any more I'm going to do it! I can't take the stress I just want it to be over". Those are two completely different statements and mind sets. When you are in fact suicidal, there isn't much someone online untrained can do for you really. I've had others on chat before get on with the intent of doing that. It was as others said very difficult because when they are in that state of mind they are also much more reluctant to listen to what you have to say. But when you are just worried because you have been thinking about it lately, the support could be beneficial but either way these thoughts really need to be handled in person with a trained professional.

Many of us here at pc are very strong, we are very intelligent and the strongest emotional survivors around, but we have been beat. Many of us are just barely limping by trying to just make it through. When you get a lot of those in our state all discussing suicide and someone starts to mention why, then you have another member who is experiencing something similar and they start to think "well hey, that's going on with me too, it really isn't right... It is too much..." and the chain starts, triggers are everywhere. If not for that, just the idea, just the word sometimes can spark the idea in someone else.

I understand not wanting to hold it in, that's really difficult. But it really would be best in general to call a hotline or 911 or find a family or friend. With this new thread, suppose someone posts telling how hard things are, no one loves them etc and it takes 30 minutes for them to get their first reply, or a couple of hours if they even get one. That could cause the person to snap and follow through with their thoughts, calling a hotline or reaching out to someone you can get a response from directly and quickly would be the best in these situations.

The difference is I believe, if you are a threat to yourself or to triggering others to become threats to themselves that is the real issue. Suicide is no game, no joke as we know. It's not something that should be taken lightly in any sense even if it is for attention.

[Lexi232]

Originally Posted by PurpleFlyingMonkeys

********************TRIGGER******************

I think the main difference is if you have plans or if you are just feeling that low. If you come online and post saying "I've had suicide thoughts lately, I get so down and I don't know how much more I can take. I don't know what to do. Don't want to do it but I have these thoughts" that vs the "I can't take it any more I'm going to do it! I can't take the stress I just want it to be over". Those are two completely different statements and mind sets. When you are in fact suicidal, there isn't much someone online untrained can do for you really. I've had others on chat before get on with the intent of doing that. It was as others said very difficult because when they are in that state of mind they are also much more reluctant to listen to what you have to say. But when you are just worried because you have been thinking about it lately, the support could be beneficial but either way these thoughts really need to be handled in person with a trained professional.

Many of us here at pc are very strong, we are very intelligent and the strongest emotional survivors around, but we have been beat. Many of us are just barely limping by trying to just make it through. When you get a lot of those in our state all discussing suicide and someone starts to mention why, then you have another member who is experiencing something similar and they start to think "well hey, that's going on with me too, it really isn't right... It is too much..." and the chain starts, triggers are everywhere. If not for that, just the idea, just the word sometimes can spark the idea in someone else.

I understand not wanting to hold it in, that's really difficult. But it really would be best in general to call a hotline or 911 or find a family or friend. With this new thread, suppose someone posts telling how hard things are, no one loves them etc and it takes 30 minutes for them to get their first reply, or a couple of hours if they even get one. That could cause the person to snap and follow through with their thoughts, calling a hotline or reaching out to someone you can get a response from directly and quickly would be the best in these situations.

The difference is I believe, if you are a threat to yourself or to triggering others to become threats to themselves that is the real issue. Suicide is no game, no joke as we know. It's not something that should be taken lightly in any sense even if it is for attention.

I totally agree that it's not something to be taken lightly or as a game or joke, or for attention. I guess it's just since i have NO ONE, that here on PC is the only people i can goto. i called my T two days ago, and got no call back. I seek out some other options than 911, cause they all treat you worse than scum. so I just end up leaving them be, and a lot of times, I dont require a INSTANT reply or response. Sometimes its just waiting around for a response can keep me going. because I want to live, I just dont want to live like this.. and hurt like this.. so... if theres a possiblity that i might get a response that could help or give me something to try that I haven't found on my own or tried yet, that there is helping just within itself, because it causes me to wait.. and waiting is good.. atleast right now in my own life it is a good thing..

Also, the part about the chain reaction, that's very true. I've seen that quite a few times. but in that sense, that's why I think the forum would benifet either by having a board, or subboard under depression or sib, so that those who know they are like that, or are not in a place that would cause them to seek out the board to post on how they are feeling, would generally try not to go in to the board, unless they were in that state of mind, or healthy enough at the point to go and give adivice or help, or even just let others know that they are definantly not alone..

Thanks everyone who helped explaining things to me. I get it a lot more now.

[sandworm]

Ever heard that "I am not a doctor, but I play one on tv"? well, I ain't no doctor or
expert or anything, but I was blessed to attend a two hour class on suicide prevention.

This is not for crisis line personell, but for those who find themselves challenged.

the group that sponsored it had this as training. > have a familiarity with the
cues and signs of someone in current risk of suicide.
> Q: Question them if they are feeling self harming, don't be cowardly to be clear
that you mean what you mean. Being vague and too marshmellowy does a disservice to
them.
> P: Persuade them. This is listening with emotional Listening, ; not being too quick to
reassure them that life is good, can return to good, and that they are valuable. Be
specific. Remind them of their pet, kids, family and all they touch. This is what
is the first thing a person in 'highjack' is having trouble with is seeing the
consequences.
Let them know they need help. Ask them to get help. ASk, what are you doing to
get help? WHO can you talk to, who is there with you? Let them know you 'will' come
by, or follow through to check on them and then do it. This shows you care.
Keep them talking, keep them safe. Keep them alive for one more night. If they
hang up the phone, or begin to threaten to, let them know the consequences; you
will keep calling and calling, or if they do not answer you will send the police or family.
This will keep the person talking rather than have to deal with your compassion insistence
they are trying to avoid.
and
> R: Refer them to help. In the P: (persuade) you would have been doing thiis or working on moving to this stage.
Get them help and mean it. come over and drive them to a "T" or hospital. make an appointment on a day this can happen or if ASAP situation, then do it now.

I am not saying this is my ideas and I KNOW, I am copying the hard earned wisdom
of this Center that gave the talk.
This is not for crisis line personnel, but for those who find themselves .. as
Winston Churchill said, Called to be the Lion.

"S"

I am hoping this helps a friend deal with their troubled friend.