[813i]

I think it's preposterous that one of the most important aspects of ones depression can't be discussed

[unlockingsanity]

Originally Posted by 813i

I think it's preposterous that one of the most important aspects of ones depression can't be discussed

Discussion is probably okay, as in "This is how I got through a suicidal period..." I think they mean no posts like "I'm going to kill myself right now!!" posts.

[manwithnofriends]

Yeah, they didn't specifically say what sort of posts they didn't allow, "suicidal posts" is still too vague.

[Perna]

You can discuss the "subject" of suicide, but if you are feeling suicidal, call 911/hot line, etc. to discuss it, these are support forums and attempting suicide is not supportable here.

[Rohag]

Christina86, an Administrator here at PC, posted these clarifications in another forum last summer.

[emgreen]

I find posts declaring someone is going to kill themselves as being a form of emotional blackmail. It's a helpless feeling reading that someone has suicidal intentions yet we can't do anything to prevent it; we're not trained therapists. Doc John listed resources to utilize if you're feeling suicidal:

http://forums.psychcentral.com/depre...resources.html

If you're ever feeling suicidal, I hope you'll use these resources.

[ToeJam]

In addition to that it's potentially triggering. Many here are struggling with suicidal ideation... to read a post explicitly talking about intention could have a ripple effect or at the very least unhinge what is already a fragile state for other members of the board.

I for one could not have handled that a month or 2 back.

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by 813i

I think it's preposterous that one of the most important aspects of ones depression can't be discussed

Someone should add the phone number to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline into the "No suicidal posts" message above, the number is 1-800-273-8255.

The root of the issue is psychcentral's legal liability. The company can't endorse the use of their resources as a suicide prevention tool because it makes them liable. The forums are not staffed with professionals who are equipped to deal with a person who is suicidal. If the company implied that forum members were capable of dealing with suicidal behavior some serious crap would hit the fan if someone die as a result of our nonfeasance, misfeasance, or possibly even intentional malfeasance towards someone we might not like.

The company must endorse and enforce a strict no suicidal post policy as a way to protect itself from liability, the law makes no exceptions for this.

It's ok to generally talk about suicide here. However, what's not ok is posting statements that you are going to, or are considering, killing yourself. Additionally, a message like that is very emotionally taxing to forum members. Due to the anonymity of the Internet it's not as if we can call the police and have them do a welfare check. We are helpless to actually do anything and simply end up worrying about something we can't control.

Their is simply no reason to believe we're qualified to deal with an actual suicide crisis. Services like the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline are able to dispatch police that can intervene before a person is able to harm themselves, we have no safety net in place like that here.

Considering the aforementioned, I feel that posting suicidal messages here is attention seeking behavior and that for all intents and purposes it's a form of emotional blackmail.

Originally Posted by manwithnofriends

Yeah, they didn't specifically say what sort of posts they didn't allow, "suicidal posts" is still too vague.

There is nothing stopping people from asking for clarification.

Originally Posted by nbritton

Someone should add the phone number to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline into the "No suicidal posts" message above, the number is 1-800-273-8255.

The root of the issue is psychcentral's legal liability. The company can't endorse the use of their resources as a suicide prevention tool because it makes them liable. The forums are not staffed with professionals who are equipped to deal with a person who is suicidal. If the company implied that forum members were capable of dealing with suicidal behavior some serious crap would hit the fan if someone die as a result of our nonfeasance, misfeasance, or possibly even intentional malfeasance towards someone we might not like.

This is a good theory, but if that were the case than realistically PC would have to account for the potential of people intent on harming themselves and provide referral.

If PC is held accountable for what behavior they can forsee, than that would include having someone post out of desperation and having the worst happen because there was no information provided. As is? They haven't exactly covered their butts entirely.

Simply stating a preference for post type doesn't actually indicate a disclaimer of no responsibility.

To be honest?
I think PC is now set up in an interesting situation where they COULD be held liable because of the way the issue of suicidal behavior/intentions is dealt with. The situation is much more realistic than if they were more specific as to the reason.

Originally Posted by nbritton

Considering the aforementioned, I feel that posting suicidal messages here is attention seeking behavior and that for all intents and purposes it's a form of emotional blackmail.

Also, legitimately desperate people do things without thinking their actions through all the time. That doesn't mean it is "emotional blackmail". Blanket invalidating statements are neither true nor supportive.

I had a boyfriend that used to tell me he was suicidal and me and another friend used to sit with him for hours. I left work a couple times. I have no idea if we stopped him or he never really had any intention. It is emotional blackmail like another person said. Even after the relationship was over I still felt bad about it. Eventually pretty angry because you start to feel responsible for them after a while. It was several years ago and right now I have a knot in my stomach thinking about it. If you are suicidal please call somebody who can actually help you. If a friend tells you they are suicidal please keep yourself safe and get them to a professional.

I think that's why it is a bad idea to post that here. It is upsetting in part because you can't really help and they aren't getting the help. It would be devastating to some people (me) if somebody did that and disappeared. Best thing PC can do is spell it out.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[IndieVisible]

I'm gonna stick my neck on the line here and hope I don't offend anyone. Let's be honest for a moment, who here on this forum has never thought about suicide? Come on, the stories we could tell right?! So who better prepared to discuss suicide? Some unknown, unseen, person on the other end of the phone, or some one who's been there and understands how you feel? I've been there a few times and I may not have survived if not for some friends who were also there at one time too.

I understand this topic may be too sensitive or hurtful for some people. So I definitely support the trigger icon for suicide!

But we need to be there for anyone that needs reassurance from people just like them, who have been in the same damn spot in life! Some one to give them the strength and courage to pick up the phone and call some one for help, be it a doc, a friend, relative, or suicide hot line.

If I was in that spot, and seek help, just seeing the suicide hotline is not gonna really move me that much. I need a little more human contact.

Just my 2 cents.

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

I'm gonna stick my neck on the line here and hope I don't offend anyone. Let's be honest for a moment, who here on this forum has never thought about suicide? Come on, the stories we could tell right?! So who better prepared to discuss suicide? Some unknown, unseen, person on the other end of the phone, or some one who's been there and understands how you feel?

The person on the other end of the phone can send the police to a callers location if they feel they're a harm to themselves. Yes I've had to be hospitalized for suicide attempts, how does that make me an expert in trying to talk someone out of suicide? If anything it's proof to the contrary, as I've already tried to kill myself at least once before. I think I'd just end up giving them pointers on how to do it the right way the first time, or be reminded why I should try and kill myself again.

Suicidal thinking in a group like this is infectious, as many of us are recovering from past suicide attempts, or actively trying to suppress suicidal ideations. I can't deal with that **** here. Just thinking about it right now has brought up a lot of memories I was trying to block off from my mind, and I'm not on lithium anymore to suppress the thoughts this time around. I don't need this in my sanctuary.

[IndieVisible]

Because we can relate to the same feelings the person is having, and share a TRUE story with them that could give them that little bit of hope and courage to hold on. We have all been there! We feel all alone, worthless, hopeless, useless, in pain, with no way out in sight! So what made the difference for us? We could share that. Explain no matter how dark and hopeless it seems right now, things will get better and here's why.., Of course not all of us would be good or comfortable talking down some one. I know it makes a difference, but if you don't know what to say or how to make it a difference then I agree they would be better off calling 911, if they care too.

For those that this topic is too sensitive for them, they should not be reading any thing in this thread as it should be flagged as a trigger.

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

Because we can relate to the same feelings the person is having, and share a TRUE story with them that could give them that little bit of hope and courage to hold on. We have all been there! We feel all alone, worthless, hopeless, useless, in pain, with no way out in sight! So what made the difference for us? We could share that. Explain no matter how dark and hopeless it seems right now, things will get better and here's why.., Of course not all of us would be good or comfortable talking down some one. I know it makes a difference, but if you don't know what to say or how to make it a difference then I agree they would be better off calling 911, if they care too.

For those that this topic is too sensitive for them, they should not be reading any thing in this thread as it should be flagged as a trigger.

I'd never presume every scenario is the same. That said, I think that kind of peer support is great after getting help or before it gets to the point they have a clear plan and are wanting to execute it. I have seen several threads where the person is not at that point. Ok. But online you have no access to patterns in speech or expressions. This would make it near impossible to properly gauge a situation. In essence it would be really hard to know what to say in a text format. Think how messed things get messed up in regular text communication! A misplaced period can change the meaning.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by nbritton

Just thinking about it right now has brought up a lot of memories I was trying to block off from my mind, and I'm not on lithium anymore to suppress the thoughts this time around. I don't need this in my sanctuary.

britton-
I'm sorry you are feeling this way, but please keep in mind it is part of your job to not look at things that may upset you if that information is presented and available beforehand.

So I mean, yes this would ideally have a trigger, but the title of the thread puts the discussion topic out front, so if there are things like that which are obviously upsetting one might be better off not reading them.

[A Red Panda]

There's a big difference between "I wish I could die" vs "I'm going to kill myself."

The first one is expressing an emotion.
The second one is stating an action.

People can help with the first one. They can empathsize, offer support and suggestions.

The second one - it puts pressure on people to have to "save" the other person and would lead to guilt and remorse and a lot of worry if they don't hear from the OP quickly. All we can do in an online forum is offer support and empathy - which we can give. But we can't save someone, and making people panic isn't fair.

It could be very triggering for the witnesses. There is also a lot of debate/evidence (can't for the life of me find it online right now but I'm running on veeeery little sleep) that shows how if say, a teen commits suicide then there is likely going to be a spike in that community because it affects everyone. Talking about feeling suicidal doesn't make someone else more suicidal... but actually doing it can.

And when we're online.. no one would ever know if that poster killed themselves, went and got checked in the hospital, or was just someone pulling a prank because they're an online troll. There is no way at all to know.

At least.. that's how I rationalize it.

[nbritton]

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

So what made the difference for us? We could share that. Explain no matter how dark and hopeless it seems right now, things will get better and here's why.., Of course not all of us would be good or comfortable talking down some one. I know it makes a difference, but if you don't know what to say or how to make it a difference then I agree they would be better off calling 911, if they care too.

For those that this topic is too sensitive for them, they should not be reading any thing in this thread as it should be flagged as a trigger.

Medication has been the only damn thing that has ever helped me in this situation. You want me to help them, well I'm trying! We all know the sooner they pick up that phone the sooner the police can come out there and help them. The police are professionally trained to respond to situations like this, it's called a welfare check. They do these welfare checks throughout the country on a daily basis. It's a standard procedure, and contrary to what many may think they don't automatically hull someone off to the psychiatric hospital. They assess the situation and respond accordingly. However, most of the time the situation does warrant moving someone to a hospital and they are the only ones who can do that!

Trying to say that we are what's best for these individuals is almost selfish because we are the one thing that's keeping them from getting the help they truly need. Do you honestly think that telling someone not to kill themselves is actually going to be helpful with someone who has resolved to actually kill themselves? At best I think that's delusional thinking.

I'm ok with them coming here to chat about it after they're better, but we are not equipped to deal with anyone who is actually suicidal. The ones who are not actually suicidal are more or less just emotionally blackmailing us. The reality is that the group of people we can actually help are likely already seeking out professional help or just need a small nudge to get professional help. The rest we can't help.

Is this thread flagged as triggering? I don't even know how to tell. I don't know how I got sucked into this conversation, but here I am.

[DocJohn]

We're okay with people discussing their somewhat vague thoughts or feelings they have about wanting to commit suicide. Such posts should be marked with a trigger icon when made, and usually posted in the Depression forum.

We're not okay with people discussing their specific intentions, methods, or such in a way to suggest they are currently in crisis and in need of immediate assistance. We're not a crisis hotline, and are not setup to deal with people in such immediate need. We believe that when a person is at that point, they should reach out for a real-world resource in getting help.

Our site is governed by our Terms of Use, Disclaimer and Community Guidelines. We create policies here that are in the best interests of our members primarily.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify these issues.

Best,
DocJohn