[DocJohn]

After discussion with many members and our community support team, I've come to the conclusion that it seems best to keep the majority of political discussions out of the Current Events forum. There are literally hundreds of online communities you can visit if you're into politics. We are simply not set up to best serve our community's primary mission -- helping people with mental health concerns -- with the time & energy it takes to oversee such often-times rancorous political discussions.

You can continue your political discussions in the social group that a member setup to have them.

We will allow for limited political discussion that is directly related to a mental health policy or advocacy issue (or similar topics, like psychiatry or psychology) in the Current Events forum. It has to be DIRECTLY related to such topics. For instance, discussion of the 21st Century Cures Act in the US would be appropriate as a new topic for the Current Events forum under this policy, since it included a significant mental health component in the law. This policy takes effect Jan. 1, 2017.

I appreciate this will make some members unhappy and we do not do this lightly. But the community support team and I all feel it is in the community's best overall interest.

Best,
DocJohn

[emgreen]

I feel this is a knee-jerk reaction to the hijab article that got out of hand; it's been the exception since you banned political discussion until January 1st. The NewsBot already covers mental health topics so, essentially, you're eliminating the current events section altogether. There is a whole world of news & topics falling between mental health issues & unrelated political discussion.

While I understand the mod's job is difficult, I feel that the section has been (on the whole) used responsibly since political discussions were banned...It seems the ban could be made permanent. Take a look at the topics discussed recently & calculate the percentage that are cause for concern. Who cares if someone posts an article about the calendar gaining a second to recalibrate time in 2016? Many of the posts merely provide an opportunity for levity or distraction in the dark times sometimes resulting from mental illness. I hope you will reconsider given the points & suggestions outlined. Banning an entire section due to the bombast of a few is patently unfair, in my humble opinion.

I don't think this has anything to do with your thread emgreen. I'm guessing this politics ban was the plan all along from the moment he told us we couldn't discuss politics during the holidays. This announcement is no surprise. Might as well eliminate the current events thread if we have to pretend politics and government don't exist on it. There is a social forum on current events that still discusses politics and isn't subject to the politics ban.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

There is a social forum on...that still discusses politics and isn't subject to the politics ban.

I realize that, but this can be made clear in BOLD LETTERS at the top of the page in a manner similar to that banning political discussion for the holidays. The non-political/non-psych threads are often an opportunity for enlightenment....Just one example: The thread on self-driving cars overrode my fear of the new technology when it was pointed out that it will allow older folks to drive & maintain their independence in their later years. The blind will also be able to utilize this technology in time. The the thread changed my outlook on an emerging technology. Again, it temporarily took my mind off matters dark if only for a few minutes. If I'm to dwell on the fact that I have a MI/bipolar disorder all the time I might as well shoot myself now...(hyperbole)

I just find it odd that he posted this info here rather than on the current events forum to which it pertains.

[DocJohn]

I posted it here because this is where community administrative issues are discussed; we've made exceptions for such discussions in the past, but they really belong on this forum.

To be clear, current events can still be discussed in the Current Events forum that have nothing to do with mental health, as long as you continue to post a clear reason for posting the link or article, and kick off the thoughtful discussion about the topic. This new policy is not related to any specific thread or post and has been in the making for the past few weeks as we spent some time reflecting on that forum's purpose within our community.

This new policy decision only affects political discussions in Current Events.

[emgreen]

I misunderstood your OP. I read it as a blanket ban on discussion of current events. I apologize, Doc John.

[Artchic528]

I can't thank you enough for this, DocJohn. All those arguments arising from political differences were taking a toll on my ability to keep my anger under control. I have anger management issues, and a hair trigger temper (blame it on my red hair I guess), so this is very much a blessing for those like myself.

Arguing over sensitive hot button topics isn't at all supportive and have no place in a mental health forum where we are more sensitive toward things on average than most.

Again, I thank you.

As much as I loved the discussions there, I know that this is all for the best.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by Artchic528

Arguing over sensitive hot button topics isn't at all supportive and have no place in a mental health forum where we are more sensitive toward things on average than most...

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. We (whoever "WE" is) aren't necessarily "more sensitive towards things on average than most"...Speak for yourself. I take offense at blanket statements stereotyping the MI. I accept/respect the reasoning behind Doc John's decision, but not at all for the reasons you outline.

Originally Posted by emgreen

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. We (whoever "WE" is) aren't necessarily "more sensitive towards things on average than most"...Speak for yourself. I take offense at blanket statements stereotyping the MI. I accept/respect the reasoning behind Doc John's decision, but not at all for the reasons you outline.

Everyone with MI may not be that way, but some people are and I just think this is meant to be a safe place for those people. I see what you mean about staying out of the current events forum but I also don't see why it's necessary to have those discussions here period when there are other places for them.

I know that as an emotionally fragile person if it weren't for some of the guidelines here I wouldn't feel safe.

[Artchic528]

Originally Posted by iPhone

Everyone with MI may not be that way, but some people are and I just think this is meant to be a safe place for those people. I see what you mean about staying out of the current events forum but I also don't see why it's necessary to have those discussions here period when there are other places for them.

I know that as an emotionally fragile person if it weren't for some of the guidelines here I wouldn't feel safe.

Thank you iPhone. You understood what I was saying completely. Just because some folks can't handle "the heat" as it was stated, doesn't mean they should have to abstain from a certain part of the forum. It's, IMHO, cold hearted and exclusionary not to think of everyone who wants to participate on there, but can't because they don't feel safe enough to do so.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by emgreen

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. We (whoever "WE" is) aren't necessarily "more sensitive towards things on average than most"...Speak for yourself. I take offense at blanket statements stereotyping the MI. I accept/respect the reasoning behind Doc John's decision, but not at all for the reasons you outline.

Indeed. I have been volunteering and activisting in very sensitive issue and I don't need to be babied. Not everybody falls into thousand pieces when discussing something more serious than hugs and funny gifs and for some it's beneficial to discuss other things that their symptoms. People want to discuss politics here because they like to discuss such things with their friends.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by iPhone

Everyone with MI may not be that way, but some people are and I just think this is meant to be a safe place for those people. I see what you mean about staying out of the current events forum but I also don't see why it's necessary to have those discussions here period when there are other places for them.

I know that as an emotionally fragile person if it weren't for some of the guidelines here I wouldn't feel safe.

But if you make it "safe" for others, you make it unsafe for others. I have been told to shut up few times in chat when I was distressed about terrorist attacks on MY continents, in towns where MY friends are. Or about war in my backyard, basically.

These issues affect us and our mental health. I have PTSD from strong involvement. And if I cannot discuss it openly... than I don't feel safe or right.

So some feel safe when real world topics are done away and we pretend they don't exist... but to some it feels strange and even unsafe.

Again, I can pretend I cannot use my vacation house and vineyards cause flock of bears moved in and another flock of bear ruined the coal shed and that somebody said something mean to me (I can even pretend it was something mean about my "mental illness")... but what advice I can get?

Originally Posted by venusss

But if you make it "safe" for others, you make it unsafe for others. I have been told to shut up few times in chat when I was distressed about terrorist attacks on MY continents, in towns where MY friends are. Or about war in my backyard, basically.

These issues affect us and our mental health. I have PTSD from strong involvement. And if I cannot discuss it openly... than I don't feel safe or right.

So some feel safe when real world topics are done away and we pretend they don't exist... but to some it feels strange and even unsafe.

Again, I can pretend I cannot use my vacation house and vineyards cause flock of bears moved in and another flock of bear ruined the coal shed and that somebody said something mean to me (I can even pretend it was something mean about my "mental illness")... but what advice I can get?

No one is saying you can't talk about it in private or in the specified group. Obviously they received some complaints which implies that the majority here don't want to hear it. There are other things related to MI that aren't allowed here. For example, s. threats are not allowed. Because although someone may be feeling that way and want to talk about it, that is something that would trigger the majority of other members.

I never had a problem with politics but clearly there are other ways to discuss them besides in public chats and forums.

[venusss]

The thing is I may be slightly bothered by some topics... but I don't complain, because I see why some need to talk about it. I just don't participate ifI have nothing to say and cannot provide advice.

Obviously they received some complaints which implies that the majority here don't want to hear it.

Also, thanks for your concern and *support*.

Originally Posted by venusss

The thing is I may be slightly bothered by some topics... but I don't complain, because I see why some need to talk about it. I just don't participate ifI have nothing to say and cannot provide advice.



Also, thanks for your concern and *support*.

I made it clear that it wasn't just this topic people don't want to hear about. They don't want to hear about s. thoughts, SI or emotional support topics in the coffeehouse (where most people are). Although I may feel the need to talk about these things, I've accepted that they aren't allowed on the site.

(And I wasn't even suggesting that YOUR political discussion was a problem, I meant the whole thing in general)

[lizardlady]

Doc John, thanks for this decision. I used to enjoy the current events forum. I liked sharing news stories I found and reading what others posted. Then we had the presidential primaries and election in the US. Threads about those topics took over the forum. It got hard to find other topics in the forum. As important as the election was there's other important news in the world too. To top it off, many (most?) of the discussions turned nasty and personal (violation of PC guidelines). It got so I didn't want to visit the forum anymore because of the ugliness. I don't need anyone to protect me, but I come to PC to unwind. The rancour in that forum, at the time, was not restful to me. Yes, I could (and did) stop visiting the forum, but missed out on other topics posted.

Personally, I believe Doc John's (and the admins) decision is a great compromise. Removing political discussion from current events will, hopefully, allow folks to get back to posting about other important news events. At the same time there is the social group and attendant forum for political discussion. Seems like a win-win to me.

[yagr]

Originally Posted by venusss

But if you make it "safe" for others, you make it unsafe for others.

Well said, as was your whole post, but your first line here really hit the nail on the head for me. Like I said in the thread declaring a moratorium on political discussions for the holidays, this is not the first time someone in power has used that power to silence me.

That's the trigger for me. No worries, I'm a big boy and I can accept my feelings - even the ones that are uncomfortable to sit with. I've found that mental health practitioners are more prone than most to believe that they know what is in another's best interest. Maybe they are right more often than not but they sure seem to miss the mark with me.

[seesaw]

Not my site, not my rules.

I don't like discussing politics anyhow. I make my views clear by how I donate my money, how I volunteer my time, and my actions. I call my senators and reps when I want to educate, and I write letters. I find that more productive than trying to have a "discussion" with someone on the internet.

But that's me.

Seesaw

[*Laurie*]

I appreciate that we were able to discuss politics in a safe environment. None of the threads I was participating in were mean. In fact, I learned a lot from the threads because everyone was quite respectful. But I'm tired of battling this issue on PC. We do have the political forum, so that's good.

[Artchic528]

LauraBeth, I have personally seen mean behavior on threads in the Current Events forum before the holiday reprieve was set in place, some even directed at myself. Thankfully the issues have been resolved and I feel once again safe posting in there. I feel it's a much needed guideline that it only be allowed if the political aspect is heavily restricted.

I know that some laws and government actions are heavily involving the Mental Health Community at large, but I absolutely see no need whatsoever for all the blatant politician bashing that was going on in there. What purpose exactly does bashing some politician over and over and over again, with members taking both sides on the bashing in question and the whole mess driving a huge rift into what is meant to be a supportive and emotionally safe forum? I just absolutely fail to see what, if any purpose that has.

[Open Eyes]

When it comes to individuals struggling with MI's what "some" individuals feel is a good thing, may not be the case for others. During my membership I did see several members leave the site because they were triggered by that forum. One in particular was in a very bad state and suicidal. This one individual said to me "I am X and I don't belong here". I tried to help that individual feel safer, but once someone leaves, that's it and I can't reach out and offer support. I tried to look at that member's post and pick out something I could say that was "positive" about what that member posted.

Maybe "some" can handle the heat, but honestly, some may struggle with a MI where not only can they "not", but they are CONFUSED by the degree of their MI. So that person can most definitely get triggered if that person is an X and outnumbered by a strong group of Y's.

When a site is dedicated to helping and supporting people struggling with MI's it is a wise decision to consider "all" and not just the "some that can take the heat".

It is understandable that some members wanted to have that forum and interact where others may understand they suffer with X. That "if" that member get's triggered MAYBE others will see it and offer support. Yet, that doesn't always happen, often what becomes "more" important is who can articulate whatever better.

I said to someone a few years back, "how is it any good to get into a psychological race/battle where there is a wall between you, you feel like you won and that whole time the person on the other side of the wall you could not see "clearly" was severely crippled, what did you actually win?

I think Doc John's decision is the right decision and I respect it because after all, it's HIS site and he has invested a lot of time in it.

[*Laurie*]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

When it comes to individuals struggling with MI's what "some" individuals feel is a good thing, may not be the case for others. During my membership I did see several members leave the site because they were triggered by that forum. One in particular was in a very bad state and suicidal. This one individual said to me "I am X and I don't belong here". I tried to help that individual feel safer, but once someone leaves, that's it and I can't reach out and offer support. I tried to look at that member's post and pick out something I could say that was "positive" about what that member posted.

Maybe "some" can handle the heat, but honestly, some may struggle with a MI where not only can they "not", but they are CONFUSED by the degree of their MI. So that person can most definitely get triggered if that person is an X and outnumbered by a strong group of Y's.

When a site is dedicated to helping and supporting people struggling with MI's it is a wise decision to consider "all" and not just the "some that can take the heat".

It is understandable that some members wanted to have that forum and interact where others may understand they suffer with X. That "if" that member get's triggered MAYBE others will see it and offer support. Yet, that doesn't always happen, often what becomes "more" important is who can articulate whatever better.

I said to someone a few years back, "how is it any good to get into a psychological race/battle where there is a wall between you, you feel like you won and that whole time the person on the other side of the wall you could not see "clearly" was severely crippled, what did you actually win?

I think Doc John's decision is the right decision and I respect it because after all, it's HIS site and he has invested a lot of time in it.

I definitely understand what you've posted. And this is part of the reason why I'm glad there's a specific group/forum on PC now that is just for political discussion.

I will say, however, that when I am doing really badly with depression/anxiety just about EVERYTHING triggers me. I can't even be on PC at all. In fact, a big problem I have with PC is that I reply to others, but almost never post about my own problems while they're happening because I can't even put myself out there when I'm really messed up.

So...I wonder if some of the people who leave PC when they're having a really bad time leave because just about everything is feeding their despondency.

[*Laurie*]

Originally Posted by Artchic528

LauraBeth, I have personally seen mean behavior on threads in the Current Events forum before the holiday reprieve was set in place, some even directed at myself. Thankfully the issues have been resolved and I feel once again safe posting in there. I feel it's a much needed guideline that it only be allowed if the political aspect is heavily restricted.

I know that some laws and government actions are heavily involving the Mental Health Community at large, but I absolutely see no need whatsoever for all the blatant politician bashing that was going on in there. What purpose exactly does bashing some politician over and over and over again, with members taking both sides on the bashing in question and the whole mess driving a huge rift into what is meant to be a supportive and emotionally safe forum? I just absolutely fail to see what, if any purpose that has.

Artchic, I see inconsiderate and mean replies frequently on PC. There's one going on right now, and I bet nothing will be done about it. That's what bothers me...the Current Events board often takes the brunt of blame just because it's more obvious, whereas oftentimes mean threads on other boards are ignored.