[Lilly2]

Dear Administration and Moderators:

I'm requesting a MST PTSD Subforum Request under the PTSD Forum.

The rationale is that there's a "Combat PTSD" Subforum but no "MST PTSD" forum. Those two disorders are handled differently at the VA, and they are categorized differently for service-connected disabilities. Furthermore, "CPTSD" and "PTSD" in general do not always cover the specific dealings of military sexual trauma (MST), which includes career-related losses, adulthood traumas (as opposed to childhood traumas), PTSD treatments offered to veterans, males who have experienced MST PTSD, females who have experienced MST PTSD, and transgender or other non-cisgendered-identified persons in the military who have experienced MST PTSD.

At the VA, they specifically distinguish between MST PTSD and COMBAT PTSD. There are also other forms of PTSD at the VA, but such are not discussed or addressed that frequently.

Having a specific forum for MST PTSD will best support us veterans, myself included, who have dealt with feelings of betrayal as adults, losses related to careers and reputation, homecoming issues related to feelings of shame, loss of culture in the military we were so proud to serve, misdiagnoses for those who received less than honorable discharges, moral injuries affiliated with secrecy, and those like me who were honorably discharged without any records of mental disorders until much later when the effects of MST PTSD sinked in. I'm sure there are more military-specific issues that can be discussed in a forum for MST survivors, but I wanted to paint a picture of the primary benfits of support we could offer one another.

Additionally, for us veterans, we consider the military our "fictive kin," or "family." But for us who have experienced MST, specifically, we sometimes feel disconnected from that "family." Culturally speaking, a forum for MST PTSD would help us veterans to feel supported and reconnected to our "family." Unlike COMBAT PTSD, we aren't praised for our heroic deeds in surviving MST PTSD; instead, we are sometimes shunned for reporting it, told we are "less than," etc. I've met many fellow veterans in my day, and although many combat veterans have been wonderful supports to me, there were a few who were outright rude and mean to me. It's important to discuss those issues, too, IMHO.

That expressed, can you deliberate and consider whether or not an MST PTSD subforum would be helpful for us?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[seesaw]

Usually a sub forum is added when there have been a sufficient number of threads and requests to support the extra work related to adding a sub forum. I haven't seen a significant number of threads about this that couldn't be covered in the PTSD forum.

[Lilly2]

But if the search engines pick up MST, there are a signifant amount of veterans who may sign up on PC as a support for them.

I hear what you are saying though. Maybe at a different time down the road there might be a need. That makes sense. There probably is not that many people with MST on PC. Thanks for looking into this though.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Lilly2

But if the search engines pick up MST, there are a signifant amount of veterans who may sign up on PC as a support for them.


I hear what you are saying though. Maybe at a different time down the road there might be a need. That makes sense. There probably is not that many people with MST on PC. Thanks for looking into this though.

In the past the suggestion I've seen is to start a MST specific thread and then if it gets enough activity, they would consider a sub forum. What I have seen is there has to be the activity there first. I would suggest a thread under combat and under the general ptsd.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by seesaw

In the past the suggestion I've seen is to start a MST specific thread and then if it gets enough activity, they would consider a sub forum. What I have seen is there has to be the activity there first. I would suggest a thread under combat and under the general ptsd.

@seesaw Thankie you!

I'll try that, but...

I think the thread in the combat PTSD would be shotdown (pun intended, LOL), because in my experience as a veteran, combat veterans are adamant that their PTSD is vastly different from MST PTSD, among other types of PTSD as well. The VA seemingly agrees with this, too, according to their separation of groups for specific types of PTSD treated at the VA.

That said, I can try to start a different thread under PTSD only (the main forum), but I've only shared resources so far. I'm just waiting to see if there are some people who want to come forward and say something there. There probably are only a handful of people on PC with MST, since I did a search using "MST" and "military sexual trauma." There weren't many posts about that by many other veterans, and most posts were embedded within other types of discussions (not including mine).

You're probably right about there being a lack of veterans on here with MST. However, in the real world, there is an estimated 25% of female veterans and 10% of male veterans at the VA with reported MST (with or without a service rating, and with or without a diagnosis of PTSD): Military Sexual Trauma - MST - DAV

That's a lot of veterans at the VA healthcare alone. That's not counting the veterans or active duty personnel who have not reported their MST to the VA or to the government.

It would be interesting to know whether or not many veterans with MST PTSD, specifically, even go online for support let alone post in general PTSD forums. The veterans I knew in one area alone (a large urban city) rarely go online for support, and if they do, it's for telehealth or some other app that targets their specific needs.

I just thought that it would be most appealing for MST survivors to find a forum specifically for them on PC, that's all.

And I say "them," but I am one of them, LOL.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by seesaw

In the past the suggestion I've seen is to start a MST specific thread and then if it gets enough activity, they would consider a sub forum. What I have seen is there has to be the activity there first. I would suggest a thread under combat and under the general ptsd.

@seesaw

BTW, I've created a poll under the PTSD forum, per your suggestion: Would a MST PTSD Subforum be Helpful?

Thank you for the suggestion!

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Lilly2

@seesaw

BTW, I've created a poll under the PTSD forum, per your suggestion: Would a MST PTSD Subforum be Helpful?

Thank you for the suggestion!

My suggestion was not for a poll, but rather you could create a specific thread for people to talk about MST and if the thread becomes active with members posting, then there might be justification to add a subforum. But rather than have inactive forums (and there already are quite a few) the policy seems to have been to wait until there is actual activity that justifies the need before creating new subforums.

[Lilly2]

@seesaw

Should I delete the poll?

[Lilly2]

@seesaw

I'll leave the poll up and this request up for about a month. If it still has no replies, I'll request the mods to delete it. This was just a thought, so no biggie if it doesn't work out.

It was the first time I created a poll, btw. I went a little buck wild with the options. :P

[DocJohn]

Thanks for the suggestion!

We generally look to create new sub-forums to meet a demand demonstrated by our current membership for need of such a forum. We don't do it by poll, but rather by looking at how often the topic is discussed in a current forum.

We don't subscribe to the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy, because, well, it's been our experience in running this community for 17+ years is that it doesn't work that way. (At least not for us.)

[HD7970GHZ]

Hi,

I just wanted to comment on this because I like the idea, and thought maybe some of what I know may help guide your decision.

As much as I like the idea for subtopics on PTSD - keep in mind that most people will probably not post on a specific subforum for PTSD, but rather in the main forums. It's quick and easy and most chance that others will reply and take part in the conversation / share insights.

Perhaps I am wrong - but I've noticed that posting in complex PTSD subforums (despite its popularity right now in the psychological community) does not draw nearly as many numbers compared to general PTSD forums.

Regardless, your request is valid and I would love to see a subsection about this topic! It is horrible how many suffer in silence.

If the goal is to create a safe specific location for survivors of abuse in military - then it is absolutely warranted!

If the goal is to generate more support, awareness and numbers - I don't know if it will work any better than posting on General PTSD sections where many more people already browse.

It has been contemplated to create a subsection for survivors of abuse in therapy - but we didn't have to. Instead we just post in Psychotherapy section.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Hi,

I just wanted to comment on this because I like the idea, and thought maybe some of what I know may help guide your decision.

As much as I like the idea for subtopics on PTSD - keep in mind that most people will probably not post on a specific subforum for PTSD, but rather in the main forums. It's quick and easy and most chance that others will reply and take part in the conversation / share insights.

Perhaps I am wrong - but I've noticed that posting in complex PTSD subforums (despite its popularity right now in the psychological community) does not draw nearly as many numbers compared to general PTSD forums.

Regardless, your request is valid and I would love to see a subsection about this topic! It is horrible how many suffer in silence.

If the goal is to create a safe specific location for survivors of abuse in military - then it is absolutely warranted!

If the goal is to generate more support, awareness and numbers - I don't know if it will work any better than posting on General PTSD sections where many more people already browse.

It has been contemplated to create a subsection for survivors of abuse in therapy - but we didn't have to. Instead we just post in Psychotherapy section.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Thank you HD.

I think that it was not so much the need for the separate forum as much as the appearance that Combat PTSD always seems to be what most people think about veterans with PTSD. There are many veterans with MST PTSD, but there is a lack of awareness, AND the trauma continues in the military, like a hazing ritual of sorts. It just saddens me.

There are not many people on PC with MST, so there really is not a need for a separate forum. It is just hard to find any non-clinical support groups for this.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Hi,

I just wanted to comment on this because I like the idea, and thought maybe some of what I know may help guide your decision.

As much as I like the idea for subtopics on PTSD - keep in mind that most people will probably not post on a specific subforum for PTSD, but rather in the main forums. It's quick and easy and most chance that others will reply and take part in the conversation / share insights.

Perhaps I am wrong - but I've noticed that posting in complex PTSD subforums (despite its popularity right now in the psychological community) does not draw nearly as many numbers compared to general PTSD forums.

Regardless, your request is valid and I would love to see a subsection about this topic! It is horrible how many suffer in silence.

If the goal is to create a safe specific location for survivors of abuse in military - then it is absolutely warranted!

If the goal is to generate more support, awareness and numbers - I don't know if it will work any better than posting on General PTSD sections where many more people already browse.

It has been contemplated to create a subsection for survivors of abuse in therapy - but we didn't have to. Instead we just post in Psychotherapy section.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

HD, there is a separate forum called survivors of abuse, I believe. It is not in the PTSD forum because not everyone gets PTSD from abuse. You could try posting about therapy abuse in that forum, too. Psychotherapy seems like a place to discuss different therapies as well as therapy abuse, I suppose.

For therapy abuse, there are a lot of discussions from members on that. Maybe a subforum under psychotherapy or under survivors of abuse might be helpful.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Lilly2

Thank you HD.

I think that it was not so much the need for the separate forum as much as the appearance that Combat PTSD always seems to be what most people think about veterans with PTSD. There are many veterans with MST PTSD, but there is a lack of awareness, AND the trauma continues in the military, like a hazing ritual of sorts. It just saddens me.

There are not many people on PC with MST, so there really is not a need for a separate forum. It is just hard to find any non-clinical support groups for this.

Hi Lilly2,

I agree 100% with you!! For this reason I recommend having a special place.

I just googled military sexual trauma stats. I have not fact checked this but it seems like a credible source...

According to a report by a VA psychiatrist, "

Overall, 52.5% of women and 8.9% of men in the military report sexual harassment, and 23.6% of women and 1.9% of men report being sexually assaulted. That amounts to 14,900 service members, 8,600 women, and 6,300 men who were assaulted in 2016..."

That is horrible... I didn't know it was so bad... Breaks my heart.

Do whatever you need to do to heal. If creating a subforum helps you and helps gives others a voice - please do it.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Lilly2

HD, there is a separate forum called survivors of abuse, I believe. It is not in the PTSD forum because not everyone gets PTSD from abuse. You could try posting about therapy abuse in that forum, too. Psychotherapy seems like a place to discuss different therapies as well as therapy abuse, I suppose.

For therapy abuse, there are a lot of discussions from members on that. Maybe a subforum under psychotherapy or under survivors of abuse might be helpful.

Hi Lilly2

Thank you, I am aware of this subforum for abuse survivors but I haven't really gone there. While it has some support, very few ever look at the subforums. I think psychotherapy tab works good enough.

The one I am thinking of is Romantic Feelings Towards My Therapist - in the Psychotherapy forums. Is that the one you're referring to?

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Hi Lilly2,

I agree 100% with you!! For this reason I recommend having a special place.

I just googled military sexual trauma stats. I have not fact checked this but it seems like a credible source...

According to a report by a VA psychiatrist, "

That is horrible... I didn't know it was so bad... Breaks my heart.

Do whatever you need to do to heal. If creating a subforum helps you and helps gives others a voice - please do it.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

There are not enough people for a subforum. It is just that the VA knows that mst ptsd survivors are triggered by the va and combat veterans, which is why combat ptsd is not always safe for mst ptsd. General ptsd forum works best for this venue, but in the world, when i am acknowledged as a vet with ptsd, the first thing everyone thinks is combat ptsd. I never served in combat. To show more presence of having mst ptsd next to combat ptsd would help the masses realize that veterans can experience one or both forms of ptsd... And that mst ptsd may be as prevalent as combat ptsd. 25 to 50 percent of women and 10 to 15 percent of men report mst. Not all have ptsd, but that is how many are victimized.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Hi Lilly2 ...

The one I am thinking of is Romantic Feelings Towards My Therapist - in the Psychotherapy forums. Is that the one you're referring to?

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

That is a separate issue altogether. The request for that was to move the thread for therapy exploitation to psychotherapy forum since it has nothing to do with erotic transferance and more to do with therapy abuse, what you have actually promoted in your threads. I listed resources on emotional abuse, which does not have anything to do with erotic transference, or romantic feelings. It is miscategorized, and I would have never found it had another member not mentiined it to me. Others agreed that the therapy abuse resources should not be inbthe romantic feelings section at all.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Lilly2

There are not enough people for a subforum. It is just that the VA knows that mst ptsd survivors are triggered by the va and combat veterans, which is why combat ptsd is not always safe for mst ptsd. General ptsd forum works best for this venue, but in the world, when i am acknowledged as a vet with ptsd, the first thing everyone thinks is combat ptsd. I never served in combat. To show more presence of having mst ptsd next to combat ptsd would help the masses realize that veterans can experience one or both forms of ptsd... And that mst ptsd may be as prevalent as combat ptsd. 25 to 50 percent of women and 10 to 15 percent of men report mst. Not all have ptsd, but that is how many are victimized.

I think your logic is sound! It's interesting to hear this from someone who's been through it. I have heard stigma's attached to military service ptsd / military sexual trauma, but never about it so openly. Thank you for sharing that insight.

In saying this, I agree that separating the two is important!

You've got a lot to say and share and I look forward to hearing more. You've certainly opened my eyes to military abuse!

Any chance you might have a title in mind for your subsection?

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Lilly2

That is a separate issue altogether. The request for that was to move the thread for therapy exploitation to psychotherapy forum since it has nothing to do with erotic transferance and more to do with therapy abuse, what you have actually promoted in your threads. I listed resources on emotional abuse, which does not have anything to do with erotic transference, or romantic feelings. It is miscategorized, and I would have never found it had another member not mentiined it to me. Others agreed that the therapy abuse resources should not be inbthe romantic feelings section at all.

K cool thank you

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

K cool thank you

Oops. Sorry if my response came out as unkind. I was just trying to clarify. It is also hard for me to type on my cell phone on PC LOL.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

I think your logic is sound! It's interesting to hear this from someone who's been through it. I have heard stigma's attached to military service ptsd / military sexual trauma, but never about it so openly. Thank you for sharing that insight.

In saying this, I agree that separating the two is important!

You've got a lot to say and share and I look forward to hearing more. You've certainly opened my eyes to military abuse!

Any chance you might have a title in mind for your subsection?

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

LOL... There is not enough people for a subsection to be warranted. I think maybe 3 or 4 members have posted about mst, at least based on my search. That is too low a number.

Maybe in the future. But not now, unfortunately. As it is, no one has responded to my posts in the ptsd forum. Only one member replied to a post I made before i rejoined. That is not enough.

It is also a triggering topic for non vets to read. So even less likely to receive support. People like to see vets as heroic, not as me-too complainers. That is just the reality of our society.

[lizardlady]

Just a thought.... how about starting a thread about MST PTSD in the general PTSD forum. If it generates enough respnses maybe it could become a stickie at the top of the forum?

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Just a thought.... how about starting a thread about MST PTSD in the general PTSD forum. If it generates enough respnses maybe it could become a stickie at the top of the forum?

I tried a few times. One a while back, which now shows as anonymous because I left and came back. Another with mst ptsd resources. I think the poll was deleted, but I requested to delete the poll, lol. There is not many reaponses, not enough people.

It could be that many mst survivors do not join online groups, or if they do, they would rather discuss other things.

Not sure.

But you make a good point. Thank you.

[luvyrself]

I strongly disagree with anything that would discourage anyone from getting help. I have a friend who is a lead technician servicing fighter planes overseas. I think he is still hiding this from his family. It makes me crazy.

[Lilly2]

Originally Posted by luvyrself

I strongly disagree with anything that would discourage anyone from getting help. I have a friend who is a lead technician servicing fighter planes overseas. I think he is still hiding this from his family. It makes me crazy.

@luvyrself

(((safe hugs))) I'm so sorry to hear about your friend overseas. It's sad when he feels like he has to hide this from his family, especially when his family could be a strong support for him.

Sadly, I did the same thing. My family doesn't know about my MST at all. What was going through my mind at the time of discharge and for homecoming was shame. I felt ashamed for not speaking up and reporting what happened to me, even though at least one of the men went to the brig, and I felt ashamed for having my time cut short, even though I was honorably discharged. I felt ashamed that my wounds weren't cause by combat, but rather sexual victimization. It was hard for me to share anything about the service. And, because there is a level of clearance that we all have in service, I didn't think I could share this with any civilians, let alone any fellow service members.

It's a secret shame that I've held onto for over 20 years before I went to the VA to seek treatment for that. I was in civilian therapy for about 20 years and pretending that my "childhood" traumas represented my MST, since I didn't want to speak negatively about the Corps.

I can understand that moral injury of silence, and why people remain silent. It doesn't make it right. It angers me, too. Maybe I wouldn't be so f**** up had I said something and gotten help.

I hope your friend is able to reach out and get some help. Even if he feels he cannot report it, there are ways he can still get help when he's off duty, I think. If he can find the courage to report it, that would be best, too, of course.

I'm so sorry, once again, to hear about your friend. (((safe hugs)))