[RubyRae]

From Wikipedia:

Learned helplessness is behavior typical of a human or non-human animal and occurs where an animal endures repeatedly painful or otherwise aversive stimuli which it is unable to escape or avoid. After such experience, the organism often fails to learn or accept "escape" or "avoidance" in new situations where such behavior would likely be effective. In other words, the organism learned that it is helpless in situations where there is a presence of aversive stimuli and has accepted that it has lost control, and thus gives up trying.

From Encyclopedia Britannica:

Mental state in which an organism forced to bear aversive stimuli, or stimuli that are painful or otherwise unpleasant, becomes unable or unwilling to avoid subsequent encounters with those stimuli, even if they are “escapable,” presumably because it has learned that it cannot control the situation.

When I started therapy,learned helplessness was something my T began talking to me about right away.He explained about classical conditioning and helped me understand that after being born/raised in a captive situation I wasn't able to realize that I have choices and options and could change my circumstances.

At the time,I was once again in a captive situation,not realizing that's even what it was.All I knew was that I was miserable,felt I was having a breakdown and felt suicidal because ending my life was the only way I saw a way out of my situation.

After much therapy I began to understand exactly what my T was talking about and began my journey to change all the conditioning in childhood.I have changed many things and still have a long way to go.Each thing that I do change gives me confidence to change more things,each time I do I feel empowered.

When a person experiences abuse and neglect in childhood,with no escape from it,no one to help,no one to turn to,they learn to adapt,they learn that that's just how life is and there's nothing they can do that will make a difference.That carries over into adulthood and although the person is an adult they still behave as that helpless,hopeless child.I didn't even know that's what I was doing,I was blaming everything on everyone else in my life,they were the ones abusing me,they were the ones making me so unhappy,unstable and miserable that I wanted to die.I could not see or comprehend that I actually had a choice in it,I could do something about it,I could change my situation,that I am an adult now and not that child.

It's been extremely hard work trying to change the conditioning but well worth the effort.And I guess I'm talking about it because I can recognize learned helplessness in many posts I read here at PC and I understand what they go through,wanting so badly to change their situations,to have better lives but seem stuck and believe nothing will ever change.But it can change with a lot of hard work both in and out of therapy.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by RubyRae

It's been extremely hard work trying to change the conditioning but well worth the effort.And I guess I'm talking about it because I can recognize learned helplessness in many posts I read here at PC and I understand what they go through,wanting so badly to change their situations,to have better lives but seem stuck and believe nothing will ever change.But it can change with a lot of hard work both in and out of therapy.

What makes it harder is how it can be sabotaged by people you want to depend on, even temporarily.

It saddens me to see other members who are stuck in that learned helplessness, and knowing that even if I offered a million suggestions on ways to make things better, they fall on deaf ears. I've even made it onto someone's ignore list because my viewpoints/suggestions didn't mesh well with their learned helplessness. I have to keep in mind that the individual has to be ready to make these changes, and I have to accept that some people are not ready. It is hard to watch though.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

What makes it harder is how it can be sabotaged by people you want to depend on, even temporarily.

I agree with that,and I'm sorry if that's been your experience.

Originally Posted by scaredandconfused

It saddens me to see other members who are stuck in that learned helplessness, and knowing that even if I offered a million suggestions on ways to make things better, they fall on deaf ears. I've even made it onto someone's ignore list because my viewpoints/suggestions didn't mesh well with their learned helplessness. I have to keep in mind that the individual has to be ready to make these changes, and I have to accept that some people are not ready. It is hard to watch though.

Yeah,they have to be ready.They also have to be willing too.

But also,they may not even be able to recognize their learned helplessness,like I wasn't able to.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by scaredandconfused

It saddens me to see other members who are stuck in that learned helplessness, and knowing that even if I offered a million suggestions on ways to make things better, they fall on deaf ears.

Many times because they really believe that nothing will change,nothing will help,they don't even bother trying.They don't realize things CAN improve and if they would at least try,and something actually does help, it's going to empower them and motivate them to try even more things and make even more changes.

I believe they really do want to change things but they just don't know how because it goes against all the deep rooted conditioning.And because of fear.

*I am in no way putting anyone down,I am just trying to make a point that anything learned can be unlearned and with proper help things really can get better*

[SoupDragon]

I think it can be really hard to unlearn something, particularly if it was learned when young. Sometimes I know rationally, that all is ok and I now have power that I didn't have when I was young, but that doesn't stop my body taking over and shutting me down.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I think it can be really hard to unlearn something, particularly if it was learned when young. Sometimes I know rationally, that all is ok and I now have power that I didn't have when I was young, but that doesn't stop my body taking over and shutting me down.

It IS really hard but can still be done.

I don't know if I will ever "unlearn" everything,or if it's even possible to,but I think many,many things can be unlearned.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by RubyRae

It IS really hard but can still be done.

I don't know if I will ever "unlearn" everything,or if it's even possible to,but I think many,many things can be unlearned.

Yes I agree. I don't give up hope, but not there yet.

[Onward2wards]

Learned helplessness has become one of my major problems. It is affecting specific things that I badly need to change.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by Onward2wards

Learned helplessness has become one of my major problems. It is affecting specific things that I badly need to change.

I'm sorry to hear that,and I do understand.

Are you in therapy?

[SaharaSon]

RubyRae, a very strong and brilliant discussion. Everyone needs to think much more about learned helplessness. It's also about learning about the strengths we all have within ourselves to overcome. Like you did. Great! Shalom.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

What makes it harder is how it can be sabotaged by people you want to depend on, even temporarily.

Agree, if they only knew how much damage that does and sets people back in their progress maybe they would rethink their actions, or maybe not. Some people are just self centered and hurting others is a game to them.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by scaredandconfused

It saddens me to see other members who are stuck in that learned helplessness, and knowing that even if I offered a million suggestions on ways to make things better, they fall on deaf ears. I've even made it onto someone's ignore list because my viewpoints/suggestions didn't mesh well with their learned helplessness. I have to keep in mind that the individual has to be ready to make these changes, and I have to accept that some people are not ready. It is hard to watch though.

That's so true, they have to be ready and willing to do the work.

[TrailRunner14]

Learned Helplessness, to me, feels like younger parts of me being triggered and coming forward in that moment.

I'm young, afraid and helpless internally. It's the younger part of me still looking at the situation/moment/trigger with the thoughts, feelings and fears of that young part. It's involuntary and a very scary place to find myself in.

As my younger parts have seen me stand up for them more, I haven't been hijacked quite as often, in those kind of situations.

It still happens and I don't realize it until after the fact. Hopefully as I get stronger they will trust me more and not feel the need to step in and take us both back to those scary places.

[Unrigged64072835]

I felt like this for quite a while, after coming out of a few traumatic situations. It's been only recently that I haven't felt that way. I think with getting older and being in a lot of therapy I've found my voice, my muscle.

[Onward2wards]

Originally Posted by RubyRae

I'm sorry to hear that,and I do understand.

Are you in therapy?

Not currently. I have been in the past and continue to use skills learned there, as well as all the self-help I can learn.

[Trace14]

For me helplessness=loss of hope

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Trace14

For me helplessness=loss of hope

It's just where you're at now.

I don't want to give you "words of encouragement" I just want to say and believe for me and you that's it's just for now.

If you keep looking forward and pressing forward it will appear.

That was a word for you and me.

[SaharaSon]

Originally Posted by Trace14

For me helplessness=loss of hope

Trace, I agree. I 've been there. I have now subjugated loss of hope to my will. I will never lose hope, as long as I have a breath in me. I won't allow it. It is too much like, not just physical death, but more importantly, spiritual death. I will not allow it. Period. They can kill the body, but they will never take my soul. NEVER. As you can see I have some strong feelings about this subject matter. Hang tough bro, we are in your corner. Focus on the good people, they are out there. Shalom.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by SaharaSon

Trace, I agree. I 've been there. I have now subjugated loss of hope to my will. I will never lose hope, as long as I have a breath in me. I won't allow it. It is too much like, not just physical death, but more importantly, spiritual death. I will not allow it. Period. They can kill the body, but they will never take my soul. NEVER. As you can see I have some strong feelings about this subject matter. Hang tough bro, we are in your corner. Focus on the good people, they are out there. Shalom.

Thanks Do you think hope and faith are the same things? Faith and love seem to be the same to me, when you deeply and truly love someone that never dies, the same with faith you may not be actively engaged in practicing faith but it never goes away, IMHO. Just curious how you view hope vs. faith.

[SaharaSon]

Originally Posted by Trace14

Thanks Do you think hope and faith are the same things? Faith and love seem to be the same to me, when you deeply and truly love someone that never dies, the same with faith you may not be actively engaged in practicing faith but it never goes away, IMHO. Just curious how you view hope vs. faith.

Yep Trace, there definitely is a big connection. I think that hope and faith both depend on a spiritual existance. They both acknowledge that there is a well defined good or spirit(s) in the universe that we can not easily see in our normally percieved three demensional world. I've had a lot of Mathematics and a bit of Physics and it is as natural for me as breathing to know (not believe) that there are many many dimentions out there that our senses can't percieve. Just think of how a dog and cat can see or hear things long before we can. We have a very limited ability to sense radiation waves. It's Physics and Biology. Just because we can't easily grab hold of a spirit (or energy radiation), doesn't mean it's not there. I don't think a spirit ever dies (like energy it just changes form). Its one of the laws of thermodynamics: energy can not be created or destroyed (it just chances form). I think a spirit just moves from one host to another. I don't think a good spirit can be destroyed. Its too powerful. We are in transit Trace, this particular existance was never meant to be permenant. Just stay positive, keep helping others, it will all work out in the end (which goes on forever). Like the song says " There will be peace when the day is done". Shalom.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by SaharaSon

Yep Trace, there definitely is a big connection. I think that hope and faith both depend on a spiritual existance. They both acknowledge that there is a well defined good or spirit(s) in the universe that we can not easily see in our normally percieved three demensional world. I've had a lot of Mathematics and a bit of Physics and it is as natural for me as breathing to know (not believe) that there are many many dimentions out there that our senses can't percieve. Just think of how a dog and cat can see or hear things long before we can. We have a very limited ability to sense radiation waves. It's Physics and Biology. Just because we can't easily grab hold of a spirit (or energy radiation), doesn't mean it's not there. I don't think a spirit ever dies (like energy it just changes form). Its one of the laws of thermodynamics: energy can not be created or destroyed (it just chances form). I think a spirit just moves from one host to another. I don't think a good spirit can be destroyed. Its too powerful. We are in transit Trace, this particular existance was never meant to be permenant. Just stay positive, keep helping others, it will all work out in the end (which goes on forever). Like the song says " There will be peace when the day is done". Shalom.

I agree that the spirit never dies, that it ascends to a higher vibration. I'm glad because I wouldn't want to do this vibration again

[SaharaSon]

Trace, that's funny. You made me laugh hard. That is my second hard laugh today. I don't know if my heart can take it. Good one. Shalom.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by SaharaSon

Trace, that's funny. You made me laugh hard. That is my second hard laugh today. I don't know if my heart can take it. Good one. Shalom.

Glad you enjoyed It's good to have at least one good belly laugh a day. I'm about three years behind

[Oatter]

So sad. And also sad that I can identify.