[Trace14]

I used to make eye contact with people and read them. It wasn't a creepy eye contact but a contact that people could tell I was listening and cared. But I also read them as well. Now....I can hardly make eye contact with anyone, especially the group T. Not sure how it would be with the other group members because we all sit beside each other, the T is right in front of us.
I have always been suspicious of people who avoid eye contact. Now I'm that person
Anyone else have a drastic change in eye contact?

[Raindropvampire]

I went from afraid to make eye contact to full on eye contact so people know I'm listening and I can read them better.

I wonder why we progressed oppositely?

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by Raindropvampire

I went from afraid to make eye contact to full on eye contact so people know I'm listening and I can read them better.

I wonder why we progressed oppositely?

Good question.....things that make you go hmmmmmm Mine might be because my social anxiety has gotten much worse. And group therapy really hasn't helped that.
Any idea why yours changed?

[Raindropvampire]

I forced myself to face my fears and look people in the eye. I wasn't a kid anymore and I wasn't going to keep living my life too scared to look someone in the eye. It wasn't like I was going to get hit anymore for making eye contact(well I hope not and so far so good).

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by Raindropvampire

I forced myself to face my fears and look people in the eye. I wasn't a kid anymore and I wasn't going to keep living my life too scared to look someone in the eye. It wasn't like I was going to get hit anymore for making eye contact(well I hope not and so far so good).

That shows a lot of strength to do that and lot of emotional growth. Awesome job!

[Open Eyes]

Do you think this is because you fear others seeing "you"?

Trauma takes away from one's sense of safety and self confidence and ability to "trust" overall.

From what you have shared of yourself, you have been one to protect others from "seeing the bad", you did this all your life. This was something you deeply imprinted when you were not allowed to see something "bad" which was when you were not allowed to see what happened to your grandfather. You also saw how much that tragedy affected those who did see it. When that happened "you" were protected so you knew that was important, and important that you were shielded from "seeing the horror".

When your father did something tragic, no one protected you from seeing it. I think your mind is having a very hard time with this. This is not supposed to happen, especially for you in that you were so devoted to protecting others from seeing, to the point where you were exposed to some very horrific things. You were able to disconnect in that it was not personal to "you" and your effort was a form of protect/prevent/shield. This trauma is different, this is personal. Also, in that the equation of prevention is very different. This experience doesn't fit into how you navigated trauma before, no matter how bad it was, it was not "personal".

A doctor can work on many patients, deal with losses even, yet the entire equation becomes very different if that doctor fails to save/protect someone in his family where it becomes more personal. This is also similar to when soldiers form strong bonds with other soldiers and a soldier fails to protect another soldier that he deeply bonded with who is lost in the battle, it becomes so personal it dramatically changes the entire experience to becoming very personal loss.

You have been deeply traumatized when it comes to a "personal bond", so it would make sense that you shy away from personal bonds which begins through direct eye contact. You have a deep feeling that others would not be able to relate to "your" specific loss too and considering your history, you probably still see this horrific loss as something you need to protect others from hearing/seeing/relating to as well.

Personal Trauma changes us and if it is a big enough loss it can take a lot of time to "grieve" and learn to continue to live one's life which has been deeply affected by this personal trauma.

Honestly, sometimes. But not because I'm scared, per se. Usually I'm busy trying not to smell peoples' breath. XD

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Do you think this is because you fear others seeing "you"?

Trauma takes away from one's sense of safety and self confidence and ability to "trust" overall.

From what you have shared of yourself, you have been one to protect others from "seeing the bad", you did this all your life. This was something you deeply imprinted when you were not allowed to see something "bad" which was when you were not allowed to see what happened to your grandfather. You also saw how much that tragedy affected those who did see it. When that happened "you" were protected so you knew that was important, and important that you were shielded from "seeing the horror".

When your father did something tragic, no one protected you from seeing it. I think your mind is having a very hard time with this. This is not supposed to happen, especially for you in that you were so devoted to protecting others from seeing, to the point where you were exposed to some very horrific things. You were able to disconnect in that it was not personal to "you" and your effort was a form of protect/prevent/shield. This trauma is different, this is personal. Also, in that the equation of prevention is very different. This experience doesn't fit into how you navigated trauma before, no matter how bad it was, it was not "personal".

A doctor can work on many patients, deal with losses even, yet the entire equation becomes very different if that doctor fails to save/protect someone in his family where it becomes more personal. This is also similar to when soldiers form strong bonds with other soldiers and a soldier fails to protect another soldier that he deeply bonded with who is lost in the battle, it becomes so personal it dramatically changes the entire experience to becoming very personal loss.

You have been deeply traumatized when it comes to a "personal bond", so it would make sense that you shy away from personal bonds which begins through direct eye contact.

Thank you, that was an excellent post, very in depth and thoughtful. Who needs professionals to explain things when we have you here to help us through these questions and quandaries. You are a very wise person and a natural healer on the mental health plateau. I have said this for a long time though that you missed your calling. With all this online experience in talking with people, and listening through their words, being able to sort out and detect their pain, you would be an awesome online counselor. You could work from home
As always, thank you for the response.

[SoupDragon]

In my work I can maintain good eye contact generally, unless I feel unsafe. Rubbish at eye contact with my T though.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by Murderface

Honestly, sometimes. But not because I'm scared, per se. Usually I'm busy trying not to smell peoples' breath. XD

Welcome to PC Murderface. Ooooo if you are smelling people's breath you are way too close, IMHO. Maybe you have to be that close to people for your job or something, that would be too .....in my personal space.
Has the eye contact drastically changed at any point?

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

In my work I can maintain good eye contact generally, unless I feel unsafe. Rubbish at eye contact with my T though.

I agree, it's easier for eye contact with others, I think. Haven't really paid attention to that, but I will. Yes, with the T it's so different, but why? I'm there to share and get help, but it's like I'm trying to keep them out. Kind of defeating the purpose I think. Is it trust? Shame? Embarrassment? Feeling vulnerable? Truly complex.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by Trace14

I agree, it's easier for eye contact with others, I think. Haven't really paid attention to that, but I will. Yes, with the T it's so different, but why? I'm there to share and get help, but it's like I'm trying to keep them out. Kind of defeating the purpose I think. Is it trust? Shame? Embarrassment? Feeling vulnerable? Truly complex.

I think I can put my armour on out work. I am in control of the conversation. With T, it's like someone peering deeper into the actual "me". I hate being noticed in this way. I think partly shame and also because I have no idea of how to be the centre of attention.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I think I can put my armour on out work. I am in control of the conversation. With T, it's like someone peering deeper into the actual "me". I hate being noticed in this way. I think partly shame and also because I have no idea of how to be the centre of attention.

They say the eyes are the window to the soul. Maybe that's the issue with the T, we can't control how far inside they look. Do you ever feel like when you tell too much to the T that you have lost part of your soul or being. That you become this jellyfish of a person?