Any information about abuse by parents with PTSD?

Sigh....you know TheUrOther, with what I have been and am going through right now, even what I experienced just yesterday, it would be so easy for me to embrace your anger and desire to punish and MAKE someone see their wrongs that are hurting me so much.

Honestly, I sat here after hearing what my husband experienced when he tried to arrange with my older sister for me to have "private" time with my dying mother. Her response was "absolutely NOT" and then she proceeded to tell him lies about me, she accused me of doing things I never did. My sister is abusing the power she was given, what she has been doing is NOT anything either one of my parents wanted. She wants to hurt me to satisfy her own unmet needs that have NOTHING to do with me. I don't know HOW she can sit with my mother and hold my mother's hand while she is dying and deny my mother to experience me, because my mother did/does love me. This is not ANYTHING I could EVER do.

My sister is practicing the same thing you keep touting you want to do. She has created resentments in her mind and has embraced hate so much that she literally doesn't see how WRONG her behavior is. I am very hurt and very disappointed and very angry, it's definitely triggering the ptsd in me. Yet, I am NOT going to embrace some desire to hurt her back. That is not who I am as a person. The thing about bullies and abusers is they WANT you to engage because it keeps giving them a chance to hurt you even more, those are NOT the kind of people I want to connect with and befriend. Truth is, I have no respect for those kind of people either, I don't want them in my life either.

I believe that at one point you were a nice person, that these individuals who bullied you and even physically hurt you were "bad" people, and every time you tried to be friendly they only hurt you even more. Yes, there are people that are like that too, I have experienced them during my life and each time I am left with "how can someone be like that". YET, when this kind of person really WINS, is when they get YOU to be like that too. When they get that from you it empowers them with "see I was right that person is a bad person and not worthy".

What I have been learning is that when it comes to a toxic person or what is labelled "narcissists", is that these individuals do not want to KNOW what they are doing that is detrimental and toxic. No matter how much someone is nice to them or TRIES to help them see their dysfunctional behaviors, they simply don't GET IT and can only do things THEIR way and it's mostly about their need to have all the power and control.

My mother said to me at one point, "Your sister is jealous of you OE". I was in my 50's when she said that to me and I honestly did not see it so I was taken back by her saying that to me so matter of fact. I responded to her with, "how can you say that, what on earth does she have to be jealous about?". My mother's answer was, "OE, because you were always not only cute, but you were very social and friendly and talkative and your sister could not do that". I began to feel upset about this, I had loved my older sister and had been friendly and socible to her and I was always nice to her. I never tried to control her either and I really never was a 'counter" where she was always "keeping score". Looking back from where I am now and with what I have been learning, I can see the red flags that I missed. My sister never wanted to share my parents with two younger siblings. She really NEVER got over that and I can see it in a HUGE way now with what she has been choosing to do.

There is a part of me that is angry at my mother because if she did see this, she should have done something about it. What my older sister is doing right now as I am sitting here writing this is she is taking JOY in denying me alone time with my mother so SHE can have it all to herself. She has such a STRONG need to feel that SHE is the better child and most deserving. It's so sad to me that my mother is dying and my sister is sitting there completely controlling her need to HAVE my mother all to herself right up to my mother's very LAST BREATH. That my sister NEEDS everyone to believe that she is the GOOD CHILD and I am the threat and bad. HOW sad it that??????

Actually, reading all your input and desire to punish and withhold and this whole concept of carrots and stick treatement, your resentments and your idea of justice is educating me, BUT, not in the way you think or desire. My older sister is ANGRY and RESENTFUL , and she is choosing to take this out on me.

Truth is, just about every flashback I experience is about that too. It's always about someone taking THEIR ANGER out on me. I am interacting with you here in your thread and everything I say is met with YOU DON'T GET IT and YOU ARE STUPID IF YOU DON'T GET IT, you make it a point to pick out every thing I say and react with YOUR ANGER and need for JUSTICE and PUNISHMENT. I gotta be honest with you, this is something I have experienced many times over in my life and I have so many times where I was raged at too.

Well, no matter how many times you try to convince me, you are NOT going to get me to turn into a BULLY. You have asked about abuse by parents with PTSD, and what I can say is that if a parent is struggling with ptsd and struggles where they blow up in rages at their own child, when they show resentments and they can't really love that child because of their own damage, the product can become a child that carries deep resentments and an obsessive need for control. And people can get hurt by that, innocent people.

Everytime I am exposed to my sister, be it on the phone or in person, it makes me ill. Her presence is SO NEGATIVE to me that I can't stand being around it. She sits there alone, she is looking for sympathy and the reason she IS alone is because of her insistence on punishing and controlling and she blows up if she doesn't get it and she invades people's space to the point where people are repelled by her.

I have shared how I witnessed my older brother constantly being abused and bullied. He had/has ADHD and Dyslexia and he was punished for it, when it was not his fault, just how his brain was wired. He could have turned out to be a bad and mean bully and punish others. But he ended up stepping away from the toxic in his own family and wanted to be different. I was not sure how he would be after my not seeing him for about 20 years. He moved away and got busy in his life with his own family and making his way. We began to interact again because of my parents decline. And one day my brother walked up to me with a deep desire to sit with me to appologize for how he was with me in our childhood. He has been the only one WILLING to express a desire to let me know he regretted and wanted to care enough to talk about it with me. He has made it a point many times to let me know he knew I was and am a nice person too. I also want to add that my parents took my brother to see a psychiatrist because he struggled to sit and pay attention in school. This psychiatrist told my parents "NO coddling for him at all, you much instead constantly dicipline him". This is the WRONG advice and this is what started my father taking him out to a shed and hitting him on his backside with a belt. I was so little and watching that terrified and confused me.

Yesterday I was so hurt and angry about how my sister responded to my husband who wanted to help me get to experience private time alone with my mother. My husband said it was very hard for him to remain calm because of how MEAN AND EVIL my sister was, and what she spewed out. He knows I never did anything she insists on accusing me of doing too. He has witnessed her rage at me and be mean to me too. He hates what he is witnessing. He is disgusted by it. The answer is not to react and turn into a bully.

I am so sorry you have been abused, but to embrace hate and anger is not the answer. All it really does is give bullies and toxic people what they want so they can say you are the bad one in the picture.

I think it is just a measure of how great the anger is...

YES! pachyderm, that is exactly what it means.

@Open Eyes:


I am not "embracing hate".

I am neither a narcissist or a bully.

I am "so interested in punishment" because all I have experienced from humanity is punishment - every action I perform is punished, no matter how good it is. It's never good enough for you people, so you punish everything I do. It's never a case where I can do something "right" so I do not get punished; it's always the case of minimizing but never fully avoiding punishment. That's why I'm dying; the constant punishment has destroyed my body.

You all punish me constantly, but you all never get punished. What is so horrible about me that I have to be punished all the time? Why do you get to screw up infinitely to the point where you're destroying the planet but you never get punished? Why the double standard?

I do feel persecuted because I am persecuted! That is exactly what's happening! And you have to be truly demented and a sadist to think that I like dying from everyone's beatings.

Punishment is how people learn right from wrong; it is the foundation of civilization - and YES it is every person's duty to punish bad behavior! Jesus wept, how can you get something so fundamental so wrong? Every unpunished person goes on to do bad things because they've never learned what they're doing is wrong. Learning right from wrong doesn't stop at 18 either - everyone must be punished fairly and accurately in order to know what is right and what is wrong.

Let me be clear - I'm not talking random, arbitrary punishment; that's abuse. I'm talking the proper punishment for what ever wrongdoing occurs. One can be wrongfully over-punished as they can be wrongfully under-punished. Both are incorrect.

First, do you really expect me to take on faith that you're supporting me? Do you really think I'm that stupid? There is no outward difference between those who are supporting and those who pretend to support in order to ambush. The only real difference is that the true supporters are too rare for them to be a benefit - the cost of accepting their support is greater than the support they give; I literally running a loss every time I accept help.

Furthermore, I challenge everything you say even when it is genuine because the circumstances I live under is so extreme. Your help unchallenged won't survive exposure to the enemy. It has to be near-perfect in order to actually work in that environment. You don't understand that because whatever you've gone through, it's not as constant and omnipresent as my hostile conditions. Your suffered abuse comes from one or a few people; my abuse comes from everyone, at all times. If I don't challenge your suggestions, they will fly apart in the face of battle, and can injure me in the process. They must be human-proofed before I can use it.

People decided to ostracize me to the point of murdering me as a purely arbitrary decision. I did nothing to these people - I was constantly trying to be nice to these people - and they tortured me and murdered me. If you can't understand why that would make someone angry, I can't understand you.

I'm dying. "Health" is no longer an option. I've proven that nothing will change what I want changed, because human beings are willing to die and kill to keep things the way they are. The whole reason I had my massive personality change was because I knew it was pointless to try any more. The time to negotiate with the terrorists is over.

I put in all the times you answered me including me as if I personally abused and hurt you by using YOU, I did no such thing to you. When you respond to people who are trying to be supportive and talk to you, you can trigger them because of how you answer like each person personally did something to you, try to use people have done this or that to me. I do not know you, you don't even know me so please dont blame me for something I simply did not do to you. Something that can work better in interacting OK? (I can get triggered because of what I am experiencing right now in being blamed for things I never did. That's me personally, but I bet other PTSD/complex PTSD members posting here can relate especially if they have been emotionally abused, even physically for that matter.)

As long as you are part of the human species, you are partially responsible for their actions - you all hold me responsible for everyone's actions AND DON'T GIVE ME ANY NONSENSE ABOUT HOW YOU THE INDIVIDUAL DON'T HOLD ME RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!!! YES YOU DO! You would not be arguing with me if you actually thought other people's actions are the responsibility of those people; this argument is all about me bearing the cost of the actions of other people. If you want exoneration for yourself, you need to find the people who did this to me and punish them yourself. I can't do it; the only way I can free from their tyranny is to make you do it. No, that's not fair - but if you all had nipped this in the bud in the first place, you would not be in a position where you have to do this now. I will hold you responsible for other people's actions, just as you have held me responsible for other people's actions. That is the only support you can give me. That is the only support that will be effective; everything else is a waste of time.

I am not holding you responsible for the abuse and neglect you experienced from other people. I believe you needed help and were failed and no teacher or Adult or even pier reached out and helped you. It's understandable that you would feel so much anger like you do because of that too. It is awful to experience abuse and suffer and no one steps up to help you. Other members here can relate to what that feels like. Yes, that can lead to the kind of anger you are venting here.

Everyone not on this board does - most importantly, everyone who can give me a job does. They all think either my abuse is my fault - or that I was not abused at all - and they expect me to do better than them without any of the resources they have and are keeping away from me.

I believe you as unfortunately, there are a lot of people that blame the victims. That is something many members can relate to as well here. A lot of the time abusers have power and influence that can make it even harder for a victim to get the right help and be believed.

Therein lies the problem; I have no power or influence because the abusers have it all, and make a point of diligently maintaining that power and influence, to the point where they have effectively made all of humanity their assistants - witting, willing, or not. That's why I say everyone abuses me; you don't have to know you're doing an abuser's will to do it effectively.

Also, I think there's some congruency with what is called rape culture - that's another facet of what I'm experiencing; except that's focusing (mostly) on women. But it's all the same pervasive, abusive environment set up by bullies, for bullies. Whether you're someone targeted for rape or someone targeted for ostracism, the environment is engineered to facilitate the actions of predators to do both. My abuse is not some one-off thing, executed by just my parents or a couple people - it is a constant feature of the environment, an environment that extends everywhere humans are. I can't go anywhere to escape the abuse because while the abuse itself is done by people, the environment facilitates abuse so much non-abusers can't survive, much less become a dominant force. The "caring people" you insist exist may as well not, because the environment prevents them from acting effectively. Their efforts and the results of which are erased just like all of my efforts and their results.

This is why it's so important to punish abusers to the point where they physically cannot act - the only way to successfully change the environment is to prevent abusers from maintaining it how it is or changing it back once we improve it.

And that is something that simply cannot be achieved. So you will fail again.

In addition, it ties you emotionally to them -- you feel they have all the power, you have none.

Punishing people just produces more people who want to punish in revenge... Unless you completely break all those who have damaged you. Can you do that?

The only way out that I see is to become independent of those abusers, so your life, and even how you react to them, is not determined by them. I have not found this easy to do, but I think it is the only way to succeed. When you can decrease reacting to them with fear and anger, you can start to see that, internally, they don't feel powerful at all. Just the opposite. They feel frightened, on the edge of disintegration. That is why they must react violently. It's a way to discharge the distress they feel.

It has nothing to do with "feelings" - it's a practical matter of physical numbers and strength. No single person can defeat a properly-executed dogpile. It doesn't matter what I feel; it matters what these people can do. If you still think emotions are a factor then you're underestimating the problem, and what these people can do.

But that's not punishment - punishment is strictly active discouragement of bad behavior; punishment itself is not bad behavior, therefore actions fighting against punishment cannot itself be "punishment" - those are simply defiant behaviors.


What choice do I have? It's literally kill or be killed - the people against me are trying to kill me, and will do so regardless of what action I take. The punishment I dole out is, for all intents and purposes, self-defense. The only alternative is letting them kill me, because they will perform no other action, no matter how I behave.

You're partially right, in that they feel frightened for their lives, but they simultaneously can't feel "not powerful"; the concept is literally beyond them. If they didn't feel powerful, they would have responded positively to my pleas for peace, but they only saw such negotiations as a weakness. They have one-track minds - I must be destroyed, even if that means destroying themselves in the process; they see my destruction as a moral imperative, a direct command from God.

They will not allow any "independence" from them; they will chase me wherever I run, they will tear down or vault any barriers or boundaries I set up. They behave like a platoon on a suicide mission. They will not allow anything to stop them - not the law, not my efforts, nothing. They are fanatics to their cause, blind with rage and delusional with false ideas.

I have been fighting for my independence since I was a child, but as long as I don't own my own land, grow my own food, cure my own diseases, and put up a physically-impenetrable shield of some kind, I will never be rid of these people. Every dependence on any human being is a route they can and do use to cripple me.

Yes, I believe you. Human beings definitely practice some very unhealthy behaviors where they can only see others who are different as a threat, even to the point where they want to eliminate and shun and reject. Class, race, culture, religion, political beliefs, social status, to name just a few of the areas human beings can look at others who are different as a threat and bad.

If you recognize this, then why are you arguing against me?

Can you relate one or two particular instances of people whom, or situations that you think are particularly bad examples?

I don't have episodic memory, so I don't remember specific events. All I remember are patterns of behavior.

What I'm describing are basic economic truths. I cannot participate in the economy or in society without consent from the people involved; if none of them consent, then I can't participate. Even if some members can overpower any who do consent, I can't participate. Only when those who consent can overpower those who refuse to consent, can I participate. Those who might consent will never have the numbers or economic or political power, even if they did exist - Not even you all deny the existence and will of the strongest objectors; they alone are sufficient to guarantee my ostracism.

I was hoping you could relate some instance where you personally were ostracized. It might make it more concrete for me to visualize.

Again, no episodic memory; they all get blended into the same pattern-matching system. My mind makes a point of de-instancing memories; per-instance solutions are too costly to test and implement one-by-one - if I can't generalize a solution, I can't afford to implement it.

What is with everyone's obsession with instances, anyway? Nothing I know came from instances; everything I have learned I know from generalized principles. I only memorized times tables for the sake of speed; every math function and every other fact of life I know from generic instruction, not specific example. Details are just useless noise and people who obsess over meaningless details are toxic.

If you're asking for "concrete instances", you'll never be in the right mindset to "visualize" or understand anything about me or what I've been through. My life is a life without meaningless, resource-sapping detail.