No is a complete sentence

Anyone else with cPTSD feel like they are always having to justify things they like, do, don't do, want, their life in general to others? Unless I'm in a court of law, it's no one's business but my own why I do one thing or another. Why do I always feel like I have to explain myself? I don't have to. I have every right to simply say no or yes or do whatever I want without having to explain myself to someone else.

If I'm not working today, then I'm not, no one is owed any explanation. But for some reason I feel I have to appease other people and that I'm always wrong, even explaining my rational for doing the most minor thing.

I am a believer that "that which is not distinguished, runs you." But I don't think that means having to explain to others why I do one thing or another. My reasons for doing one thing or another, for working or not working, are my business, not someone else's. And yet the second someone demands an explanation, I have a full blown panic attack AND feel like I owe them some sort of response, when I don't.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Oh god yes. I got another invitation for a neighbors zoom meeting. I unintentionally slept thru the last one. I have been trying to get off the invite list for the last 3 years.

I just feel like, i dont live up to some level of socialization that this group feels it is their godly mission to help me meet.

I want something PERSONAL from people if i am going to spend time with them, and i just dont get any of it from these folks. I dont know why.

So yeah, what you said. Somehow they dont see me or hear me. But they want me to answer "present". But it is such an effort for me with them.

Yes, Unaluna. They want you to participate, you don't want to, and yet they feel you owe them some explanation other than "no."

I relate. Been off work for over a year but a former coworker told me my work bully died young from cancer. Felt pressured to attend the funeral and my former coworker wanted to catch up over lunch.

I didn't feel I could say no and almost went along. I felt "no" without a plausible excuse would be bulldozed over with "why?!" so I ended up lying about a friend needing me to accompany her to a doctor's appointment.

I feel like I have to justify everything I do or don't do. For example, I would get flak for eating lunch alone, because people felt I was being "unsocial", even after I explained I'm introverted. When I had to attend therapy during working hours (allowed, was my right as long as I made up the time), my boss wouldn't accept "medical appointment", but just had to know why I was seeing a psychologist etc. I told a half truth that it was anxiety and family issues but he had no right to pry and worse, hold my condition against me in work reviews even though I always made deadlines and made up the time. Even though HR didn't even care and accepted it without any questions.

Just wanted to say I can totally relate.

I sometimes think it was part of the programming (along with the brainwashing & gas lighting) my abusers inflicted.

They never had to make an excuse for their actions but somehow made me feel that I have to.

It's really messed up and I hope to be able to overcome it one day, but at 60 years of age I'm beginning to wonder if it's at all possible.

I'm also tired of people telling me I'm weird.

They'd be weird too if they'd survived 33.5 years of domestic violence, incest & abuse.

I'm glad I'm nothing like the people I came from but I'm sad that it still impacts me today.

Pfrog, I totally hear you. I grew up with so much abuse and it was the same. Expected to explain everything all the time, but my abusers never had to justify anything.

Never allowed to have my own likes or dislikes or opinions, so always having to justify why I don't like something or don't want to do something, instead of just being able to say no.

I think this challenge is normal yet is magnified with the ptsd. I think with ptsd a person experiences anxiety about doing anything and it’s part of an effort to calm that extra anxiety down. The amygdala is more sensitive after trauma therefore the person experiences more emotion than someone who doesn’t have ptsd. It’s a lot of work to manage ptsd and some have it worse than others.

When we are young in our childhood we don't really understand what having boundaries means. When a child is between two or three and sometimes actually even younger one word that a child does start to use is "no". Before that a child will turn their head away, or may put a hand out in an effort to push away, they will do this even when being spoon fed something that doesn't taste good to them. A child slowly learns what boundaries means emotionally, but, the child doesn't have any language skills to communicate these feelings.

What I learned simply through experiencing flashbacks is that our bodies and part of our brain remembers our early childhood more than we realize. So, if a child had a hard time feeling safe it can predispose that child to possibly developing ptsd if something bad enough happens. Also, growing up in an enviornment where parents or siblings don't respect boundaries means that child can have a harder time with boundaries and may even consider certain types of invaded boundaries "normal" and that can create problems later.

We are by nature designed to learn how to navigate whatever environment we are introduced to and that includes the kind of human beings we are growing up with experiencing. Therefore, there are behaviors that may not be ideal or even healthy, but, when we are young we don't know that but instead we just learn how to navigate whatever kind of behaviors we experience or witness. We begin to think these behaviors are actually "normal". After all, we genuinely do not know any different when we are young children.

So, if it was hard to be able to say "no" and have that respected, it's reasonable to say this can be something a person may feel even as an adult.

I like this! Very well thought out discussion.

Saying no is hard after living in an abusive environment that instills toxic shame. Breaking these patterns is next to impossible in a world where people often expect yes, especially from us sensitive, empathic types.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Thanks, HD! Yes, even after posting this, I'm still struggling. I said yes to a last minute job from an unknown client and that was not a good decision. Fortunately it's over now. I put post-its above my computer monitors that say "Say No!" So I remember to set boundaries with things that I cannot do.

The idea of being empathic always struck me as a silly notion. (Sorry, not meant to offend anyone who subscribes to that notion.) And while I don't really subscribe to the whole idea of there being "empaths", I do think that some of us pick up on other people's emotions more instinctively, and are more affected by those emotions. I don't think it's a special power. I think it's a honed muscle. I know that I tend to overly-identify with how other people feel, and sometimes get pulled into saying "yes" to things I don't want to, because of my empathy for that person. When one of my friends wants to vent late at night (not in crisis), and I need to sleep, I can find it hard to say no, because I feel strongly for them. But it's not just with friends, I tend to identify with how other people feel and want to help more than is healthy. Setting boundaries is crucial.

However, in setting boundaries, I have found that it can show you who is "safe" and who is not. For example, I didn't require this last minute client to do a phone call with me before accepting the work. That was a big mistake. If I had set my boundary and they refused, so I declined the work, I would be spared the small amount of discomfort at the close of this contract (it was just weird all around). But that red flag - I kept asking for a call and getting ignored, told me what I needed to know. And despite my empathy for them wanting to meet their deadline, I put myself at their mercy by accepting the work.

Like I said, no is a complete sentence.

Oof, actually had this happen today. A client and I agreed I'd have something ready for a meeting. I'm working on it, its like 5 hours before the meeting, and the client starts asking me if they can review prior. I panic a bit but just say "no". Then keep working but all the while staving off a minor panic attack. It was all fine. But here I am freaking out about the N word, lol.

Oh yes.....I get all the time, "How come you do not make Youtube videos?", how come you don't do this with your business, how come, how come, how COME!!

It makes me feel ashamed of myself that I am not living up to their standards.

Just breathing is hard enough as it is. Just existing on a daily basis is hard enough. I a doing what I am capable of doing.

Hey Moxie! Long time no see! I'm glad you're still here. Hope you've managed okay during the pandemic.

Thank you so much for commiserating with me. I so get what you are saying about feeling like you don't live up to someone's standards. "So and so does XYZ, why don't you do XYZ?" Because I don't and I don't have to explain to you! That's what I want to say anyhow.

The funny thing I notice is that lately, after posting this, I've been trying to just say "no" when I need to, and honestly people have been fairly okay with it. I always expect them to ask why, but that's because of my abuse. I think most people in the world are reasonable and if you say "no" they just accept it, or they ask what can you do instead if they need something. Like I've had people make requests, and I say no, and then they say, well, is there a way you can help me with X? And then I say how I can help and they are very happy that I said no because apparently what I suggest is way better. Go figure. Sometimes saying no is good for both sides...

Glad to see you're still on this side of the soil, Moxie!

This is totally off topic, but do you think that saying no is essentially the same thing as getting in touch with our anger?

Thanks,
HD

Oh I am still on this side of the soil. Struggling as usual and no real therapy to help. This pandemic has severely set me back mentally. My husbands cancer, less work means less money, anger as I want to punch the dumb asses in the face who defy masks and science. Yeah, I am struggling daily. I honestly do not know if I can continue to keep my head above the water and not let all my dark thoughts and feelings consume me to the point I give up. I am trying.

Hugs to you, Moxie. I didn't know about your husband's cancer. I can only imagine how hard it must be. Keep talking to us here. We are here for you.

Every time I say "no" I feel like a failure that can't live up to someone else's standards. Doesn't stop me from doing it. Screw what they think.

Hi,

Yes, I always have to like justify the reason behind any no I give. Especially in regards to people who have wanted to date me. They want to hear the reason behind the no if I don’t want to date them.

Dear Seesaw, First of all, I commend you for explaining it so well. I too used to explain my every movement. For over 60 years. I was seeking that atta girl approval. You're right! We don't need to explain. It's exhausting. And, nobody is in our body who understands. Kudos to you from me. Not that you need it. You just need to know it. Own it. And believe it. Hugs...

Dear HD, saying no shouldn't be said in anger. By then, we've had it. No, is a simple 2 letter word. It's okay to just say no. I sometimes get myself in a jam by saying yes. Inside, my guts are saying no. If I ignore them, that's when I am being ignorant. Just say'n. Hugs...

I can relate, though when it comes to certain life choices I’ve made, I’m Teflon coated when it comes to other people’s criticisms/requests for me to justify myself - namely staying single and not wanting children. A lot of other things, though? Yeah, I also feel I have to justify myself and feel bad about things I like if others don’t, including hobbies and musical taste. I’ve got a bit better over time, though.
We’re all different and I frequently remind myself there’s no reason I have to mirror anyone else to the point I lose myself.
It’s better to be disliked for who you are than liked because you’re being what other people want.

A self help book I read said to not rescue someone, rather don’t offer to help and let them handle it by themselves. So I tried this with the latest from my mother; a broken faucet issue she catastrophized. But, it gave me nightmares that night. In the morning, I transferred a few hundred dollars to her account as my contribution to help. She hadn’t outright asked me for the money. It’s just that she is in a situation where she has very little cash flow, so she harps on my sympathy whenever we speak. I coughed up the money to ease my conscience and to not feel traumatized. I have a long way to go to get to No is a complete answer.

P.s. The next time I called her she had no recollection she had even told me about the faucet and that I had helped at all. She again told me about the trauma of fixing the faucet, total catastrophizing, and zero memory of how i had given her the money to have had a professional handle the whole thing.

Someone demanding an explanation? We owe them no response.

Hugs and respect

I don't have cPTSD, but I've experienced this with my freelance work. I choose the projects I accept carefully, based on my mental and emotional stability at that time. When I decline the offer, I get so many questions not from clients but from acquaintances and other professionals. Most of the time, I just say that there's a mismatch between me and my client. Another reason I say is that it's not very profitable or the deadlines are too tight. The real reason in many cases is that I'm just not okay. They often question me and say that I'm wasting opportunities because I'm very picky. I'm just choosy because I'm trying to take care of my mental health, but I can't say that. No one accepts that way of thinking. I can't just say no without me being labeled as incompetent and lazy.