[MacEvan]

I wonder whether any of this makes sense to anyone. I want to make clear that I’m not ashamed now of the experience I’m talking about; but I’m curious about why I was ashamed at the time, about the way shame can attach itself to incidents that aren’t in principle shameful. My mother was a nurse and I was glad of that as a little boy (I remember telling her so) because when I was ill she could look after me and make me better. But as I grew older I came to resent this concern with my health. It seemed to me it was excessive, marking me off from ‘normal’ boys. I was prone to heavy colds and was taken to the doctor, who diagnosed sinusitis. In the end I had to have an operation for it (a sinus washout, it is called). This seemed to me not something that would make me better and happier but something imposed on me against my will: it wasn’t like having to have your appendix out because it is causing you terrible pain. I experienced it (this sounds melodramatic, I know) as a kind of violation. My response was shame and anger (I had learned early on that the two, for me, went together): I wouldn’t tell anyone else I was going to hospital for an operation, and once when my father mentioned it to an acquaintance I embarrassed him with my protests. Besides, I would have to be put to sleep for it and I hated the idea of being unconscious. I don’t think it ever occurred to me to talk to my parents about what I felt. Anyway, I went into hospital for the operation. They put me to sleep, and I woke up from the anaesthetic feeling sick but that soon wore off. The nurses were kind to me, and in retrospect it wasn’t such a bad experience. I was well enough to go home three days later. But for about a year afterwards I regarded the days of the week as lucky or unlucky, depending on whether I’d been in hospital on a given day or not. My image of myself had been hurt. Perhaps to compensate I continued to indulge in grandiose fantasies of being a war hero or sporting champion, for neither of which I had the necessary qualities. But when I first came across the word ‘narcissistic’ in my early teens (without it being clearly explained) I knew that this was me. It took me a while to realize that shame can be linked with narcissism.

[Skeezyks]

Hello MacEvan: Thanks for sharing your experience. When I was a teenager, I had a hernia. It meant that I could not play sports in school, which may or may not have been of significance. For the most part, my parents didn't pay much attention to my health needs. I'm an older person &, when I was young, people only went to the doctor or the dentist if they absolutely had to. Anyway, when I was around 16 or 17, my parents did decide to have my hernia repaired. So I had to go into the hospital. This was a small town general hospital... no children's unit. I landed in a bed in a ward next to some old geezer who, I'm pretty sure was dying of cancer or something equally gruesome.

On the first day I was in the hospital, I recall a nurse asking me what I was there for. And when I told her, she gave me this look, like it was something sort-of smutty... sort-of like how did a young man like you manage to get something like that? And so for a long time thereafter, even though I knew better, there was a part of me that wondered if I had done something wrong.

[MacEvan]

Thank you, Skeezyks, for replying and sharing your experience. I have heard it said that shame is the feeling of being completely defined by someone else's perception, and this seems to fit what you are describing. The wondering whether you have done something wrong is a painful feeling. It seems unbelievable a health professional could be so insensitive. Best wishes, MacEvan.

[marmaduke]

It took me a while to realize that shame can be linked with narcissism.
I don't think shame has anything to do with narcissism. What make you think you are narcissistic?

[Skeezyks]

Hi MacEvan: It is interesting that I still remember this after all these years. It was half a century ago!

[FireIsland123]

Unfortunately, narcissism is one of our biggest defenses against shame. Inside we are hurting, so we crave (or demand) all this admiration from others. Eventually, they tire of it and we can't understand why we're alone. It takes a lot of work to change that, but awareness is the first step. Take care and good luck.

[DBTDiva]

Originally Posted by FireIsland123

Unfortunately, narcissism is one of our biggest defenses against shame. Inside we are hurting, so we crave (or demand) all this admiration from others. Eventually, they tire of it and we can't understand why we're alone. It takes a lot of work to change that, but awareness is the first step. Take care and good luck.

My boyfriend was dxed with NPD and there was definitely a shame component to it for him. It was all about creating a persona of someone infallable and always in control, always having the answer.

In order to bolster themselves from shame, the narcissist hides behind a mask of grandiosity, but if you shame them, and cause that mask to slip, you will become a victim of their rage.

I had to look this up and this statement was the closest I came to understanding. It also hit me like a tonnne of bricks at the sudden realisation I was looking at my ex-husband.

[MacEvan]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

It took me a while to realize that shame can be linked with narcissism.
I don't think shame has anything to do with narcissism. What make you think you are narcissistic?

I am sure that there are many kinds of shame. I think some of the posts below show how there can be a connection with narcissism, but I am grateful for your question, because it reminds me that one should be careful applying terms like that to oneself.

[MacEvan]

Originally Posted by FireIsland123

Unfortunately, narcissism is one of our biggest defenses against shame. Inside we are hurting, so we crave (or demand) all this admiration from others. Eventually, they tire of it and we can't understand why we're alone. It takes a lot of work to change that, but awareness is the first step. Take care and good luck.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for your good wishes, and mine to you.

[avlady]

i don't really think you are being as narsassistic as you think you are. your body was in need of repair, like taking our cars to the shop to be repaired. maybe you couldn't admit or were in denial that something serious was going on in you body that you couldn't control.

[MacEvan]

Originally Posted by avlady

i don't really think you are being as narsassistic as you think you are. your body was in need of repair, like taking our cars to the shop to be repaired. maybe you couldn't admit or were in denial that something serious was going on in you body that you couldn't control.

Thank you so much for your kind words. They make a lot of sense to me. I am sure there was an element of denial: perhaps I was just frightened, and couldn't admit it.

[MacEvan]

Originally Posted by avlady

i don't really think you are being as narsassistic as you think you are. your body was in need of repair, like taking our cars to the shop to be repaired. maybe you couldn't admit or were in denial that something serious was going on in you body that you couldn't control.

The time I really felt physically humiliated was a few years later when I fainted in front of my mother. I've posted about this separately. I'm not ashamed now of the fainting but still a bit of my reaction afterwards and perhaps most of still thinking about it.

What about shame and responsibility? We often feel a sense of responsibility for that which shames us. But, I'm not so sure a narccistic will even consider being responsible for what shames them.

[MacEvan]

That seems very true. And perhaps the sense of responsibility is unjustified.

I just say that because every instance of my shame - and I feel ashamed for a lot in my life - has a corresponding link to responsibility. I feel that either I made it happen, or I didn't do what I should have to prevent it happening. Then I feel a great deal of anger at the frustration I feel, towards myself, or towards those and that which is around me. I have on ocassion lashed out or made a rash decision because of this anger.

[MacEvan]

I can well understand how a feeling of shame can lead to lashing out in anger: it has often been so in my experience. I hope you can find a way to break this link.

[ChipperMonkey]

Yeah but the narcissistic person made one mistake!

Narcissism isn't the cure for shame.

Only dealing with healing the root core of shame will make it go away.

Guess those narcissists aren't so smart after all! LOL.