How I understood and then escaped

vital · Oct 17, 2015 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnobody

Wow! This sounds really good and so simple an explanation about what is happening. Even better there is a simple solution to implement! But there are some things I am wondering about. This thread has been here a long time is there are a reason why the depressed members here have not embraced this on mass? And why doesn't the American Psychological Association know about this and implement it? www dot apa dot org/about

Hi mrnobody. Thanks for the kind words. Even assuming that this is correct, these things take time to spread and be understood. I am in touch with several psychologists in the Boston area and we are going to present this to a second round of depression patients at a local hospital next week. From online and in person reactions, I am already pretty convinced that this really is how depression works, at least in many cases. We'll know more soon enough, but in the mean time, it's a safe, easy and fun thing for anyone to try.

SNAP! - vital

ajohnson45 · Oct 18, 2015 at 08:05 AM

now, I don't completely agree with the snapping but I do believe in how changing your mindset is the first step. for me it really helped. yesterday I had my first date with a girl and I thought I would never ever have any connections with girls last year.

Freewilled · Oct 18, 2015 at 08:31 AM

Hi vital,

It has now been 12 days since I started snapping and still doing very well

This makes me want to tell everyone about it - how can I keep it to myself?? I just took the sanity quiz on this site and scored 62! I ranged from 125-148 a year+ ago. That's amazing to me. And I have no doubt that if I'd taken the quiz over 12 days ago I would've scored just as high. I know it's not necessarily a reliable test but it's interesting to me.

I told my therapist about SNAP club too and she is passing it on to some of her other clients. I also shared this with my mom who has had depression as long as I can remember...

I forgot to mention that I had childhood depression, with my first memory of suicidal ideation from when I was about 10 years old.

vital · Oct 18, 2015 at 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freewilled

Hi vital,

It has now been 12 days since I started snapping and still doing very well

This makes me want to tell everyone about it - how can I keep it to myself?? I just took the sanity quiz on this site and scored 62! I ranged from 125-148 a year+ ago. That's amazing to me. And I have no doubt that if I'd taken the quiz over 12 days ago I would've scored just as high. I know it's not necessarily a reliable test but it's interesting to me.

I told my therapist about SNAP club too and she is passing it on to some of her other clients. I also shared this with my mom who has had depression as long as I can remember...

I forgot to mention that I had childhood depression, with my first memory of suicidal ideation from when I was about 10 years old.

Hey Freewilled,

I'm so glad you're doing so well. You have wonderful things to look forward to, I think

. Thanks for telling your mom and your therapist. I want to help as many people as possible with this, and that could be a LOT of people. There are already lots of downloads of the notes from all over the world. I made a new set of notes for real-life patients that we are meeting tomorrow at a hospital here in Boston.

http://egg.bu.edu/~youssef/SNAP_CLUB/BA.pdf

I hope you don't mind that I used your original post in the notes.

I was also depressed from the time I was a very young boy.

Not anymore.

SNAP! - vital

Freewilled · Oct 18, 2015 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vital

Hey Freewilled,

I'm so glad you're doing so well. You have wonderful things to look forward to, I think

. Thanks for telling your mom and your therapist. I want to help as many people as possible with this, and that could be a LOT of people. There are already lots of downloads of the notes from all over the world. I made a new set of notes for real-life patients that we are meeting tomorrow at a hospital here in Boston.

http://egg.bu.edu/~youssef/SNAP_CLUB/BA.pdf

I hope you don't mind that I used your original post in the notes.

I was also depressed from the time I was a very young boy.

Not anymore.

SNAP! - vital

Thank you for sharing that with me - I don't mind you using my post at all

I hope it helps. I'll keep you updated as time goes on....there really are no words to express how I feel about all of this. But it's nice to check in here and talk to someone who understands. I'm cautiously optimistic that this will continue and so glad to hear it's been working for you for over a year now.

Take care,
Freewilled

vital · Oct 21, 2015 at 10:55 PM

Hi everybody,

If the theory behind SNAP CLUB is correct, then you would expect that the part of the brain that's used for decision making would be under-active for people who have depression. So I've been reading about this lately and the best candidate I see is a region of the brain called the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex. The dorsolateral prefrontal cortex has been primarily associated with executive function, intention formation, goal-directed action, abstract reasoning and attentional control. It very much sounds like this area of the brain would be critical and activated when someone is making a decision as in SNAP CLUB.

So guess what? Brain fMRI scans, brain lesion studies and brain stimulation studies all agree: dorsolateral prefrontal cortex activity is suppressed in depressed people. In fact, when they do TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) or DBS (electric deep brain stimulation), the area that they are trying to stimulate to help depression or PTSD is exactly the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex! This is exactly what you'd expect if the theory behind SNAP CLUB is really right.

- vital

Thisisme586 · Nov 03, 2015 at 06:48 PM

I'm curios if you are healed still holds true today? I don't buy into being able to be cured maybe mask it

vital · Nov 03, 2015 at 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisisme586

I'm curios if you are healed still holds true today? I don't buy into being able to be cured maybe mask it

It still holds true for me, Thisisme586. It is the most amazing relief. I wish the same for you.

- vital

mrnobody · Nov 06, 2015 at 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vital

Hi mrnobody. Thanks for the kind words. Even assuming that this is correct, these things take time to spread and be understood. I am in touch with several psychologists in the Boston area and we are going to present this to a second round of depression patients at a local hospital next week. From online and in person reactions, I am already pretty convinced that this really is how depression works, at least in many cases. We'll know more soon enough, but in the mean time, it's a safe, easy and fun thing for anyone to try.

SNAP! - vital

It would be incredibly easy to test it. Has there been a single study? If not why not?

vital · Nov 06, 2015 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnobody

It would be incredibly easy to test it. Has there been a single study? If not why not?

I don't know of a controlled study, but doing a study like that is a fine idea. What I know at this point comes from showing this to two groups of depression patients at a hospital here in Boston (about 20 patients in total) and from feedback from some people who tried it on PC (there have also been many thousands of downloads of the notes from all over the world).

Besides SNAP CLUB being an effective treatment for depression, the prediction would also be that the set of symptoms on page 15 of the notes is a sharper indicator of depression than the standard set of symptoms. I would also predict that when SNAPping, fMRIs should show that the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex is activated (the same region targeted by TMS for depression). Practicing SNAP CLUB consistently should show an increased resting activation of the dlPFC and those seeing this effect should get relief from depression. I'm not sure how to quantify it, but the theory also predicts that depression gets worse when things change in your life so that your habitual behaviors no longer work. This would be the explanation for why, for instance, so many people get into trouble when they leave home to go to college or change jobs or cities or careers or partners.

I'm planning on giving a talk to stir up interest here at Boston University, but I'd be happy for anyone to look into this. If you're interested (I notice that you're a medical student in New Zealand), send me a PM.

- vital

Skeezyks · Nov 14, 2015 at 07:06 PM

RJ PCentral · Nov 25, 2015 at 08:31 PM

Thank you for this one. Simple and doable exercise

Red Nightmare · Dec 06, 2015 at 06:29 PM

vital, your approach intrigues me, and I want to try out your method.

Question - do you verbalize the actions in your head when you snap? For example, do you say to yourself "stand up", "raise toilet seat", etc.? Or you just snap and do it?

vital · Dec 07, 2015 at 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Nightmare

vital, your approach intrigues me, and I want to try out your method.

Question - do you verbalize the actions in your head when you snap? For example, do you say to yourself "stand up", "raise toilet seat", etc.? Or you just snap and do it?

Hi Red. I usually do verbalize silently, but sometimes it's just one word like "up" if I decide to stand up or "now" if I just decide to pay attention to what's happening at that moment. I try to really FEEL the moment when I make the decision and SNAP then. If you try this, I think you'll find that a little smile comes to you

. I think it's good to actively experiment yourself, and make it your own and to be active and creative about making up tiny silly things to decide. It sounds like a silly game, but it is v e r y powerful.

- vital

squiggler · Jan 15, 2016 at 04:09 AM

Hi Vital,

I found SNAP club and I am very excited to see where it takes me...The thing is, I have only recently acknowledged that I even AM depressed. What has been taking over my life for the past six years (more and more as time went on) is my issues with binge eating. I so badly want to stop, and I was wondering if you believe that SNAP club could help me stop. I understand that you have said it helps you recognize how many decisions we make, but can it help me stop this destructive habit? I'm really hoping so. I'll admit that it feels as if the depression is behind some of the eating, and then that the rest is just habit. But from what you have posted, it sounds as if you think that the habit part of it is also driven by the depression.

I am desperate and ready to try this, but I just can't take another heartbreak when it comes to trying to stop binging. I have put so much effort into changing for good, but it's just so hard to say no to urges when they come up. I have said, "This is really it--I'm done binging" so many times I have lost count. My weight gain, along with the fact that I feel like no matter what I do I will still binge, has me feeling so low all the time. I feel close to freedom, and yet so far away. I feel very trapped in this.

Do you think SNAP club can help, or do you have any advice?

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

vital · Jan 19, 2016 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiggler

Hi Vital,

I found SNAP club and I am very excited to see where it takes me...The thing is, I have only recently acknowledged that I even AM depressed. What has been taking over my life for the past six years (more and more as time went on) is my issues with binge eating. I so badly want to stop, and I was wondering if you believe that SNAP club could help me stop. I understand that you have said it helps you recognize how many decisions we make, but can it help me stop this destructive habit? I'm really hoping so. I'll admit that it feels as if the depression is behind some of the eating, and then that the rest is just habit. But from what you have posted, it sounds as if you think that the habit part of it is also driven by the depression.

I am desperate and ready to try this, but I just can't take another heartbreak when it comes to trying to stop binging. I have put so much effort into changing for good, but it's just so hard to say no to urges when they come up. I have said, "This is really it--I'm done binging" so many times I have lost count. My weight gain, along with the fact that I feel like no matter what I do I will still binge, has me feeling so low all the time. I feel close to freedom, and yet so far away. I feel very trapped in this.

Do you think SNAP club can help, or do you have any advice?

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Hi Squiggler,

I think it's a good idea. Feel free to PM me.

- vital

trapped77 · Jan 19, 2016 at 04:30 PM

Awesome Stuff !!

December2015 · Jan 23, 2016 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vital

Just to keep track of it, here is an update of what I personally think is the best plan if you are depressed. I'm not a medical professional, I'm only writing this up because this makes so much more sense to me than what usually happens.

1. Deal with any physical/nutritional issues first.

As pointed out by Mark Hyman, M.D., there are a large number of common medical or nutritional issues that can case mental problems including depression. These include Vitamin B or D deficiencies, hypothyroidism, heavy metal toxicity, pre-diabetes, infection, gluten allergy, omega 3 fat deficiency and others. If you have any of these common issues, the best thing to do is surely to address them first. For references, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOPRp_K6QQY

The UltraMind Solution: Fix Your Broken Brain by Healing Your Body First: M.D. Mark Hyman: 9780743570480: Amazon.com: Books

The latter book by Mark Hyman is a great resource for diet as well. I often also use Andrew Weil’s web pages as a source of information.

2. Try all the safe healthy ways to overcome depression next.

Very often if people see an M.D. and have the symptoms of depression, they are immediately put on an antidepressant. However, I think that this is a terrible idea. Antidepressant drugs have dangerous short and long term side-effects, can lead to dependence and often don’t work:

Why Antidepressants Don?t Work for Treating Depression - Dr. Mark Hyman

Negative Effects of Antidepressants | Mad in America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFbs8s3VI6M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R6MXO2j0V0

It is important to realize that because of oppositional tolerance, taking these drugs may cause negative changes in your brain, which may be irreversible. It’s also important to realize that the “chemical imbalance” theory of depression is wrong (see the references above). If you have depression, you are not fated by biology to take drugs in order to get better.

Because of all this, it seems so much better to first try all of the safe, easy and/or healthy ways to overcome depression first, before even considering a drug approach. Promising things to try include exercise (walking, running, swimming, yoga, weight training, for instance), improving your diet and taking supplements (see Mark Hyman’s books for great advice and for inspiration about what this can do), meditation, improving your sleep, talk therapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, light therapy and mind training. I especially recommend starting with SNAP CLUB as described at the top of this thread. It is easy and fun and usually works and sometimes works spectacularly well, and, when it works, it really helps you take further steps on your upward healthy path.

3. If 1. And 2. above fail and you are desperate, go to the next steps with a medical doctor.

I suspect that in almost all cases of depression, a serious attempt at some combination of 1 and 2 above will greatly help or completely solve the problem, but that’s really only a guess on my part. Meditation is a good example of the need to try seriously, I think. If you look in the depression success stories on this site, you’ll see that some people have completely resolved their depression, just with meditation. They also report, however, that it takes a solid couple of weeks of doing it before they get the big benefit. There are cases that I believe (on this forum and elsewhere) where people report that antidepressant drugs work dramatically well for them, even in the long term. This sometimes happens only after trying many different drug combinations. If nothing at all works in 1 or 2 above, you may have to try this, after, of course assessing the risks with a Medical Doctor. I have heard similar testimonials from people for whom only Electroconvulsive Therapy worked. See, for example,

Sherwin Nuland: How electroshock therapy changed me | Talk Video | TED.com

and people for whom nothing worked except for a cyngulotomy. See, for example,

Andrew Solomon: Depression, the secret we share | Talk Video | TED.com.

Now GO GET EM!!

As Stephen Colbert used to say: I’LL SEE YOU IN HEALTH!!!

- vital

Just finished watching Ted - again want to thank you for posting this link and wish you well . dave

mrnobody · 04:54 AM

Testimonials are the worst kind of evidence. Edit that, testimonials are NOT evidence.

We live in an age where terms such as information overload and decision fatigue are used. We make thousands of decisions each and every day.

I am interested to read from any long(er) term members with 100 plus posts. In fact, anyone that has more than a few posts and more than recent membership will do.

Is anyone like that doing snap club?
How long have you been snapping your fingers?
Do you feel foolish snapping your fingers as you make your way down the grocery aisle?

vital · Jan 27, 2016 at 11:45 AM

You can find experiences of some forum members earlier in the thread and I have personally met a few people who have been doing it and benefitting from it for a few months, but why not just give it a try? You've got nothing to lose.

- vital

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ajohnson45 Member Member Since Dec 2014 Location: Indiana Posts: 113 9	Oct 18, 2015 at 08:05 AM #162 now, I don't completely agree with the snapping but I do believe in how changing your mindset is the first step. for me it really helped. yesterday I had my first date with a girl and I thought I would never ever have any connections with girls last year.

Thisisme586 New Member Member Since Nov 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 6 8	Nov 03, 2015 at 06:48 PM #167 I'm curios if you are healed still holds true today? I don't buy into being able to be cured maybe mask it

Skeezyks Disreputable Old Troll Member Since Oct 2015 Location: The Star of the North Posts: 32,762 (SuperPoster!) 8 17.4k hugs given	Nov 14, 2015 at 07:06 PM #171 __________________ "I may be older but I am not wise / I'm still a child's grown-up disguise / and I never can tell you what you want to know / You will find out as you go." (from: "A Nightengale's Lullaby" - Julie Last)

RJ PCentral New Member Member Since Nov 2015 Location: Cebu Philippines Posts: 1 8	Nov 25, 2015 at 08:31 PM #172 Thank you for this one. Simple and doable exercise

Red Nightmare New Member Member Since Dec 2015 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 1 8	Dec 06, 2015 at 06:29 PM #173 vital, your approach intrigues me, and I want to try out your method. Question - do you verbalize the actions in your head when you snap? For example, do you say to yourself "stand up", "raise toilet seat", etc.? Or you just snap and do it?

trapped77 Junior Member Member Since Dec 2015 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 16 8	Jan 19, 2016 at 04:30 PM #177 Awesome Stuff !! __________________ Please Check My Profile !!!! F.E.A.R .. = False Evidence Appearing Real

vital Grand Poohbah Member Since Oct 2014 Location: Boston Posts: 1,589 9 1,785 hugs given	Jan 27, 2016 at 11:45 AM #180 You can find experiences of some forum members earlier in the thread and I have personally met a few people who have been doing it and benefitting from it for a few months, but why not just give it a try? You've got nothing to lose. - vital