Depression manifests in your life in so many ways. One of the worst, in my opinion, is the sleepless nights. I hadn't experienced them for some time, but they are back making another debut! The biggest delima is, as I am sure many of you know, it adds more fuel to the depression. To make matters worse I live in a state that has bone chilling winters. I haven't seen the sun for weeks. I do realized that some of these "feelings" may be seasonal - but unfortuantely, at the core they are not.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've been up this week through the night wondering the house aimless. Thinking of things, people and places gone by.

I cry a lot during those waking hours, thinking of the one person that I loved most in this world.

My grandma. I miss you Granny J! You were the rock in my life and my one true inspiration. I think maybe the only one human being that loved me the way I loved her.

I would be so open to suggestions from anyone who has found a solution to your sleeplessness other than that of taking a pill. It really takes its toll on me and my health ...

J

[Leed]

Hi Sweetie ~ Have you ever seen those CD's/tapes that are supposed to help one relax/sleep? They are of different sounds like the ocean/rainforest/birds/etc. Well, they WORK. You get a set of about 10-12 of them, and you turn them on when you go to bed. In NO time, I'm asleep! I am the world's hardest person to get to sleep -- I'm up all the time. I just plain cannot sleep, between pain and insomnia I sleep maybe 2-4 hours a night. But with these CD's, I'm OUT. I'm sure you could find them in any place that sells CD's. They aren't expensive either. It's worth a try. They are a God-send to me when I'm having a really rough night.

I particularly like the ocean sounds - you can hear the sea gulls too, along with the sound of the waves. It takes me back to my favorite place in the world.

I hope you can find these - you'll be asleep in no time. Hugs, Lee

[Rohag]

Originally Posted by VoidofCourse

Depression manifests in your life in so many ways. One of the worst, in my opinion, is the sleepless nights.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

No, I have not found a complete answer to my "primary insomnia." I'm on various meds, and they help a little along with the following:

Establishing and maintaining a bedtime ritual. After a while the details of the ritual begin to act as subconscious cues easing you into sleep mode.

Using a gently-intrusive background distraction to take my mind off the process of falling asleep. For this I do something definitely not recommended -- we put the TV on a sleep timer tuned into light programming (not too interesting, not too boring). Doctors usually tell you to only use your bed for sleeping, and that's great if it works for you. It didn't work for me; I would lie awake ruminating. Through trial-and-error I've found the light programming in the background is just enough to take my mind off of falling asleep (the more I think about sleeping, the less I sleep) and distract me from the kind of subjects that lead to unhelpful rumination.

I'm glad you had -- and have -- Granny J in your life. All the best, VoidofCourse!

Thanks guys! I have thought about those CDs Lee, I think maybe I will try that. I already sleep with the TV on Rohag - it just doesn't seem to matter. If I wake up that's it - I just lay there with all those burning "why mes" and I can't turn it off -but perhaps with some "nature sounds" it might help. My girlfriend has some sort of thing that sits on her nightstand that makes different noises like waterfalls and crickets etc...and she says it does help her. I thought maybe it might be too distracting to listen to crickets all night long - but maybe it's just what I need to ease my troubled mind!

I have to do something for sure I am tired of sitting on the kitchen floor at 3:00 a.m. eating corn flakes!

[nicoleb2]

I don't have any suggestions - I too deal with insomnia. Currently on 12.5 mg of Ambien CR every night, but per my psychiatrist, I am increasing it to 18.75 tonight... hope it works!

You know I was just thinking more about this very thing Nic. Rohag's suggestion sounds really logical. Establish a routine. Sometimes I dread going to bed so much because I know it's difficult so I avoid it. Lots of times I fall asleep on the couch. Not good. I need to get my butt up when I'm tired and go to bed. For some reason I just hate it. I know I'm going to be up and down all night.

Does the meds leave you feeling lethargic the next day? Thats the problem I have with most meds. I can't stand feeling "lost" all day the next day.

Off the record, NyQuil works pretty good for me tho. When I've lost sleep for long periods. One shot of that and its lights out!

My DR. started me on Buspar but I just can't bring myself to take it.

Good luck tonight peaches...

J

[lastyearisblank]

When I have insomnia I listen to a book on tape or This American Life on itunes... after about 20 minutes Im out...

Originally Posted by VoidofCourse

Depression manifests in your life in so many ways. One of the worst, in my opinion, is the sleepless nights.

I agree!

Originally Posted by VoidofCourse

I would be so open to suggestions from anyone who has found a solution to your sleeplessness other than that of taking a pill. It really takes its toll on me and my health ...

While Rohag's suggestions really are very good, I can't currently manage without my sleep med. I do practise good sleep hygiene too, but it's just not enough for me right now. I know that might not be what you want to hear though.

I currently take 10mg Amitriptyline at night which, if I take it 2hrs before bed, helps me drift off to sleep and stops me waking up at 4am every day. It's helped me so much cos insomnia sucks! Amitriptyline is not technically a sleep med; it's a tricyclic antidepressant, but at low dose can help you sleep. It's also used at low dose for chronic pain.

Originally Posted by VoidofCourse

Does the meds leave you feeling lethargic the next day? Thats the problem I have with most meds. I can't stand feeling "lost" all day the next day.

When I first started it, I was a bit groggy for a day or two, but now wouldn't know I was on it if it wasn't for the blissful night's sleep I get. Not that that helps my fatigue, but that's a whole other story!!

Originally Posted by VoidofCourse

My DR. started me on Buspar but I just can't bring myself to take it.

What are your worries about taking the buspar?

*Willow*

[whenwillitend]

I have the same problem, but I take meds for it, so I don't think I'm much help. I take 100mg of Seroquel and 30mg of Restoril for the nightmares. I sleep great and wake up refreshed. I also have a fan running in my bedroom at night, I need the "white noise". It's one of those regular stand up fans.
Good luck, I know not being able to sleep does not help with depression.

[Gently1]

At times sleep has eluded me and now I am into sleep 12 hours at night, and sometimes during the day- working with pdoc for the right AD

My rules for sleep: wake up and GET UP the same time every day of the week
it is the waking time that helps to set our internal clock- ( can not remember source)

Have morning routine: written out and posted on your mirror- promise yourself to do these before returning to bed (if needed)

Have an evening routine: TV/internet off at XX:XX time. Reading or quiet activity. Try to have a regular bed time.
Do not forget a protein or dairy snack- warm milk does help, and the body still needs fuel to sleep. I find one hour before I turn out the lights.

And if I am awake after more than 4 hours of sleep, I have cheese precut into 1oz pieces as sometimes what wakes us up is hunger that we do not register as hunger.

When I had insomnia I could fall asleep, but could wake up two hours later and not get back to sleep. I would also dread bedtime.

My self treatment cycle:
When I woke up, I would lie in bed no longer than 20 minutes, then get up and move to another part of the house and read or sit until I felt sleepy, the best is the lowest light activity, then back to bed, up again after 20 min and repeated until morning.

Now I hate being cold, so just getting out of bed and into my bathrobe was a deterrent for getting up, and soon I got to the point where all I had to do was take one arm out from under the covers and I would be sleepy again. It is cold here in Canada this time of the year, but we usually have sunny days.

This cycle was taught to me by a T, his favorite example was an elderly man whose wife had passed, and he hated housework. Within two nights his sleep was back to normal ( and his house was cleaner )

Depression insomnia is a complication and consult with your doctor as well, my family doctor said anytime over two weeks can affect brain chemistry and make it harder to get a regular sleep.

I use 75mg of seroquol at night to keep me sleeping through the night. I did not feel groggy the next day, until an AD change, that is being changed again so I can try to get back to 'normal' sleep.

I also use my optional ativan, as I am in Therapy and sometimes I am overwhelmed with the work, as I have a hard time pacing myself, so at this time I am chosing an Ativan at 1 or 2 am rather than have more than 2 days of poor sleep. I use no more than 1 or 2 a week, and only during the night if my mind is spinning and my get back to sleep cycle does not seem to work.

Sorry about writing so much, maybe my writing will put you to sleep

Good luck, and there are some other great sleep aids posted.

Gently1

I'm afraid to take my meds Weepingwillow. I took Paxil for many years until it no longer worked then Dr. switched me to Effexor - I was up to 375 mils a day!! It really began to intimidate me with regards to how much meds I was taking. I became numb emotionally. Sure I didn't feel sad anymore...but I didn't feel happy, or any other emotion - I was a flat line. I hated it. I just quit taking the Effexor and my Dr. flipped out because she was afraid of what it may have done by just stopping it so abruptly. It did help me sleep - but sleeping didn't feel "normal" either. It didn't feel natural, when I slept on the meds it was like I was in a coma.

The Buspar is something new she wanted to try me on becuase I was beginning to cycle the sleeplessness again and depression.

I have two full bottles of it and still can't seem to get myself to swallow one.

I've been trying to keep on a schedule this week...Turning off the T.V. Gently and going to bed at 10:00. Been waking up here and there, but able to go back to sleep relativley easily...

not sure tho if that's just because I have been so exhausted lately.

J

Have been feeling a bit better the last couple of days.

Everything will be okay in the end, if it's not okay - it's not the end.

I really like this quote WWE - Words to live by...

J

[nicoleb2]

I keep my days pretty routine, took the 18.75 mg of ambien cr and am still not sleeeping... my old psychiatrist wants me totalk to my new psychiatrist (who I don't even meet till the 28th) about it, so now i'm just screwed!

interesting point of view for "RIGHT SLEEP" written by my favorit "Zen Guru" Osho.

Meditation for Right Sleep
The thing which has been harmed the most in the development of human civilization is sleep. From the day man discovered artificial light, his sleep has become very troubled. And as more and more gadgets started falling into man’s hands, he started feeling that sleep is an unnecessary thing, too much time is wasted in it. The time when we are asleep is a complete waste. So the less sleep we can do with the better. It does not occur to people that sleep has any kind of contribution to the deeper processes of life. They think that the time spent sleeping is time gone to waste, so the less they sleep the better; the more quickly they reduce the amount of sleep, the better.

“We have not even noticed that the cause behind all the illnesses, all the disorders that have entered man’s life is lack of sleep. The person who cannot sleep rightly cannot live rightly. Sleep is not a waste of time. The eight hours of sleep are not being wasted; rather, because of those eight hours, you are able to stay awake for sixteen hours. Otherwise you would not be able to stay awake all that time.

During those eight hours life-energy is accumulated, your life gets revitalized, the centers of your brain and heart calm down and your life functions from your navel center. For those eight hours of sleep you have again become one with nature and with existence. That is why you become revitalized.

Sleep needs to come back into man’s life. Really, there is no alternative, no other step, for the psychological health of humanity than that sleep should be made compulsory by law for the next one or two hundred years.

It is very important for a meditator to see to it that he sleeps properly and enough. And one more thing needs to be understood — right sleep will be different for everybody. It will not be equal because the body has needs which are different for everyone...according to age and to many other elements.

Perhaps you may not be aware that the latest research says that there cannot be one fixed time for everyone to wake up. It is always said that to wake up at five o’clock in the morning is good for everyone. This is absolutely wrong and unscientific. It is not good for everyone; it may be good for some people but it may be harmful for other people. Within twenty-four hours, for about three hours, the body temperature of each person goes down. And those three hours are the hours of deepest sleep. If the person is woken up during those three hours, his whole day will be spoiled and his whole energy will be disturbed.

Generally these three hours are between two to five in the morning. For most people these three hours are between two to five in the morning, but it is not the case with everyone. For some people their body temperature is low until six o’clock, for some it is low until seven. For some their temperature starts becoming normal at four in the morning. So if someone wakes up within these hours of low temperature, all twenty-four hours of his day will be spoiled and there will be harmful effects. Only when a person’s temperature starts rising to a normal level is it time for him to wake up.

Normally it is alright for everybody to wake up with the rising sun, because as the sun rises everyone’s temperature starts rising. But this is not a rule, there are some exceptions. For some people it may be necessary to sleep a little later than sunrise, because each individual’s body temperature rises at a different time, at a different pace. So each person should find out how many hours of sleep he needs and what is a healthy time for him to get up, and that is the rule for him...whatever the scriptures may say, whatever the gurus may say. There is no need to listen to them at all.

For right sleep, the deeper and the longer you are able to sleep, the better. But I am telling you to sleep, not to keep on lying on the bed! Lying down on your bed is not sleep!

To wake up when you feel it is healthy for you to wake up should be the rule for you. Usually it happens along with the sunrise but it is possible that this does not happen to you. There is no need to be afraid or worried or to think that you are a sinner and to be afraid of going to hell. Many people who get up early in the morning go to hell and many people who get up late are living in heaven. None of this has any relation whatsoever to being spiritual or unspiritual. But right sleep certainly does have a relationship with it.

So each person should discover what is the best arrangement for him. For three months each person should experiment with his work, with his sleep and with his diet, and should find out what are the most healthy, most peaceful and most blissful rules for him.

And everyone should make his own rules. No two persons are alike, so no common rule is ever applicable to anybody. Whenever someone tries to apply a common rule, it has a bad effect. Each person is an individual. Each person is unique and incomparable. Only he is like himself, there is no other person like him anywhere on the earth. So no rule can be a rule for him until he finds out what the rules for his own life-processes are.
Osho, The Inner Journey, Talk #3

[capricorn1975]

Very, very wise information J...

Thanks so much for finding it for us.

http://www.osho.com/library/

Osho is awesome. I have some of his books/cds. I think it's time I give him a bit more of my attention. The thing about that info is it came to my in box in a newsletter. So since it has been a topic of concern for me lately as it is with so many of us - I couldn't help but feel it was very appropriate for me to post it. At this stage of my life, I feel as if I encompass a more "spiritual" point of view about life as opposed to a formal "denomination". To each his own - but I thoroughly enjoy his reading / teachings. I've posted a link to his website in case anyone may be curious about who and what he is and what he has to offer. Which, in my opinion, is a very unique perception about life and life's problems.

J

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by VoidofCourse

Depression manifests in your life in so many ways. One of the worst, in my opinion, is the sleepless nights. I hadn't experienced them for some time, but they are back making another debut! The biggest delima is, as I am sure many of you know, it adds more fuel to the depression. To make matters worse I live in a state that has bone chilling winters. I haven't seen the sun for weeks. I do realized that some of these "feelings" may be seasonal - but unfortuantely, at the core they are not.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've been up this week through the night wondering the house aimless. Thinking of things, people and places gone by.

I cry a lot during those waking hours, thinking of the one person that I loved most in this world.

My grandma. I miss you Granny J! You were the rock in my life and my one true inspiration. I think maybe the only one human being that loved me the way I loved her.

I would be so open to suggestions from anyone who has found a solution to your sleeplessness other than that of taking a pill. It really takes its toll on me and my health ...

J

J, i have the same prob. my pdoc said it was when i was hypomanic. can't shut down my brain. i either can't fall asleep or waken in the middle of the night and can't fall back to sleep. he suggested after 30 minutes of not falling asleep to get up and do an activity like reading-limited stimulation of the mind. then try to sleep again. i guess the worse dilemma is when i can't get back to sleep. it is so physically exhausting cause i can tell my body is tired.
hope this exercise may help you. i use it often when i get this way cause i get so anxious if i stay in bed and try to sleep.