[ElaineJ]

I signed up here a few months ago to learn about dealing with/helping my husb who's battled depression for ~15 yrs. Now I find myself in need of help. My mother died on Dec. 21st after a 6-yr illness - not unexpected but still very difficult. My dad is heartbroken. He's 'finding himself' again after being mom's 24/7 caregiver for so long. I knew mom was going to die; she's better off now; dad can finally get out & experience life again. I should be happy about that really ... & I guess I am ... but ... ? I dunno. Grief is complicated I suppose.
And then there's a longstanding problem at my house with my depressed husb not doing anything to help me. It's probably a familiar problem, I mean, he's depressed, he has no energy to do anything. But I can't help feeling angry, resentful, etc. (I think he's also a wee bit lazy & milks his status to get me & our dtr to wait on him. He's been the patient for so many years - dialysis since ~99, kidney transplant in 06, uncontrolled diabetes.) I work full-time & I come home to find husb on the couch in his underwear every day. We've 'talked' about this problem & I've given up thinking he will change. He can't change. His solution is to make our 17-yr-old dtr work more. I'm up against the proverbial brick wall.
Is this my life from now on? I don't necessarily want to divorce him - I love him & he, well, he needs me, but ... but ... but ...
I'm just so very tired of so many emotions. I'm on prozac & recently upped the dose to 40 mg but now I'm so tired all the time - not sure if its because of the prozac or if it's depression. I know something's wrong because this is not me. I'm usually very positive & active. Now I just want to sit around & play FB games. I have a great job but I've lost all interest in it. I do barely enough to get by. Just wanna sit & stare out the window & wish for a 'fast forward' button.
Anybody got a cure for me?

[Rohag]

Originally Posted by ElaineJ

I'm on prozac & recently upped the dose to 40 mg but now I'm so tired all the time - not sure if its because of the prozac or if it's depression.

Could be

• the Prozac
• the depression
• caretaker fatigue
• grief
• general burnout

or all or any combination of the above or even an undiagnosed issue.

Any chance you could get a break from being a caretaker for at least a short while?

[allimsaying]

Hi Elaine, I hope you're feeling a little better, but I totally understand if you're not. These feelings and thoughts we have are not easily whisked away once they've taken a grip on us. Its like we've opened Pandoras box and all the little goonies have come rushing out, flying in every direction, spinning in our heads, laughing at us, mocking us, paralysing us.

If you're like me, being unable to instantly process and resolve the millions of ideas, fears, possible solutions, repeating hypotheticals, we soon become overwhelmed, fatigued. Our minds are working double-time and we feel ourself sliding down the slope. None of our previous hand-holds seem able to stop the descent.

I answered you on the other thread you had replied on asking about treatment resistant depression. Its a short and simple answer because Im not trained in providing therapy and I know there are some on this website with better info. A search of google also turned up several links that I didnt read but they are available if you choose to.

I am struggling in a similar way in dealing with the treatment resistance. Partly in dealing with my own resistance, but also, in trying to understand the effects of treatment resistance within a particular support group I have an ongoing relationship with.

Please keep in mind that I am not a professional. Call it treatment resistance, malingering, learned helplessness, co-dependence, energy vampires, to me, it is all the same but probably with some distinct and subtle differences.

As you are processing your own situations and dilemmas, something many take time to do, are compelled to do (clearly some do not), you need to be able to rely on support from those people you spend significant time of your life with. Spouse, kids, family, friends, co-workers. Personal relationships sometimes require a contract of sorts. Many successful relationships are built on the premise "scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". Is that co-dependent? maybe. Maybe it is inter-dependent. Whatever, the measuring stick is in how these relationships make us feel. They should provide us with a feeling of hope that even tho things right now are not great, they can get better. Even the most successful people we know of are trying to do better or at least maintain their current level of success.

It is when we recognize that our relationship is no longer feeding us but is instead, feeding off of us, that we need to take a step back and evaluate for ourselves how healthy this relationship might actually be. Making changes in our lives is sometimes absolutely necessary so that we can continue to grow and become the best person we can become, not only to ourselves, but also to those others we are connected to.

Malingering, treatment resistance, denial, are tools others may use to keep us in our place of constantly being the source of filling the needs of someone when in fact those people should be filling those needs for themselves. They may or may not even be aware of what they are doing. In my support group it is difficult because the malingerers seem to lean on each other, supporting each others malingering with statements of there being no use, no hope, things will never get better. It is social support in reverse. In a professional group therapy setting individual members are chosen based upon what the member might be able to contribute and how the person affects the group overall, but in many online support groups, there is no selection process. Any and all are welcome. Seldom is there even one individual facilitating the groups direction, usually there are many, some more positive than others, some not so very much. In your family, there needs to be a strong, positive leadership to keep things moving towards the common goals of all family members. The group member selection process has already been made and there is no going back. Going forward is however possible. Being able to recognize what is going on with your husband and personal life somewhat imposes on you this leadership role, though you, like myself, might be disadvantaged in terms of training to deal. Sometimes supporters need support.

It is hard enough keeping up our own energy levels to work on the things we need to work on without others dragging us away and using whatever little energy we have left over for themselves and when we are depleted and in need of support in return, we see then turning away from us, seeming to say "those are your problems, Ive got my own, sorry I cant help." Or worse, attempting to make us feel as though the problems we are feeling are not real, are imagined, or in some other way are the result of our own mental deficiencies when in fact we know otherwise.

I seriously doubt that anyone enjoys the situation but sometimes I wonder if it's not just some game people play because they are seriously that bored and have nothing else to do with their lives than watch others fall and flounder about. Probably that is not your husbands situation.

Sorry this is long. Just some things I hope you find helpful to think about.

[ElaineJ]

Originally Posted by Rohag

Could be

• the Prozac
• the depression
• caretaker fatigue
• grief
• general burnout

or all or any combination of the above or even an undiagnosed issue.

Any chance you could get a break from being a caretaker for at least a short while?

I'm cutting back on my prozac - every other day - until this 40 mg script is gone, then I'll go back to the 20's I think & see what happens.
I don't really even feel like a caregiver to my husb anymore since I do very little for him. How horrible does that sound? I mean I refuse to do certain things because he's home all day & I'm not. I could literally wear myself out doing the regular 'housewife' things ... & he'd let me. So I don't cook; my dtr cleans the house pretty much. I do the laundry but that's not a big chore really. It feels like I wear myself out emotionally/mentally more than physically. My husb used to go to therapy & still sees a psychiatrist periodically (in order to get his effexor & abilify) but he's really just existing. He seems able to find the energy to go out with a couple old friends every few months but any other time he's pretty much sleeping. People think I'm exaggerating when I say he sleeps ~18 hours a day.
It feels selfish to say our life would be great if HE'd change ... but I don't think there's anything more I can do to fix this by myself. And it's so very frustrating.

[ElaineJ]

...

If you're like me, being unable to instantly process and resolve the millions of ideas, fears, possible solutions, repeating hypotheticals, we soon become overwhelmed, fatigued. Our minds are working double-time and we feel ourself sliding down the slope. None of our previous hand-holds seem able to stop the descent.

Honestly, I don’t know WHAT I’m feeling right now; no energy, no enthusiasm for things I used to love. I’m just ... dull ... dark ... squished against this brick wall with no escape in sight.

...
I am struggling in a similar way in dealing with the treatment resistance. Partly in dealing with my own resistance, but also, in trying to understand the effects of treatment resistance within a particular support group I have an ongoing relationship with.

Please keep in mind that I am not a professional. Call it treatment resistance, malingering, learned helplessness, co-dependence, energy vampires, to me, it is all the same but probably with some distinct and subtle differences.
Energy Vampires! That’s it!

... ...
Malingering, treatment resistance, denial, are tools others may use to keep us in our place of constantly being the source of filling the needs of someone when in fact those people should be filling those needs for themselves. They may or may not even be aware of what they are doing. ...
It is hard enough keeping up our own energy levels to work on the things we need to work on without others dragging us away and using whatever little energy we have left over for themselves and when we are depleted and in need of support in return, we see then turning away from us, seeming to say "those are your problems, Ive got my own, sorry I cant help." Or worse, attempting to make us feel as though the problems we are feeling are not real, are imagined, or in some other way are the result of our own mental deficiencies when in fact we know otherwise.

For everything I’ve been through in the last few weeks, my husb STILL asked me a week or so ago, “what are YOU depressed about?” Seriously?? My mother died, my dad’s barely hanging on to life emotionally, and my husb is a parasite (YIKES that’s cruel).

...I seriously doubt that anyone enjoys the situation ...

Honestly, I don’t think my husb is aware of HOW he acts or whether or not he’s being “normal”. Life has, for him, become so all about him that he seems blind to anything or anyone other than ... himself. He makes ‘rules’ around our house & then breaks them & then yells that we (my dtr & I) are always against him.
On top of all this, he came home from seeing his old friends & said they gave him a bottle of Jack Daniels & a bottle of Scotch. I’m a functioning alcoholic. I can’t just have a little sip & stop. I’ve TOLD him that. I’ve told him what a struggle it is for me. And here he is telling me there are two bottles somewhere in our house. He says he’ll hide them - hasn’t happened yet because I saw both in his office. I haven’t opened either of them yet but ... it WILL happen if he doesn’t find a really good hiding place for them. Why did he even have to tell me they existed? It’s like he enjoys taunting me with booze, knowing my weakness.

[allimsaying]

I hope you are able to avoid the alcohol Elaine

> Life has, for him, become so all about him that he seems blind to anything or anyone other than ... himself. He makes ‘rules’ around our house & then breaks them & then yells that we (my dtr & I) are always against him.

Sorry, I cant seem to turn off the bold now lol. Is family counseling an option? How is your daughter holding up? Sorry you're going thru all this.

[Momentofclarity]

Hi ElaineJ.
You seem to have run into a dead-end....except...it's neither an end or dead.

I'm not really sure how your husband actually is like but the picture I get from reading this thread is that he is a really cruel and evil man. Sry to tell you but if you read the thread once again for yourself you might understand.

However I DO NOT believe in parasites or "sometimes I wonder if it's not just some game people play because they are seriously that bored and have nothing else to do with their lives than watch others fall and flounder about."... How far fetched it may seem every human usually have a reason behind every single act whether they know it or not. Even the kindest (if it's not a word it is now) people to lose temper and do things that aren't typically them which might be considered stupid or mean..

In fact..don't you fall into that description? You really seem like a nice person who get along with a sick man and does your best to help him but now you are basiclly flaming him on the internet. I don't really wanna make you feel bad but seriously... you haven't said ONE good thing about him.

I think you should remind yourself of why you love or loved him and whats different now. What you seem to be doing right now is starting a blame-war and possibly a silent one. By that I mean you kinda walk around building up a hate for eachother but don't wanna appear as the bad one and your frustration and hate for eachother which will bubble up to the surface from time to time and increase the other ones hate and yeah.....it will can go on for all eternity from there.

What I would suggest is one of the hardest things in the world.. Don't give in to hate. Be honest and try to connect to the husband you love. To do that you MUST accept first your own imperfections that may or may not have caused HIS frustration for you right now.

there's a lot of thing I wanna add but currently I am feeling so bad that I took my medicinen even though I was to wait for friday and speak to my doctor. The medds are making me really tired and I migh crash on the keyboard sooon....I will get the whole messege out...tomorrow...hopefully. Just don't start a blame-war... I ....will..... help..........................................

......

[Momentofclarity]

oh .... I slept for 15 hours....

well...ermh... what I was going to say yesterday is that you have to admit your own misstakes. If you start with complaining on everything HE does wrong he's obviously going to put himself in a defence situation. Make sure you want both of you the best and that you in no way wanna leech happines from him nor are you against him. The ideal way you both should see it is you two against depression (or life or wahtever) trying to work together to survive it not you against him like it was a fighting game. I guess you can't relate much to games but I hope you get the point when I say you should think co-op against AI and not player versus player. And to achieve that you have to admit your own faults.

Back to the topic I was talking about earlier; A man doesn't just do something with a reason. Most people to have sympathy and empathy for other people and never wanna push someone out a cliff for sheer fun. However someone might wanna push someone else out a cliff to make their own situation better. Like if you are the next best suited person for becoming the new tribe leader then you can kill the best one and then suddenly you are the best. Take bullying for example. One might bully someone else to make themselves feel more superior or actually do increase their ranks in the class or in the school. This usually happens in the subconscious though and thats why it's so hard to work against both for the bullying guy and for those who have it as everyday work.

In fact, your own behavior against him has changed due to someone in your prences died right? Were you complaining about all these things before you went sad? He might projecting everything from himself on you, he might have been taken care of for so long that he has forgot that others can also be unhappy and be in need of some sympathy, he might feel helpless when he DOES see your sadness and to protect himself from that feeling he tries to "lie it away", his action could depend on ANYTHING. Something obvious that you've missed something he doesn't know about something he hasn't told you....and remember all this could happen in his subconscious. And thats why you really have to connect with him. If he can't let you in into his life I don't know how he could ever gain a new perspective...

Every person is an human....even the ss-soldiers during the holocaust were..

I hope everything will end well.. hugs

[Rose76]

Sorry, Elaine. You do sound depressed, and it's no wonder to me. I think depression can lead to dependency, as has happened with your husband.

It is not healthy for your daughter to be overly burdened with catering to her father, if his neediness is excessive, beyond what his physical problems dictate. Eventually, she will look back and probably resent it. I would point out another concern. Someday you will be older and have health problems and may need some help from your daughter. If her dad consumes too much of your daughters energy, she may burn out and have nothing left for you. You are probably too giving to even think of that, but you have a right to. It would not be wrong to bring this up to him, either.

A few years from now, your daughter may be out of your house and on her own. It would be nice if she leaves wanting to maintain closeness with both of you. He could ruin that - for himself, as well as you. Depressed people tend to not think in the long term. (Believe me - I know. I suffer from recurrent depression.)

I know that I can become very lazy, myself. If someone enabled me, I would probably do less than I do. Love and warmth do a depressed person a world of good. I would advise you to level with your daughter about what you think her dad is doing to her. She will respect you for that. The two of you can then make a little plan to gradually do less unnecessary catering to dad, while continueing to show affection. Think of it as a way of being therapeutic towards him. He's probably not all that happy on the couch.

I'm sorry you've lost your mom, though I understand that you feel it was best for her. When my mom passed away, the hardest thing for me was watching my father's grief. So I understand that too. Your dad may surprise you, though. Mine did. Sounds like he is pretty strong to have coped with caretaking for a long while.

Try making yourself less available to your husband, and coach your daughter to do that too. It may take some real strategy. Talk to your doctor about you. Then you can tell husband that you are under doctor's orders to have time to just take care of you. I think you're right in believing that he won't volunteer to change, but he might do more, if you do less. Maybe stop doing his laundry and tell him that you are giving this to him as his therapy task.

I hope you feel better. You've been through quite a lot, and I'll bet you have short-changed yourself along the way.

[ElaineJ]

Momentofclarity, Thanks for your comments. I reread my post though & I don't see where I've implied my husb is really cruel or evil ... but I respect your opinion. It's not been my intent to paint him as everything wrong & myself as all that's good & abused. In trying to explain my feelings & how I have been feeling I guess I've used the wrong words in some areas. Just for the record, I do not believe my husb is evil - he is ill. He & I have had the 'I need you to help me more' discussion many times in the past. His idea of helping more around the house is to have our dtr do more. He sees no harm in that as long as 'the task' (whatever it is at the time) is completed. The biggest complaint he has against me is that he feels I & our dtr 'gang up' on him & blame him for everything bad in our world. Maybe it seems that way to him & I know that attitude isn't going to get anything accomplished for anyone. Not sure how to change how to express my feelings with him. I've just been trying to convince myself that this isn't ALL me ... or ALL him. But I wish he'd take at least some responsibility for fixing our situation instead of claiming that he's the normal one & everyone else is wrong.

Hello Rose76 & thanks for your input. My dtr & I have actually started doing less for husb. He does occasionally do his own laundry - I guess that's something! (I think HE thinks it's a big deal, so that's progress, right?) Unless/until he wants to go to counseling or therapy WITH me, our situation won't drastically change. My attitude is all I can control, so that's what I'm trying to concentrate on. I've cut back the 40 mg prozac to every other day & will eventually go back to 20 mg daily ... maybe cut that back & see what happens. I am feeling a bit better, perhaps on my way out of the dark for a while (hopefully a very long time).

[Momentofclarity]

Maybe I'm overreacting but this...

Originally Posted by ElaineJ

...

Honestly, I don’t think my husb is aware of HOW he acts or whether or not he’s being “normal”. Life has, for him, become so all about him that he seems blind to anything or anyone other than ... himself. He makes ‘rules’ around our house & then breaks them & then yells that we (my dtr & I) are always against him.
On top of all this, he came home from seeing his old friends & said they gave him a bottle of Jack Daniels & a bottle of Scotch. I’m a functioning alcoholic. I can’t just have a little sip & stop. I’ve TOLD him that. I’ve told him what a struggle it is for me. And here he is telling me there are two bottles somewhere in our house. He says he’ll hide them - hasn’t happened yet because I saw both in his office. I haven’t opened either of them yet but ... it WILL happen if he doesn’t find a really good hiding place for them. Why did he even have to tell me they existed? It’s like he enjoys taunting me with booze, knowing my weakness.

*

..to me sounds like a pure evil act.

But if you don't think bad of him in anyway... I guess it would be even easier to get to him. To get to the point where he realizes that you aren't against him in anyway and just want all three of you the best.

[Rose76]

Hi Elaine. That's great that you've got him doing some laundry. I'll bet he feels kind of good after he's accomplished that. I would disagree with the idea that whether he changes very much depends on going, or not going, to counseling or therapy. I would suggest that you, actually, have far more power to promote change than any therapist ever will.

Therapy/counseling for yourself might be appropriate, if you think you could use some support in fashioning a game plan to be less available to his excess dependency. But, actually, I think you have found a sensible path and that you and your daughter can be mutually supportive . . . as it sounds like you've been.

I'm glad you're feeling better. Every bit better counts. (((Hugs)))