[fonglai]

My therapist suggested I check out this place that offered evening group and individual therapy sessions with licensed therapists. I work full time so that sounded like a possibility. The assessment was free so I went in.

After some paperwork and talking to the lady, she said legally she couldn't let me leave because I was at risk to harming myself. She wants me to come in every day for the next 3 weeks. She didn't have me sent to the inpatient facility and let me come home because I have a family. Here's the thing....I don't have short term disability. I don't have paid time off work right now. I cannot afford to not work for three weeks. I have $750 of my deductible to meet before my insurance starts paying anything and they want that up front. I felt like I was talking to a creditor. I don't have the money. She asks if I can ask someone for it or if I can put it on my credit card. I kept telling her I simply don't have it and don't have resources to get it. She finally said I could pay it out even though they aren't supposed to let people do that. WTF?? I don't want their services anyway. They are making me attend. They said if I don't show up tomorrow, they will call the police and I'll get put into the inpatient facility. The money part is stressing me out more than anything. I know I need help and I'm willing to get it, but I wanted to do it on my terms. Doesn't me going in for the assessment show that I'm looking for help. I don't feel like I'm in any immediate danger of killing myself. Yes, I drank last night. Yes, I cut myself last night. BUT I showed up for the stupid assessment. I feel like it's the dumbest thing I've done and I'm so angry and upset about it all. I'm tempted to not show up and just let them lock me away a few days. I'd miss maybe a week of work, but that's better than three.

[ToeJam]

Have you spoken to your own therapist and or dr? They may be able to intervene since they have case history with you and can also advise regarding the legitimacy of what I see as a threat.

[ThisWayOut]

I would definitely call my own therapist at this point. That's a really uncomfortable position to be put in.
If she was that worried about your safety, she should have hospitalized you, not threaten you into using their services. Maybe asking you to come back for the week and see how things go, but not mandating you to go to 3 weeks of services you cannot afford. That sounds a bit ethically shady to me. If she believes you are that much of a risk, she should have hospitalized you.
When I went to an intake and the psychiatrist thought I was a genuine risk to myself (I was not, but she heard what she wanted to hear), I was hospitalized. There was no discussion and no offer to come back daily for X number of days/weeks.
Good luck. Sorry it was such a horrible experience!

[fonglai]

I haven't called my therapist. I'll see if I can get in touch with her in the morning before I have to check in. Thanks. Everyone I've talked to just said I needed it and hasn't questioned the method. I know it's because they want to help me. I'm glad to have a couple people agree that this isn't quite right.

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[jesusplay]

"legally" ? What law is that?

[fonglai]

It's a state law I suppose. I looked it up and was too upset to get past all the legal jargon, but if a person is at risk of harming themselves or others, they have a responsibility to protect you for a certain amount of time. I did see there was a max amount of time too. I think it was 12 hours after they deem you not a threat.

I told my husband that I wanted to call my therapist to intervene, but he wants me to go. I feel betrayed and pissed, but I guess I'm going since no one will take my side.

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[Vossie42]

Was this lady a licensed therapist who was legally capable of determining whether you posed a harm to yourself or others? Did you say that you had a plan to kill yourself? Drinking and cutting doesn't qualify. As a licensed and trained therapist, she should have known that. This doesn't sound right to me.

[Vossie42]

I found this website about involuntary commitments in Oklahoma: Oklahoma - Treatment Advocacy Center If I'm reading it correctly, you can be involuntarily committed to outpatient treatment. So, the laws in one state may not be the same as in another state. Such is true across the country. However you have to meet certain criteria, which are listed on the website. Also, the laws are for people who are too ill to seek care voluntarily. You sought care voluntarily. I'm confused there.

I urge you to still call your therapist. Give him/her a chance to evaluate you and to intervene if necessary.

[fonglai]

Thanks a bunch! That's super helpful.

I told her that I would have already killed myself if I had a plan for the kids. I don't want them going to their father. I also have a good life insurance policy and want them to get the money. Also, I don't want to screw it up and end up an invalid and burden my family. So yeah, I feel hopeless and wish something would kill me and self harm, but I don't think I'm an immediate threat to myself.

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[fonglai]

Oh and I don't know if she is a licensed therapist. The initials at the end of her name were M. ED. What's that mean'

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[Yoda]

That means masters degree in education.

[fonglai]

Well hell.

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[TheNextOne]

A Masters Degree doesn't really mean much. Usually when people list them after their name it just means they have nothing better to put there. It's like when people put B.Sc after their name, which is worth about as much weight as the paper it's printed on.

Psychiatrists require an MD and many have a PhD as well. Most highly respected psychologists will also have a PhD. That being said, you don't require a PhD to be a practising therapist, I think a Masters (or even a Bachelors) is technically sufficient.

[Vossie42]

According to this part of the website, Initiating Court-Ordered Assisted Treatment - Treatment Advocacy Center, a treatment advocate can initiate the process of involuntary outpatient treatment. I guess that the M.Ed. you spoke with was one of the treatment advocates at the center. So, yes, it seems that she was acting properly.

[fonglai]

Thanks for your help.

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[ThisWayOut]

It depends on your state regarding licensing and the weight their assessments hold. In CT, even a licensed therapist cannot involuntarily commit someone, a PhD or MD must do that. They can request that the police check on you and the police can transport you to a hospital, but an MD or PhD are the only ones that can actually commit you (and generally they have to believe you are an immediate threat to yourself or another). I know in FL the law is much broader. Anyone in a trained capacity can call for a person to be evaluated by a psychiatrist for involuntary commitment, however only the police can transport involuntarily to a hospital for said evaluation. In both FL and CT, the holds are "up to 72 hours" but that just means they will hold you for 72 hours while they assess whether or not you should be committed...
I did not read the link about the OK law, but the title reminds me of similar laws both in FL and CT where a person can be court-ordered (or as part of a hospital-alternative program) to seek out-patient treatment either as part of a court proceeding, or because they are deemed incapable of making such decisions for themselves... <--nm. Vossie42 clarified that...
Also, you can be granted an Masters in Education for a counseling track of study, which would cover things like substance abuse counseling, school counseling, etc. It's less clinical in nature, but you are trained in therapeutic practices. I have worked with Counselors who were amazing, and some who I wonder how they passed their licensing exams... of course I can say that for Social Workers and Psychologists too.
Requirements for seeing clients one-on-one are different for each state as well as each discipline. In many states, a BA in Social Work is sufficient to be called a Social Worker and carry your own individual case-load, but you must have a PhD in Psychology to do the same... Similarly, a counselor at a crisis center may only have a certificate under their belt but be supervised by a master's or doctorate level director. Or, you could find a PhD-level clinician who is switching concentrations, being supervised by a BA or MA level director... it's all dependent on the agencies funding the organization, the state, and sometimes the county (also seniority at the organization and whether or not the director was "grandfathered in" to being allowed to be director)...
Ok, I'm sure that was more info than you were looking for. Sorry if it ended up confusing anyone.

[fonglai]

Well, I started today. Started with muscle relaxation and meditation and then group therapy. I figure I'll make the most of it while I'm here.

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[fonglai]

I got released earlier this week because I was doing well. I feel like I'm on the verge of a breakdown. I don't want to go back....

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