What's the point?

I'm really stuck on the idea that there's no point in keeping myself alive. It feels like there's nothing but more and more pain, so what's the point of staying alive?

Every day is exactly the same. I sleep. I have bad dreams. I get up. I sit in bed all day, wasting time until I go to sleep again. The only variations are when I have doctors' appointments or when my chronic illness flares up and I end up in the ER. Not exactly positive variations in the routine.

I used to do volunteer work, but it seems like the people I was working with have decided it's too much of a hassle to accommodate my disability. I'm not worth it, not important enough.

I live in deep poverty with no hope of getting out. Every month, I sink deeper and deeper underwater. Eventually it's all going to fall apart. I won't be able to pay rent or bills within the next couple months. There's no one to ask for help.

I'm sick all the time. I get treatment for some of it, but for a lot of it, my doctors just shrug, tell me the labs look okay, and say they'll see me again in six weeks. Meanwhile I get sicker and sicker, more and more disabled. I can barely take care of my physical needs anymore. There's no help.

My depression is unremitting. I've tried everything available--meds, ECT, you name it. The only thing that's ever helped was therapy, but apparently I don't matter enough to get therapy, since I can't afford to pay out of pocket. All I get is a case manager. She's supposed to see me once a week, but about half the time she doesn't bother to show up or call. When I've tried to leave voicemails for her, she hasn't responded to them. There's no help, no support.

Every day, I sink a little further underwater. I'm too tired to keep my head above water much longer, and no one who could pull me out cares enough to bother. Right now I'm finding it nearly impossible to convince myself to keep trying. I don't want to die; there's so much more I want to do with my life. But it's all so far out of reach that it seems ridiculous to believe I could ever reach that shore. So then it becomes a question of why I should keep myself alive. I really don't know anymore. I'm so tired, and I don't want to fight this anymore. Not all alone.

Hello geis: I'm sorry life has become such a struggle for you. It must be so difficult to keep going when you're struggling with mental health problems, physical health problems, economic problems, & you're alone. I noted that you wrote you have chronic illness. Chronic illness can certainly cause depression to set in & also keep it going & deepening once you're into it.

I would guess, again from what you wrote, you also have quite a bit of anxiety, if for no other reason, then simply due to your current living situation & the possibility you may soon no longer be able to pay your rent. That must feel awful.

I was glad to read that you don't want to die & that you have things you want to do in your life. Many people in your situation would probably want to do just that. Having goals, even if they feel so far away, is really important.

You mentioned having done some volunteer work. That is certainly wonderful. May I ask what it was you did? Also do you have any source of income at all? Have you ever been able to hold a job? You mentioned that those who could buoy you don't care enough to bother. Do you have family who are not helping?

I don't mean to pry. But I'm trying to better understand your situation. You sound as though you are just about at the very end of your rope with no safety net to catch you when you fall. That must be a terrible feeling.

Do I recall correctly that you live in Massachusetts? I've never been there. But it seems as though Massachusetts is a state that would have quite a few resources available for people with mental & / or physical health conditions. But I take it from what you've written, nothing is available for you?

Anyway, please excuse me if I ask too many questions. Of course you don't need to reply if you prefer not to. I do hope you can find some way to keep going. I would like to come onto PC at some point in the future & read about how you persevered & triumphed after all! My very best wishes to you...

I have some anxiety, but mostly just depression. I think I'm too physically and emotionally exhausted to sustain anxiety. It requires more energy than I'm capable of producing. I also just fixate on suicide, which alleviates the anxiety because I know I can end all this when it blows up in my face.

The volunteer work I've done most recently (for the last three years) has been on political campaigns and issues organizing. In the past, I've also volunteered at a hands-on science center, an alternative juvenile justice program, a school for special-needs kids, and a program that did home repairs for low-income families.

I have never been able to hold a paid job as an adult, primarily because of my psychological symptoms. Now it would be even harder because my physical illness makes it impossible for me to stand for more than a few minutes, and there are very few jobs available to people without college degrees that don't involve a need to stand, walk, lift, etc. I also end up in the ER at least once every 8 weeks, and even when I'm not as acutely sick, I'm still often too sick to work. I'm on disability, but that doesn't provide enough money to meet even my most bare-bones needs.

My family is not supportive, emotionally or financially. They have the financial means to support me, but they refuse to because they decided I'm creating my mental illness so I don't have to get a job and support myself. They think that by refusing to support me financially, they'll force me to just get over my mental illness. Meanwhile, I'm my mother's primary source of emotional support. She has a husband, but she calls me multiple times a week, often crying. But she does not reliably provide me with emotional support.

Massachusetts does have a lot of resources, but only if you live in the metro Boston area. I'm in western Mass, and the resources are far scarcer here, particularly for mental health. If you have the money to pay out of pocket for treatment, you can find good help, but I'm stuck with the Department of Mental Health and the incredibly substandard agency they contract out to in my catchment area. I have zero choice. I'm also severely limited by substandard public transit that's not truly accessible for PWDs, so I can't even get to things like free support groups.

I just feel like I've tried and tried and tried, but nobody in a position to help me seems to want to even try to help. If they don't think I'm worth saving, how am I supposed to convince myself that I am?

OMG geis... just look at the list of volunteer work you've done! It saddens me to think that the people who could help you don't think you're worth saving... I'm not a religious person. But the phrase: "pearls before swine" comes to mind.

You have to excuse me. Back when I was a bit younger (& still a real person) I was a vocational rehabilitation counselor. So over the years I've seen the service system from both sides, both as a professional &, more recently, as a consumer. And I'd have to say... it stinks for the most part. So your predicament is not unfamiliar to me.

You ask, if the people around you don't think you're worth saving, how can you convince yourself you are? Well... that is a tough question. And there's no really good answer to it. I know. I struggle with similar feelings (for different reasons.) All I can say is, you just have to believe it. You don't have to DO anything, or BE anything to have value. You have value just as you are. And if you simply can't accept that, yourself, then perhaps there are people here on PC you can lean on until you get to the point where you are ready to accept it yourself.

I want to believe there is something out there for you & it's just a matter of finding it. It may be really, really difficult. But it's there. And the fact that you want to live & you have things you want to accomplish in your life, means you have inner strength to draw on to fight through your present circumstances.

The big problem right now, I would imagine is that the person who could potentially be the most helpful to you is your case manager & that person is not helpful at all. Somehow this does not surprise me... But perhaps there are other organizations out there that could & would help, if you could just get connected up with them. Do you think this might be possible?

I don't know how to believe something when all the evidence points to the contrary. This isn't just an issue of my having distorted perceptions of reality or whatever--our culture hates poor and disabled people. The lack of adequate anti-poverty programs is basically just a way of saying, "You don't matter enough for your most basic needs to be met."

I really feel like the most honest thing--and probably the most compassionate thing--that the government could do is just take me out and shoot me. I mean, the effect of the way they treat me, as a disabled, mentally ill person, is going to result in my death, so why not just be honest and merciful? Trying to live like this kills off so many little pieces of me every day that there's going to be nothing left of me anyway. At least if they just killed me now, I could die with a little bit of dignity. I'm losing what little I had to begin with.

As far as I know, there are no other options for me. Unless I suddenly get rich, I'm stuck with DMH and the agency they contract with for services in western Mass. I have no choice in that. Believe me, I've searched and searched. I just don't matter enough for there to be any organization to help me. There's nothing left for me to hold onto.

I'm the same, i don't feel like keeping on living while things are unbearable for me and this demonic illness is really challenging to keep battling with..its strong. I am strong but its not enough. My life is greatly affected by it. I feel lacking so much and hard doing things i want and need. I have no prof help or support in managing illness. I dont want to keep struggling and suffering.

Hi,
I am disabled and under depression, like you. I think I understand what you mean. I live in a country of what is called "the global south". Some things are worse than in the US, some things are better. I have lived in the US for 10 years. Then I came back to my country more than a year ago. I have some serious family problems here and currently I am hospitalized with a serious infection ( this is my third week at the hospital).
To me, our depression has strong ties to our condition or disability. Life is hard living with a disability. There are multiple daily challenges we need to face. I do not know about you, but I am really tired of fighting all the time. And I think I have the right to feel that way. You are right: there is no point, as there is no justice or a balanced system in life where everybody gets the same opportunities.
But I think life in us wants to live.
Again, I think we need help to be able to continue our struggle. One thing you and I can do is to give a second thought to things in our life to change stuff so our life is a bit easier. I do not know about you but I recognize that sometimes I am scared of change and that holds me back, then I think there is no solution for me and my depression worsens.
Ok, this is all for now. I am sending you a big hug

((((geis))))

Don't really have much to add, everyone else was eloquently put.

And, I get how much MA stinks on numerous levels. Western MA means geographically more isolated. Public transportation nilch, etc.

Is there anyway to ask your mom to slow down on her emotional drama?

Having an illness can contribute to depression, actually well noted. Did your doctors prescribe any mobility assistive devices, to help you with your legs?

I have severe illness which affects me both mentally and physically..its called depression which is part of even more challenging illness Bipolar Disorder and i am not coping well with things as they are in my life. . Its exhausting to keep battling. You def arent alone to not have help with your circs.

Yes, it is wrong and unfair that some people suffer in silence with severe illness, don't feel able to or don't manage to get positive effective help and support while others do. Untreated depression is leading cause of suicide. My illness has been affecting me greatly for years. Its a very difficult place i'm in.

Okay... well... this Thread is sounding pretty dismal! I guess I shouldn't respond again because I don't have the economic problems it sounds as though some who have commented here have. But, then, I'm in my 60's. So I have allot less time left.

But, beyond that, I have my share of both mental & physical problems. I've been involuntarily committed to 2 different psych wards following unsuccessful suicide attempts... the most recent just a couple of years or ago.

Granted this world, in general, sucks! And I'm not a religious person. As far as I'm concerned, this life is it. Once we're dead... we're just dead. We no longer exist in any way, shape or form. So what difference does anything make? It doesn't. Once we're dead, we won't know the difference.

That said, as luck (or lack thereof) would have it, we're here now. That's a fact. And fortunately we don't really have to concern ourselves with the rest of the world at this point. We can just concern ourselves with ourselves for the time being. And we have a choice. We can either curl up in a ball & wait for death to arrive, or we can fight.

Does it really make any difference? No, not as far as I can tell. There are currently, what, about seven & a half billion human beings on this planet... it's not like we don't have a few humans to spare! And, from my perspective, the reality is that the earth & almost every other species on it would be better off if the human species died out entirely. (I've read where some evolutionary scientists have observed that Homo sapiens has been nature's biggest mistake.)

So again, from my perspective, ultimately none of it makes much difference one way or the other. It's just up to each person to decide whether they want to curl up or fight. I personally am fighting (sort-of)... not because I have any great interest in doing so... I don't. But, in my case, I have a wife who needs me & so I'm making the effort to persevere.

Each person who decides to fight has to find her or his own reason to do so, whatever that reason may be. And, as you fight, you'll come upon those who for whatever reason will want to align themselves with you & help you succeed. On the other hand, if you choose to curl up & die, more than likely, you'll do it alone. I hope each of you chooses to fight...

I have fought as much as i can without help and support but fact is my illness is really challenging for me to live with, its controlling my way of being and living.. I feel rly trapped in the place im in and i no longer want to go through more stress and suffering. I want things to improve/change for the better but i dont feel able to do that. I have tried different ways to help self and ive had courage to seek professional help but i have had negative experiences with others.

Support is key for our recovery, particularly if we live in poverty or have some financial problems. Indeed, sometimes, small changes could make a great difference. To me, sometimes, this is not easy to acknowledge and I keep doing stuff that is not helpful. I think it happens because depression clouds our intelligence and impairs our decision making skills. Moreover, when we have financial constraints, naturally we become more conservative, we fear risking and changes, and this is not always good. Beyond philosophical reflections, I think we need to be more practical and look at the details of our life, to see what can be improved so we don't suffer much. Depression is a tricky monster that whispers and whispers that nothing is possible and that we are lost but we do not have to listen to it. But, it is important to get appropriate help as our life is extremely complicated and we are exhausted.

healingme4me, I use a cane, but sometimes even that isn't enough. A couple weeks ago, even with my cane, I collapsed in Walmart. My muscles decided they just weren't going to work anymore, and suddenly I was on the ground. I've collapsed in the shower a number of times.

Skeezyks, I wish it were as simple as just choosing to fight, but it isn't. People can only take so much. I've been severely depressed since I was a very young child--my first suicide attempt was at age 10. I've fought and fought and fought. For a while, when I had access to good help, things got somewhat better, enough that I could manage my day-to-day life. But over the last few years, things have gotten progressively worse and worse. No one can fight forever. Read Chief Joseph's speech "I Will Fight No More Forever." Pretty much embodies it.

The rhetoric in the mental health world that tells people we just have to keep fighting is really invalidating because it ignores very real circumstances that make fighting impossible or pointless. When there are no resources, you can't force water from stones. Asking me to keep fighting ignores the fact that I barely have the strength to stand anymore, literally or figuratively. It ignores the fact that there's no one in my life to hold me up when I fall down. It ignores the fact that there are no other troops to relieve me, there are no supplies getting through the enemy lines, and no one can hold out forever.

It's like Boudicca and the Britons v. the Roman army. Guerrilla tactics work for a while, but they're a well-organized bureaucracy, extremely accomplished at conquering more helpless people. When things get really desperate, I suppose I can strip naked, paint myself blue, and run screaming at them. That'll confuse them for a minute, but eventually they'll win. Superior forces. So what's the point of fighting? It only causes more pain.

Clara, there isn't always appropriate help available. It's not a pretty truth, but it is, ultimately, the truth. Help is not available to everyone, even though it should be.

I bow to you...

That is right, help is not always available. In my experience, depression made me think there was not a solution, but it was not totally true. But I hear you and believe that you are right: in this individualistic society help is scarce.

Well, with your political organizing background and experience, and your eloquence, I think you could help make a difference.

Are there senators that could be lobbied? Other influential people?
Is there anyone who could convince your mum to stop crying to you and behave like a mum?? A Grandma? Old aunt of sorts? Social services? Doctor/s?
Sorry but I think her calls have been only making you more upset, when you've already been upset, it seems? Does she know about your collapsing etc?

I wonder what would happen if you'd just tell her you feel poorly and you're so worried about your rent, and tell her you can't listen to her (if she'd start crying)? (and hang up? And unplug/turn off the phone if needed?)

If she hasn't been there for you, why should you be there for her, like her therapist?? My mum (who I otherwise now have a pretty good relationship with) was trying to unload on me today, and I just said, 'Mum I can't be your therapist right now' (we were walking uphill and I told her I can't talk then before, but she kept on going on about something), she just laughed and let it go.

So I wonder if you could somehow improve this relationship with your mum, or if necessary, cut her out of your life completely, if she hasn't been anything but added stress? (Though that is probably easier said than done, there's probably still some small hope of them helping you on your side? So I wouldn't burn any bridges, just try to do some assertiveness and try to make her see the seriousness of your situation? You could talk and possibly eg agree to maybe talk 1x a week if she won't be crying/overemotional?)
Not sure what are other people's thoughts on this?

You could look at this site as a 'support group' of sorts, one that you haven't been able to go to in RL. People here have been very helpful to me in some regards.

What was helpful about therapy? Just having someone to listen? We're here... Was there any 'homework' or approaches that were particularly helpful?

Also, you could go into disease inactivity phase or remission - has it happened before? It's possible...((hugz))

Actually, the gubernatorial candidate I'm working for now has made improving mental health care a major part of her platform, which is part of why I chose to work for her campaign. But it's one of those uncertain things--there are no guarantees that she'll win, and if she does, it could still be months or years before she can enact meaningful reform. One of the things I've learned from working in politics is that nothing happens fast. (Well, except our state legislature banning up-skirt photos a week after the Supreme Judicial Court said it was okay. That was some pretty great hustle.)

My mother is one of the more minor stressors in my life. I can hang up the phone and not think about it afterward--I don't get caught up in the drama anymore. And when I don't pick up, my mother no longer keeps calling obsessively until I do. (She used to do that.) I think the situation is painful not so much because of her drama but because it hurts not to have a supportive mother. She just isn't capable of looking very far past her own stuff. But that's just kind of the way it is with her, and I've accepted that, as much as I think I can.

I don't know if I can put into words what was helpful about therapy. Some of it was just having someone to listen to me, but it's more than just that. I can't really put my finger on it or articulate it. (Really not a helpful answer at all; sorry.)

It's theoretically possible that my illness could go into remission, but it's not likely, given a number of statistical models of the disease and particular factors of my particular disease. There are very few treatment options, so what's most likely is that I will end up having to have major, life-altering surgery in the next few years. It's 50-50 whether it would improve my quality of life or not. But since I've never been able to get into remission, even with multiple toxic medications and major dietary changes, it's statistically unlikely that I will go into spontaneous remission. That's just the reality of the situation.

Thats true not everyone gets required help and support even if they try to seek it. What is appropriate help? It isnt the individuals fault if things are really challenging for them to cope with on own if they've exhausted their efforts to help themselves. People can fight as hard and long as possible but doesnt guarantee they'll win.

Geis, that's great that you've been working for someone who wishes to make mental health good reforms! When are the elections? (I don't know politics of USA so well...)
Maybe something could be done in addition to help her - like PR campaigns, Icarus and MindFreedom and/or other groups could help?

Good to hear you've sort of accepted the situation with your mother, though it can't be easy. I wish you could have a more supportive mother too! Any good-hearted older women/mentors or friends that could 'fill the role' somehow in your life?

That's too bad about statistics... Well, I do believe miracles can happen, sometimes...
Were the 'multiple toxic medications' actually helpful any? Would it be worse without them?
Have you tried eating some small amount of meat yet - you wrote about it on the blog? I was a vegetarian too, and it wasn't easy to go back to meat, but I did. (Bad side-effects from supplements too.)

Just curious, what was happening around/before the time when you got physically ill - were there any additional stressors or such, or was it just 'accumulated' trauma from the years? Poverty seems to be the biggest stressor now...

As for the other stuff, emotions and maybe dealing with the past... Have you tried doing EFT (emofree.com)or TAT (tatlife.com) yet - for some people they can be helpful. I've found them sometimes helpful too, TAT for past things especially... (But EFT won't work if you're hungry, at least that was my experience)

PS Have you written and sent that CV? (From your other thread)

The elections are in two weeks--November 4. We're down to crazy crunch time now, and I don't expect to be sleeping much the week before the election. We all drink way too much caffeine during that week.

The meds I'm on control my symptoms enough that my illness isn't life-threatening--when I first got sick, my blood pressure had dropped so low from dehydration and blood loss that they had a crash cart next to my bed--and makes my pain more or less manageable. But they come with side effects like severe nausea and vomiting (for which I have to take another medication), losing my hair (one of my meds is primarily used as chemo for cancer patients), bone marrow toxicity (I don't produce enough red or white blood cells anymore), lowered immunity, and the potential for liver failure, leukemia, lymphoma, brain infections, and sudden death. But without the meds, I will die, and it will be slow and excruciatingly painful. So it's a lesser of two evils choice. I've been eating a little bit of meat but finding it hard to stomach. We'll see how that goes, I guess.

When I got sick, I was actually in a specialized trauma/dissociative disorders unit at a psych hospital. It was a very stressful environment. With my illness, stress can trigger flares for some people, but it's not what causes the initial onset of the disease. They don't know exactly what causes it--it's an autoimmune disease--but genetics probably play a big role. Another leading theory is that exposure to antibiotics in childhood may play a part, and due to chronic ear infections, I was almost always on antibiotics as a child. But the short version is that while they don't know precisely what causes it, stress and diet are definitely not causes.

Yes, I did send the resume, finally. Not sure what my chances are of actually getting the job, but at least now I'm not stressing myself out about writing the resume.

Good luck with the application!

Well these are exciting times then! I wouldn't recommend no sleep or too much caffeine - apparently it can make symptoms worse for some people? (I googled it Plus, my mum had stomach problems because of coffee and when she stopped drinking it it greatly improved) You haven't been getting paid for this either, no? If I were you I'd take it easy... But I know how one can get drawn into the excitement!
Are you doing the organizing from home, via phone and social media?

Sorry to hear that you've had to take so many meds...
I read a webmd article that said while diet and stress don't cause UC, they can make it worse. For many autoimmune diseases, nutrition can play a role...
I even heard that someone with Crohn's got really better with nutrition and maybe meditation and such, but it took years to find the right approach.

I'm wondering what would happen if you could really calm down and relax? (poverty alleviation and good transport and such would probably be needed for that) Maybe your symptoms could lessen or go in remission, or the side effects could diminish? Just wondering... Did you have any relatively stress-free time since the diagnosis?

I think all health and unhealth is a combination of genetics, environment and self-activity... There can be many 'little factors' that contribute...
It's good that you know a lot about your illness/condition from the medical point - did you also look into any more 'alternative'/holistic explanations or approaches?

My dad cured his rheumatism with nutrition+exercise, when 'official' medicine was just pushing pills on him that weren't really making things better. He read a lot of books and is now almost the healthiest of all of us! So while official medicine is great for some things, for others, it still doesn't have all answers and sometimes it's good to look 'outside' of it for answers too...

Did you manage to take a look at EFT and TAT? I know they may sound a bit 'weird' at first, but even though that might be so, they've been helpful for people with PTSD or depression or other problems too... Just don't do EFT before sleep, it can make me 'jazzed' with energy. I don't really recommend TAT before sleep either.
emofree site used to have a free booklet which seems payable now, but you have videos all over YouTube and free EFT booklets online too... (You can google 'eft depression' - it seems there were even studies done on this EFT Universe - Tapping Emotional Freedom Techniques | Scientific Research ) So I hope you try them!

Also, being behind computer for more than 5 hours can cause depression (study done in Japan). Why using a computer can cause depression | Daily Mail Online So it would be good to limit the time you're on - I know it's probably hard now, as it's your only 'window' in to the world, plus it's the time before elections! Things to consider though....

YAY for sending the resume! Fingers crossed!!

((hugz))

I limit my caffeine intake, but it's never seemed to have any major impact on my symptoms. (Except that time in high school I drank 3 pots of coffee in a night. Never doing that again.) I'm already sleep deprived; that's a chronic thing and I'm as used to that as anyone can be. (Multiple sleep disorders.)

A lot of the work I do from home, yes. My region covers about 1/3 of the state. (Our regions are broken up by population, not area, so while we have 7 regions in MA, most of them are at the eat end of the state.) It would be pretty much impossible to organize the whole region in person, so a lot of it gets done via phone and internet. I do a lot of our region's data management and social media stuff, which is all computerized. We have a Get Out the Vote summit tomorrow night, so I'll find out what they need me to do this time around. I was a staging location director for the primary, so I imagine they'll have me doing something similar again.

As far as IBD, there are some people who have successfully gone into remission with lifestyle changes alone, but they're a minority, and it's frankly dangerous to suggest that everyone can control their disease that way. It's not just a tummy ache and a little diarrhea--this almost killed me when I first got sick, and I'm not willing to muck about with my meds at the risk of getting sicker. I already eat an extremely restrictive diet--no gluten, dairy, eggs, or corn, and very limited fiber, as well as avoiding a few other trigger foods.

Most holistic treatments are out of reach for me because I cannot access of afford them. There used to be a sliding scale acupuncture clinic in my town, and I got some degree of pain relief from that. But they shut down last winter. Basically, if my insurance doesn't cover it, I can't afford it.

I don't know what I would do for the other 19 hours a day, if not computer related. Most days I have trouble reading because I can't focus well enough, and there's not a lot else to occupy my time. I spend inordinate amounts of time playing The Sims--I can create people and control their lives without hurting anyone. Plus, it's a lot easier to make my sims happy than myself. But without my computer, all I'd do would be to lie in bed and stare at the walls, which would probably make me even more depressed.