[Claritytoo]

Can fragmented parts have executive control. Can they do things like catch a frog or pick up sand? I am still learning about my system and I wanted to know if anyone has a thought on this.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Claritytoo

Can fragmented parts have executive control. Can they do things like catch a frog or pick up sand? I am still learning about my system and I wanted to know if anyone has a thought on this.

how much, what and how often and what an alter (even fragmented ones) can and cant do is different for everyone, each persons internal system of alters is set up how ever they needed it to be in order to survive.

in other words some can and some cant do the things you are asking about. only you and your treatment provider knows what your internal system of alters can and has done to ensure your survival.

keep working with your treatment providers and what your internal system is like, what your alters can and cant do will be clear to you when the time is right for your alters to share that information with you.

[possum220]

No sure what you mean by "executive control" ?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Claritytoo

Can fragmented parts have executive control. Can they do things like catch a frog or pick up sand? I am still learning about my system and I wanted to know if anyone has a thought on this.

I noticed another poster asked about executive control and wanted to add.. here where I live executive control means total control of the body..I did have alters that took total control of the body, some were fragments...

here the word fragment means the alter is not a fully formed/functioning alternate personality. by that we mean the alter is very limited in what it can and cant do where as alternate personalities that are complete dont have such a limited functionality.

example of the differences in a fragmented alter and a fully functioning alter in my internal system of alters...

a fragmented alter in my internal system was a sad one, it was limited to doing and being just one thing being sad, just moped around with a sad face, doing nothing but sitting around being sad.

a completely formed/ functioning alternate personality was another of my sad alters... this showed the same sad demeanor as the fragmented one but this one also cried, had suicidal thoughts, and preferred being alone.

Another example

An alter that held the memory of being pushed down had only one behavior pattern sitting on the floor as if someone just pushed her down and cried. switch into this fragmented alter and all I did was fall to the ground and cry as if someone had pushed me down.

another completely formed/functioning alter held the rest of that memory so they were able to get angry, jump up, and yell at who ever was doing the pushing, fight back if needed and then went to do other things away from those trying to harm us.

if you were here in NY under the same rules and definition of a fragmented alter yes the fragmented alter would be able to pick up the sand, but thats all they would be able to do, or pick up a frog and thats all they could do.

one way we (treatment providers and those with DID alike ) keep the term fragmented straight and how to tell when an alter is a fragmented alter is by "repetition".

by that I mean I (and my treatment providers) knew which were my fragmented alters and which ones were the complete functioning ones was by how they repeated the same things over and over again, never deviating (never learning, never changing, never able to be coaxed to something else) from that action, thought, way of being.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

I noticed another poster asked about executive control and wanted to add.. here where I live executive control means total control of the body..I did have alters that took total control of the body, some were fragments...

here the word fragment means the alter is not a fully formed/functioning alternate personality. by that we mean the alter is very limited in what it can and cant do where as alternate personalities that are complete dont have such a limited functionality.

example of the differences in a fragmented alter and a fully functioning alter in my internal system of alters...

a fragmented alter in my internal system was a sad one, it was limited to doing and being just one thing being sad, just moped around with a sad face, doing nothing but sitting around being sad.

a completely formed/ functioning alternate personality was another of my sad alters... this showed the same sad demeanor as the fragmented one but this one also cried, had suicidal thoughts, and preferred being alone.

Another example

An alter that held the memory of being pushed down had only one behavior pattern sitting on the floor as if someone just pushed her down and cried. switch into this fragmented alter and all I did was fall to the ground and cry as if someone had pushed me down.

another completely formed/functioning alter held the rest of that memory so they were able to get angry, jump up, and yell at who ever was doing the pushing, fight back if needed and then went to do other things away from those trying to harm us.

if you were here in NY under the same rules and definition of a fragmented alter yes the fragmented alter would be able to pick up the sand, but thats all they would be able to do, or pick up a frog and thats all they could do.

one way we (treatment providers and those with DID alike ) keep the term fragmented straight and how to tell when an alter is a fragmented alter is by "repetition".

by that I mean I (and my treatment providers) knew which were my fragmented alters and which ones were the complete functioning ones was by how they repeated the same things over and over again, never deviating (never learning, never changing, never able to be coaxed to something else) from that action, thought, way of being.

Thank you for this info. When I began to learn more about my system I didn't know how to describe some of my alters so I would tell my t that some were one dimensional and others were three dimensional. Now I understand the one dimensional ones to be fragments. One of my fragmented alters is happy and inquisitive, that is who she is, Once my t asked her what she like to eat, she didn't know what my t was saying, she became afraid of this new information and hid for a few months. Popping out only once or twice to look around, than going back in and hiding. She is better now. That is when I realized how many of my alters are specific to one task or emotion. I have three or four alters that I know of who are fully functioning. Everybody else holds a specific emotion. Your explanation has helped me understand my system better.

[jax01]

Some of my others aren't whole functional alters. they were made to do things, and that's all they do. you could say they are their job. some have little or no ability to communicate. some can only repeat certain things.
The alters that i am co-conscious with, (or can be) can speak as well as I can. Do things I can do. they've said in therapy that they can take what they want from me and use it. that I'm an open book to them, but I can't do the same with them.
which make me wonder if i am the original, or not?

[Claritytoo]

I don't believe I am the original. I can ask my alters if they will do something but I can't make them. Most of us work well together and they will take my advice. But I have recently met others that I wasn't aware of and they don't listen to me, I am not even sure they know I am here. I can hear them and feel what they are feeling but I can not influence their actions. They do not acknowledge me. There is someone who can speak to them and does. I am not sure who that is. But it surprised me to find a separate group than the one I know. This seperate seem to have more negative feelings. It make me uncertain of my potential actions sometimes, this causes me to not move into areas I am not familiar with. Although I do think believe I need to get to know them and them me.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by jax01

Some of my others aren't whole functional alters. they were made to do things, and that's all they do. you could say they are their job. some have little or no ability to communicate. some can only repeat certain things.
The alters that i am co-conscious with, (or can be) can speak as well as I can. Do things I can do. they've said in therapy that they can take what they want from me and use it. that I'm an open book to them, but I can't do the same with them.
which make me wonder if i am the original, or not?

Im sorry we cant say one way or the other whether you are the original or an alter...

what I can say is sometimes it it very hard to tell who is who and who is the host/core (the original in your words)

sometimes lack of co consciousness means the one in control is the host (original in your words)

sometimes lack of co consciousness with others in the same body just means thats how your internal system works best with the alters not sharing information, memories events between each other..

to find out which is it with you, contact your treatment providers, they will be able to explain how your internal system works and whether you are the host or an alter.

[Crew]

I feel that even though we all understand what being Dissociative feels like were all so different. Write to your parts, everyone is different. Ask those questions to your T so they can help YOU figure it out.


Crew

[DancingAlone]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

I noticed another poster asked about executive control and wanted to add.. here where I live executive control means total control of the body..I did have alters that took total control of the body, some were fragments...

here the word fragment means the alter is not a fully formed/functioning alternate personality. by that we mean the alter is very limited in what it can and cant do where as alternate personalities that are complete dont have such a limited functionality.

example of the differences in a fragmented alter and a fully functioning alter in my internal system of alters...

a fragmented alter in my internal system was a sad one, it was limited to doing and being just one thing being sad, just moped around with a sad face, doing nothing but sitting around being sad.

a completely formed/ functioning alternate personality was another of my sad alters... this showed the same sad demeanor as the fragmented one but this one also cried, had suicidal thoughts, and preferred being alone.

Another example

An alter that held the memory of being pushed down had only one behavior pattern sitting on the floor as if someone just pushed her down and cried. switch into this fragmented alter and all I did was fall to the ground and cry as if someone had pushed me down.

another completely formed/functioning alter held the rest of that memory so they were able to get angry, jump up, and yell at who ever was doing the pushing, fight back if needed and then went to do other things away from those trying to harm us.

if you were here in NY under the same rules and definition of a fragmented alter yes the fragmented alter would be able to pick up the sand, but thats all they would be able to do, or pick up a frog and thats all they could do.

one way we (treatment providers and those with DID alike ) keep the term fragmented straight and how to tell when an alter is a fragmented alter is by "repetition".

by that I mean I (and my treatment providers) knew which were my fragmented alters and which ones were the complete functioning ones was by how they repeated the same things over and over again, never deviating (never learning, never changing, never able to be coaxed to something else) from that action, thought, way of being.

Amandalouise, thank you deeply for this detailed information. I never knew these things. May I copy it and place it in my DID folder? I'm 65 and the pdoc I've been seeing, mostly for bipolar and to get my medications, has just now found me a therapist.

It may be too late for me, but I truly would like to know what the hell is going on in this head. I've always said my brain is segmented, or compartmentalized, and that thoughts had to go thru it all before i could come to a decision, for example. Now I hear it's called "fragmented alters"....are they talking amongst themselves? do they make decisions to try and influence "me"? i get so mixed up. oh dear, so many questions...and i'm using capital letters...oh dear...

It makes some inside feel sad. "I" don't want to be "cured" from DID, needing the protection and would be too afraid and alone. But even with DID (dx'd 2010--should have been caught in 1969 while inpatient) and bipolar (dx'd 1996--they missed that too), I also simply thought I was just crazy.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by DancingAlone

Amandalouise, thank you deeply for this detailed information. I never knew these things. May I copy it and place it in my DID folder? I'm 65 and the pdoc I've been seeing, mostly for bipolar and to get my medications, has just now found me a therapist.

It may be too late for me, but I truly would like to know what the hell is going on in this head. I've always said my brain is segmented, or compartmentalized, and that thoughts had to go thru it all before i could come to a decision, for example. Now I hear it's called "fragmented alters"....are they talking amongst themselves? do they make decisions to try and influence "me"? i get so mixed up. oh dear, so many questions...and i'm using capital letters...oh dear...

It makes some inside feel sad. "I" don't want to be "cured" from DID, needing the protection and would be too afraid and alone. But even with DID (dx'd 2010--should have been caught in 1969 while inpatient) and bipolar (dx'd 1996--they missed that too), I also simply thought I was just crazy.

yes you may print this off and save it in your folder. But please understand that what I posted only related to me and what treatment providers in my location believe about fragmented alters. other locations and treatment providers may believe it to be different.

whats best for you is to go according to what your own treatment providers believe about DID, Alters and types of alters.

As for your other questions towards the end of your post...here where I live and work it is believed alters with DID regardless of whether they are fragmented or complete do talk /discuss things between each other and they do influence a hosts behavior.

example how would my complete sad alter know when to take over for the fragmented sad alter and come to our aid? there had to be some sort of communication going on internally in order for the completely formed alter to know when to come out and fight a battle with the bullies.

and if my behavior wasnt influenced by the sad fragmented alter then why did I physically fall down and cry... because the sad fragmented alter made my body behave that way, while she was in control..the diagnostic criteria that got me diagnosed with DID was alters taking over control of my body.. its just a given that alters control (or in your words influence) a hosts behavior. if they didnt I would not have met that diagnostic criteria of alters taking over control.

[amandalouise]

DancingAlone....rereading Your post I wanted to add something about this...

Originally Posted by DancingAlone

It may be too late for me, but I truly would like to know what the hell is going on in this head. I've always said my brain is segmented, or compartmentalized, and that thoughts had to go thru it all before i could come to a decision, for example. Now I hear it's called "fragmented alters"....

my alters being catagorical (in your words segmented or compartmentalized) in my thoughts.the alters their self had their own ways of being but related to my having DID alters my head didnt have to go through this long drawn out decision making process where every decision I made had to go through it all first, analyzing every angle, every pro and con, every detail. my alters were so catagorical (in your words segmented or compartmentalized) that they all did everything their own way and did not make decisions together...

example sunny wanted make up, rainy wanted no make up, Fancy wanted ruby red nail polish and Spring wanted neutral Tan polish... the result was I would become aware and find I had both ruby red and tan nail polish on, and my new make up on my face and the left over new make up smashed all over the vanity.

where my brain had to go through all the thinking process with making decisions was with my having bipolar... when I was in a manic phase I made decisions without thinking about them or the consequences of making snap decisions, when I was not in mania my head would think things through, every detail, every possible outcome, every angle. On medication for my bipolar and when the meds are working correctly I dont go through as much mania phases and can control my behavior and decision making process much better.

my suggestion talk with your treatment providers, they can tell you whats going on in your head, which behavior/thinking patterns are because of your DID and which are because of your having other problems.

[DancingAlone]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

As for your other questions towards the end of your post...here where I live and work it is believed alters with DID regardless of whether they are fragmented or complete do talk /discuss things between each other and they do influence a hosts behavior.

example how would my complete sad alter know when to take over for the fragmented sad alter and come to our aid? there had to be some sort of communication going on internally in order for the completely formed alter to know when to come out and fight a battle with the bullies.

and if my behavior wasnt influenced by the sad fragmented alter then why did I physically fall down and cry... because the sad fragmented alter made my body behave that way, while she was in control..the diagnostic criteria that got me diagnosed with DID was alters taking over control of my body.. its just a given that alters control (or in your words influence) a hosts behavior. if they didnt I would not have met that diagnostic criteria of alters taking over control.

Originally Posted by amandalouise

DancingAlone....rereading Your post I wanted to add something about this...

my alters being catagorical (in your words segmented or compartmentalized) in my thoughts.the alters their self had their own ways of being but related to my having DID alters my head didnt have to go through this long drawn out decision making process where every decision I made had to go through it all first, analyzing every angle, every pro and con, every detail. my alters were so catagorical (in your words segmented or compartmentalized) that they all did everything their own way and did not make decisions together...

where my brain had to go through all the thinking process with making decisions was with my having bipolar... when I was in a manic phase I made decisions without thinking about them or the consequences of making snap decisions, when I was not in mania my head would think things through, every detail, every possible outcome, every angle. On medication for my bipolar and when the meds are working correctly I dont go through as much mania phases and can control my behavior and decision making process much better.

my suggestion talk with your treatment providers, they can tell you whats going on in your head, which behavior/thinking patterns are because of your DID and which are because of your having other problems.

Amandalouise, you have no idea how much i appreciate this information. it may very well be that i am only now being allowed to know these things. the walls between each of the ones within that are in place against me have prevented so much information from being allowed into my own awareness. i have no idea why. maybe they felt that too much information would make me go away for good (a fear i've always had but never understood what it meant).

remaining hypervigilant, medicated from bipolar meds, and my faith have been what's kept me going. the gatekeepers guards the main wall where the "others" and the soldiers are. lily left months ago - i got so tired of her whining and crying and making me act silly in public! but the others, to actually know more, Amanda, would put me over the edge. i hear them whispering, and i know they protect me more than making me do what THEY want, as in your example about makeup preferences. sometimes, DID is scarier than if i hadn't ever dssocated, even though i won't ever let go of the others - i need them at the same time i'm scared of what they know or even that they exist!

you've explained more than i ever knew (or was afraid to know subjectively). i really appreciate the time you took explaining a very puzzling aspect of DID.

do you find that the bipolar complicates everything? sometimes when i'm manic, it's near impossible for me to put a cap on those racing thoughts - it causes so much chaos! and i'm on 450mg seroquel (am also on celexa (and valium for PTSD, anxiety, etc.)

i live alone but it feels SO crowded here - so many voices and "beings" vying for attention. mostly all day long i spend a lot of mental energy pushing thoughts back and away from me - i try SO hard to keep them hidden (did it for years but didn't know WHAT i was keeping hidden!!!)

when i first came here, i didn't spend much time at all in the bipolar forum, but started reading about DID. wasn't dx'd until 2010 and all of a sudden there were voices everywhere! they respond to posts, to anything in the DID forum, like they're screaming to be set free.

but all these years, i refused, because i truly thought i was crazy. even so, my writings from even 30 years ago show the DID (using "we" and not catching it, etc.)

thank you dear Amanda. obviously something has been reawakened in this brain. maybe they will be gentle with "me" and not allow too much to be known, until i understand more.

p.s. i was getting therapy for it finally, but the pdoc scared some of us and we told her to go to hell. i am just now getting my first therapist. is it normal to feel fear? what are we hiding? ohhh have go go now, the're blocking everyhtng

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by DancingAlone

Amandalouise, you have no idea how much i appreciate this information. it may very well be that i am only now being allowed to know these things. the walls between each of the ones within that are in place against me have prevented so much information from being allowed into my own awareness. i have no idea why. maybe they felt that too much information would make me go away for good (a fear i've always had but never understood what it meant).

remaining hypervigilant, medicated from bipolar meds, and my faith have been what's kept me going. the gatekeepers guards the main wall where the "others" and the soldiers are. lily left months ago - i got so tired of her whining and crying and making me act silly in public! but the others, to actually know more, Amanda, would put me over the edge. i hear them whispering, and i know they protect me more than making me do what THEY want, as in your example about makeup preferences. sometimes, DID is scarier than if i hadn't ever dssocated, even though i won't ever let go of the others - i need them at the same time i'm scared of what they know or even that they exist!

you've explained more than i ever knew (or was afraid to know subjectively). i really appreciate the time you took explaining a very puzzling aspect of DID.

do you find that the bipolar complicates everything? sometimes when i'm manic, it's near impossible for me to put a cap on those racing thoughts - it causes so much chaos! and i'm on 450mg seroquel (am also on celexa (and valium for PTSD, anxiety, etc.)

i live alone but it feels SO crowded here - so many voices and "beings" vying for attention. mostly all day long i spend a lot of mental energy pushing thoughts back and away from me - i try SO hard to keep them hidden (did it for years but didn't know WHAT i was keeping hidden!!!)

when i first came here, i didn't spend much time at all in the bipolar forum, but started reading about DID. wasn't dx'd until 2010 and all of a sudden there were voices everywhere! they respond to posts, to anything in the DID forum, like they're screaming to be set free.

but all these years, i refused, because i truly thought i was crazy. even so, my writings from even 30 years ago show the DID (using "we" and not catching it, etc.)

thank you dear Amanda. obviously something has been reawakened in this brain. maybe they will be gentle with "me" and not allow too much to be known, until i understand more.

p.s. i was getting therapy for it finally, but the pdoc scared some of us and we told her to go to hell. i am just now getting my first therapist. is it normal to feel fear? what are we hiding? ohhh have go go now, the're blocking everyhtng

bipolar wise yes my thoughts can race and be quite a problem but over all my medication does a great job of helping out as does the time my psychiatrist and therapist spend with me.

DID wise my head is very much uncomplicated and quiet. a few yrs ago all my alters integrated/merged with me so dissociative wise I am now one whole person. I still have dissociative issues but none as complicated as when I had alters that were separated going their own ways.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by DancingAlone

Amandalouise, you have no idea how much i appreciate this information. it may very well be that i am only now being allowed to know these things. the walls between each of the ones within that are in place against me have prevented so much information from being allowed into my own awareness. i have no idea why. maybe they felt that too much information would make me go away for good (a fear i've always had but never understood what it meant).

remaining hypervigilant, medicated from bipolar meds, and my faith have been what's kept me going. the gatekeepers guards the main wall where the "others" and the soldiers are. lily left months ago - i got so tired of her whining and crying and making me act silly in public! but the others, to actually know more, Amanda, would put me over the edge. i hear them whispering, and i know they protect me more than making me do what THEY want, as in your example about makeup preferences. sometimes, DID is scarier than if i hadn't ever dssocated, even though i won't ever let go of the others - i need them at the same time i'm scared of what they know or even that they exist!

you've explained more than i ever knew (or was afraid to know subjectively). i really appreciate the time you took explaining a very puzzling aspect of DID.

do you find that the bipolar complicates everything? sometimes when i'm manic, it's near impossible for me to put a cap on those racing thoughts - it causes so much chaos! and i'm on 450mg seroquel (am also on celexa (and valium for PTSD, anxiety, etc.)

i live alone but it feels SO crowded here - so many voices and "beings" vying for attention. mostly all day long i spend a lot of mental energy pushing thoughts back and away from me - i try SO hard to keep them hidden (did it for years but didn't know WHAT i was keeping hidden!!!)

when i first came here, i didn't spend much time at all in the bipolar forum, but started reading about DID. wasn't dx'd until 2010 and all of a sudden there were voices everywhere! they respond to posts, to anything in the DID forum, like they're screaming to be set free.

but all these years, i refused, because i truly thought i was crazy. even so, my writings from even 30 years ago show the DID (using "we" and not catching it, etc.)

thank you dear Amanda. obviously something has been reawakened in this brain. maybe they will be gentle with "me" and not allow too much to be known, until i understand more.

p.s. i was getting therapy for it finally, but the pdoc scared some of us and we told her to go to hell. i am just now getting my first therapist. is it normal to feel fear? what are we hiding? ohhh have go go now, the're blocking everyhtng

I want to respond to your concerns of feeling fear of what the others might know. I have been dealing with this for forever and it is only recently that I have sorted some things out that may make it possible for me to know and feel the emotions and pain without the fear/panic.
I realized that my feelings of panic are physiological. That my body sends signals of panic through increased hart rate, adrenaline, muscle tension, and shortness of breath. My thoughts than kick in and extreme thoughts of danger begin to run through my head, even though there is no present danger, I am not going to die, and there is no reason for me to be having the fight or flight reaction. I have an alter who is panic, she flips a switch and off we go. I have explained to her that she is needed but only when we are actually in a life threatening situation. That the fearful feelings and emotional pain of my past feelings will not kill us but must be released so we can live in the present. Right now I am helping the small ones to feel safe and once they understand they are safe they will let me know what they know. But now I am certain that no matter what they share with us we will all be ok, we will all be fine. And we will all be free to live and feel in the present. I hope this helps in some way. Take care.