[blackwhitered]

Do you think it's possible? I've met a number of people online who claim to be natural multiples. They usually don't have a DID diagnosis, but a lot of them say that's because 1. it doesn't cause problems and is therefore not a "disorder" and/or 2. because they don't have the trauma part of the diagnosis.

I've seen some people with DID react to such claims with anger (I know in my experience with psychosis that it can be frustrating to see others making light of your diagnosis) but I wanted to see what the consensus was.

I've just been thinking that what if, hypothetically, people can be genetically predisposed to multiplicity (because not everyone who endures childhood trauma develops DID) and things like trauma trigger it? But what if some people have a genetic predisposition to it, but don't require severe trauma to trigger it?

I'm sorry if I come across as ignorant or disrespectful! I just wanted to see what your opinions were.

[HazelGirl]

My thoughts:

When people say that, I am willing to believe one of two things is going on.
1. They have trauma and don't yet know it. Repression and splitting can cause them to be completely unaware of the trauma while knowing that they have alters.
2. They're faking/hypochondriac/convinced themselves they do.

Yes, DID (and all dissociation) has genetic factors. But there has to be a traumatic situation that triggers that split.

[blackwhitered]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

My thoughts:

When people say that, I am willing to believe one of two things is going on.
1. They have trauma and don't yet know it. Repression and splitting can cause them to be completely unaware of the trauma while knowing that they have alters.
2. They're faking/hypochondriac/convinced themselves they do.

Yes, DID (and all dissociation) has genetic factors. But there has to be a traumatic situation that triggers that split.

I remember seeing a study somewhere (if I can remember where, I'll post the link) that even people who repress details or specific traumas usually don't have total amnesia for all the abuse... And I think key gaps in childhood memory would be telling for these "natural multiples" (some of whom don't report much memory loss, which is another reason they often don't get DID diagnoses)... So I don't think it's #1.

I think #2 is an unfair stance as well because how often do diagnosed DID systems get accused of faking? I don't think it's wise to divide the community further by having systems accusing others of being real or false.

As for the traumatic situation being required for a split, I know that is the consensus in the community, but it's very hard to find research in this area. I have seen research that shows that the majority of DID patients report abuse or trauma in childhood. But I can't find any studies on the minority, i.e. "natural multiples". I also can't find any research that shows a causal link between the two...

The other problem with DID research in this area is that it's one of those things you can't experiment on. Like the "forbidden experiment" of depriving a young child of language until puberty to see what happens, it is impossible to experiment in inducing DID in individuals via trauma. Even attempting to induce DID without trauma would be unethical because you would be trying to give someone a disorder...

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by blackwhitered

I remember seeing a study somewhere (if I can remember where, I'll post the link) that even people who repress details or specific traumas usually don't have total amnesia for all the abuse... And I think key gaps in childhood memory would be telling for these "natural multiples" (some of whom don't report much memory loss, which is another reason they often don't get DID diagnoses)... So I don't think it's #1.

I think #2 is an unfair stance as well because how often do diagnosed DID systems get accused of faking? I don't think it's wise to divide the community further by having systems accusing others of being real or false.

As for the traumatic situation being required for a split, I know that is the consensus in the community, but it's very hard to find research in this area. I have seen research that shows that the majority of DID patients report abuse or trauma in childhood. But I can't find any studies on the minority, i.e. "natural multiples". I also can't find any research that shows a causal link between the two...

The other problem with DID research in this area is that it's one of those things you can't experiment on. Like the "forbidden experiment" of depriving a young child of language until puberty to see what happens, it is impossible to experiment in inducing DID in individuals via trauma. Even attempting to induce DID without trauma would be unethical because you would be trying to give someone a disorder...

I see what you are saying, and I wouldn't ever accuse someone of faking. You asked my opinion, so I shared it, but I wouldn't ever tell this to someone who claimed to be a natural multiple. I don't know whether it's possible, but if it is, I would guess it's HIGHLY uncommon.

[blackwhitered]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

I see what you are saying, and I wouldn't ever accuse someone of faking. You asked my opinion, so I shared it, but I wouldn't ever tell this to someone who claimed to be a natural multiple. I don't know whether it's possible, but if it is, I would guess it's HIGHLY uncommon.

I thank you for your opinion! I was hoping to start a dialogue.

Yes, "natural multiples" do seem to be the minority, but they've been gaining in numbers on tumblr and whatnot.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by blackwhitered

I thank you for your opinion! I was hoping to start a dialogue.

Yes, "natural multiples" do seem to be the minority, but they've been gaining in numbers on tumblr and whatnot.

To add: I would guess that the experience that a "natural multiple" has (if there is such a thing) would be VASTLY different than the experience of a trauma survivor. Although they may present with some similar symptoms, their overall experience is probably so different, it would be almost unrelateable.

[IzzyMeadows]

And do remember trauma varies by person. They mught have been very genetically predisposed and something that they might not consider trauma set them off. I have things in my past that are very dark, obviously traumatic but I also have things that comparatively you would wonder why I even remember it. Like my mom's pet name for me was "selfish little *****". Though it isn't even on the same level as the CSA and everything else I experienced, that was traumatic to me.

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[blackwhitered]

Originally Posted by IzzyMeadows

And do remember trauma varies by person. They mught have been very genetically predisposed and something that they might not consider trauma set them off. I have things in my past that are very dark, obviously traumatic but I also have things that comparatively you would wonder why I even remember it. Like my mom's pet name for me was "selfish little *****". Though it isn't even on the same level as the CSA and everything else I experienced, that was traumatic to me.

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This is one possibility I considered as well. We already know that different people experience stress differently. So maybe for some sensitive people, prolonged stress, even without trauma, could trigger them to become a multiple...

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by blackwhitered

Do you think it's possible? I've met a number of people online who claim to be natural multiples. They usually don't have a DID diagnosis, but a lot of them say that's because 1. it doesn't cause problems and is therefore not a "disorder" and/or 2. because they don't have the trauma part of the diagnosis.

I've seen some people with DID react to such claims with anger (I know in my experience with psychosis that it can be frustrating to see others making light of your diagnosis) but I wanted to see what the consensus was.

I've just been thinking that what if, hypothetically, people can be genetically predisposed to multiplicity (because not everyone who endures childhood trauma develops DID) and things like trauma trigger it? But what if some people have a genetic predisposition to it, but don't require severe trauma to trigger it?

I'm sorry if I come across as ignorant or disrespectful! I just wanted to see what your opinions were.

my own opinion follows what treatment providers and the mental health system here in NY (the one in the USA as opposed to the ones in other countries) believe...

dissociation is a normal response for human due to many different things....boredom, repetition, stress, anxiety, trauma....

but DID (in your words multiplicity) happens when a very young child under the age of 5 is extremely abused/traumatized for which there is no physical escape from. here in NY Treatment providers, the mental health system nor I believe in natural (no extremely traumatic abuse) multiplicity.

that's not saying there are not any cases that seam to have no cause....sometimes the trauma that caused a person to be DID is so hidden from the host they do not know they were abused, which may or may not account for those online that say they were not abused but have DID.

we cant speculate on whether another person has been abused or not and whether their DID exists due to the rules of this site is that we do not question the validity of a persons diagnosis....

but I have noticed an online trend in various mental health support groups and various self made Dissociative disorders internet groups......over time if I follow someones posting history with in that internet group usually what happens is eventually either the host who previously posted they have never been abused but have DID, one day their postings change to their remembering an abuse or their alters are able to post disclosing that abuse.

[IzzyMeadows]

Where did you get an age limit of under 5? My abuse was at 6..

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[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by IzzyMeadows

Where did you get an age limit of under 5? My abuse was at 6..

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Probably a generic answer based on child development. Every child develops differently, though.

[blackwhitered]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Probably a generic answer based on child development. Every child develops differently, though.

I've heard that the trauma happens before 9 or 10 in most cases...

Also to clarify, I used the word "multiplicity" rather than "DID" because the majority of "natural multiples" do NOT have a DID diagnosis.

[possum220]

I do not understand the term 'natural multiplicity'. Despite the fact that term MPD was redefined as DID. May as well call other mental ilnesses natural bipolar or natural schizophrenia. Any mental illness is something that is caused through many factors. Not wanting a formal diagnosis is fine. Its like some-one who has a broken leg (Bone poking through the skin) saying its just a natural broken leg. Get it fixed, or dont get it fixed. It still doesn't make it any less real.

For those who say that they are a 'natural multiple' and have had no trauma, then they cannot be defined as a multiple. However, a really close look at their childhood, at medical trauma, etc, at their circumstances may reveal that there was trauma that caused them to dissociate but they are not yet ready deal with it. Dissociation by definition is to be 'away' from something.

If you dont want to be diagnosed with something then don't go and see a qualified psychiatrist. To try to dig up another name for a serious, sometimes crippling mental illness, is to show how removed from reality a person is. I think the term natural multiplicity is foolishness. But that's just my opinion.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by IzzyMeadows

Where did you get an age limit of under 5? My abuse was at 6..

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state / local documented mental health statistics from reported child abuse cases and reported adult cases of those with DID.

you can find out what the belief and statistics are in your state by contacting mental health agencies in your location. its easy just tell them something like you are a college student looking for demographics on mental disorders in your location and what you need to know from them. most mental health agencies are very willing to help students with term papers, learning about mental disorders, demographics/statistics and all kinds of other things too.

[-jimi-]

To be split to a DID degree is one thing and comes with its own setting of issues. But to be split to a much lesser degree, I kind of feel like, how can you NOT be? Who got to decide a brain can only have one single personality? Isn't that a simplification people tell themselves not to freak out?

Certain brain damage like surgery to cut off the corpus callosum, can cause a person to act like different people, even simultaneously. The brain is so full of surprises, it's not weird that sometimes something unusual must pop up once in a blue moon.

Sure, sometimes people fake, but there are indeed people out there who are very different than others. I would doubt it more if they presented a textbook case of DID but said it was innate.

[Douglas MacNeill]

I had the opportunity to read Rita Carter's book on that topic
(Multiplicity). Rita offers an intriguing idea when she suggests
that for each of our separate principal social roles, we adopt (in effect)
a separate personality to fit that role. I can see the controversy
regarding her idea; is there enough in common between the sets of
behavior, ways of talking, ways of thinking, and so on that each of
us adopts across various social roles to suggest one personality in
common across those roles? It's an open question where people can
disagree; I have no more definitive answer, one way or the other, than
any of you.

[blackwhitered]

Originally Posted by possum220

I do not understand the term 'natural multiplicity'. Despite the fact that term MPD was redefined as DID. May as well call other mental ilnesses natural bipolar or natural schizophrenia. Any mental illness is something that is caused through many factors. Not wanting a formal diagnosis is fine. Its like some-one who has a broken leg (Bone poking through the skin) saying its just a natural broken leg. Get it fixed, or dont get it fixed. It still doesn't make it any less real.

I think your metaphor is misleading. A physical equivalent to schizophrenia might be baldness or Huntington's disease. A trait you have the genes for at birth.
DID, by comparison, would be, as you said, like a broken bone-- something that may have genetic factors but is ultimately decided by outside factors.
The question would then be, is multiplicity like diabetes or cancer? Where one type results from outside factors while another type can be there from birth (or the genetic coding for it there)?