[InACorner]

"Sybil" fake???? what do you guys think???

http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/sybilbogus.html

Personally i think she was real...here are a few excerpts that stood out for me...

"The tapes also show Schreiber improperly dismissing a letter Sybil wrote to Wilbur in which she denies having multiple personalities, Rieber said. The letter is reproduced in Schreiber's book. v Rieber's conclusions fall in line with previously published opinions by Dr. Herbert Spiegel, a New York psychiatrist who used Sybil in hypnotism research and says he was her surrogate therapist when Wilbur was out of town."

-I believe they took this out of context...first of all ....according to book as well as movie....."Sybil" denied having mulitple personalities due to denial...yes she wrote a letter to Wilbur....but it was only through denial...and we all know .....when in denial ...you will think of anything to believe when your trying not to accept the reality.......

"Spiegel also concluded that Sybil's so-called personalities actually arose from Wilbur's therapeutic technique of giving names to various emotional states Sybil experienced. The problem was that Wilbur mistakenly came to believe that they really were dist inct personalities, Spiegel said. He said Sybil told him one day that Wilbur wanted her "to be Helen" when talking about a particular event in Sybil's past."

Obiviously, Many DID persons cannot take charge of their alters.....but when coaxed/needed one can come out....am i right?? If im not then ..my bad......anyway...if what i am thinking is true....then perhaps it was Wilburs way of coaxing Helen out...maybe not doing it the right way...but nevertheless...another view would be to understand Wilbur was trying to bring "Sybil" and her alters to come to terms with each other...to understand why each one of them is there....so perhaps Wilbur was explained to "Sybil" what part she noticed helen was of "Sybil" and how "Sybil" would think Helen would handle it ....that way "Sybil" would understand why helen was there....and how helen deals with situations....

I believe it was real and true.

There was a part in the movie where Sybil states she was 'fating' it and could produce the others at whim.

Sometimes the horrible is just too hard for people to wrap their heads around so they have to try to explain it away some other way, like dismissing it.

[(JD)]

Hmmm while I realize reading this stuff can be interesting... it might not be real supportive to cause anyone to doubt that what they suffer/live with as real? There are always naysayers... but if it's real to you, then it's real, right? (And it is real to others too )

[nothemama8]

we know we're real.
why should we have to defend ourselves
sometimes we deny to make singletons more comfortable

[Perna]

Shirley Mason, "Sybil" was not a "fake" -- there's professional argument about definitions and meaning, etc. that's been going on since the beginning of time and will continue no doubt. But Shirley was who she was, hurting and wanting help, etc.

[Rhapsody]

I personally believe she (her story) was real and IF NOT Sybil...... then there is a Mary Jane, a Sue , a Janet or a Mark - that is a true Sybil............ they are out there.

[wanttoheal]

I have never seen the movie so I can't really comment on that, but I do have DID. I have to agree with Sky on this. I'm not sure why there is a debate about whether or not DID exists based on a movie that may or may not have (but most likely) had a poetic license to make events more dramatic?

I just know, for me, I did not ask for this, I don't want this, and I am hoping one day to be able to be healed from this.

I do realize that DID is a disorder that is often under debate. But for those of us who are living with this, struggling with this, there is no debate. We just try to do the best we can in our daily life, try to cope and compensate for so much that other people take for granted.

I'm not meaning to offend here and if I did, please forgive me. People with DID need support and acceptance just like people with Bipolar, Depression, etc. We are just humans, trying to get through a day, trying to overcome obstacles that we did not ask for, just like everyone else.

I wish us all peace.

[nothemama8]

accept us for who we are not what we are, personally we trust those like us more
Reah

[InACorner]

deleted

[bipolar_bear]

I can't speak for Sybil or for that matter for anyone else. All I can say is our experience is very real. I can't remember where I read this but have found it so apropos. "We do not suffer from MPD. We survive because of MPD". Unfortunately I think that it is true for those of us here on this forum. I am sorry there are those that question our reality. I think it is so painful to us because it is like invalidating our life when we have already endured so much.

BB

[Fuzzybear]

deleted

[InACorner]

im just letting everyone know....that i know DID is real....this convo wasnt to start argumentation.....or get angry people to post....it was just supposed to be sort of...like hmmm what is the real story behind sybil....i wish people wouldnt take it so out context and sooo serious..... it was just to get you to think

[pegasus]

...........it was just to get you to think. (Quote from InACorner)

......................and you are an expert are you?

Do you know I've had over 5 years therapy so I have had plenty to think about.

ps. It's a very serious subject, NOT to be made fun of!!!

I know this might not be popular, but in defense of inacorner, I think that even if one person hypothetically was faking it, it wouldnt mean everyone was. Every person who claims a disorder or disease doesnt have to really have it for it to be true. In that way, its safe to talk about those who might not, although its may be threatening. I'm just thinking that its taken very personally here when the question was if Sybil was faking.. not you all. I dont have DID so I know I might not feel the sensitivity to the question. I know when the Duke-Lacrosse team had a woman raped it was hard hearing some people call her a liar as I so wanted to believe that no one would lie about rape,but it does happen. I don't think we should start looking for those who may be fake, but at the same time, if we are honest, we must know there are some small percentage of those who might be. It is probably possible. Just my thoughts. Sorry if it offends. They are meant in love and enlightenment.

Faking a disorder or any type of thing---r*pe or ab*se or whatever--is in itself a cry for help. It means that there IS some kind of pain that person is carrying around and the person is needing some kind of attention.....

I have recently come back from the hospital and I have seen, experienced, some really hurting people, myself included or I wouldn't have been there, but one thing I did see was that those who were hurting the most were way quieter about their pain than those that seemed to want alot more attention. But the reality was, that regardless, EVERYONE was hurting.
So, I guess in a rambling sort of way--does it REALLY matter?? Or do I care for and be empathetic to ANYONE who claims to be hurting...and know that on some level they really are......
Just my own thoughts
w_i

[nothemama8]

inny, trying very hard to understand what you are trying to say here, please try to place yourself in our shoes, we have had soooo very many ppl make fun of us, disbielve us, and shun us . maybe if you had said "what do ppl think" the way it was phrased seems like you doubt us
Reah

[ShadowsinTheDay]

Well said White Iris.

PS: Ya, I'm reading these, I hope it's not offending anyone. DID is just intresting... And I sort of have a friend with this... And ya, I do think Sybel is/ was real.
As the saying goes "What people don't understand, they hate and destroy." I also heared anotehr quote, "When people are physicly ill, people send flowers, when people are mentaly ill, people throw bricks."

ShadowsinTheDay

it is an undeniable fact that there are many individuals who meet DSM criteria for dissociative identity disorder. nobody denies that. it is an undeniable fact that the individuals who meet DSM criteria for dissociative identity disorder are in a lot of pain. nobody denies that.

one issue of debate is over whether DID is a culture bound syndrome (like hysterical paralysis and demonic possession and dissociative fugue was in France) or whether it is universal like depression. Harrison Pope (biological psychiatry, Harvard) has offered USD$1,000 to the first person to come up with an uncontroversial case of recovered memory prior to 1800, for example. There is also a great deal of controversy over whether there is an uncontroversial case of schizophrenia prior to the industrial revolution, however (which is to say that it is also debated whether schizophrenia is culture bound or universal). Interestingly people have posited a pathogen that was prevalent during the industrial revolution for schizophrenia whereas the development of technologies to recover memories (psychoanalysis) doesn't seem to have been considered on a par...

this issue seems to come down to how much the symptoms of dissociative identity disorder are a fairly invarient expressions of the underlying pathology and how much the symptoms of dissociative identity disorder are shaped by social causal mechanisms (such as interested therapists and the like). one notion is that there was demonic possession when that was considered a legitimate way of expressing distress and then there was hysterical paralysis when that was considered a legitimate way of expressing distress and now there is dissociative identity disorder...

it is a shame that many people have embraced polarities and talk about whether the disorder 'exists' or not. as i said, nobody denies that individuals meet criteria. what is debated is how the individuals got to be that way (e.g., is trauma a cause or merely a contributing factor, is the media and clinicians introducing the phenomena into popular culture a cause or merely a contributing factor etc). as always 'a bit of both and a whole lot more besides' is probably a fairer (and truer) picture.

[southernyankee]

I remember staying up all night reading the book back in the 1970's. I didn't care for the movie. Don't know if "Sybil" was real or not. I know the movie had a lot mistakes in it. This movie and a lot of other media crap did not help in understanding DID. Maybe no one ever really will.
I just know having DID helped me survive.
Has anyone read "When Rabbit Screams"?

[ShadowsinTheDay]

I think it's caled, "When the rabbit howls". I've read it. It's scary what they went though...

ShadowsinTheDay

[InACorner]

deleted

[bipolar_bear]

Maybe what Inny was trying to do was discuss others opinon on Sybil and her story only and had no bearing on her opinion on the validity of the dx of people here. Could part of what we are made to feel when people questioin our dx be created out of a movie that left some questions? The special effects were not yet advanced enough nor the acting to portray such a complex illness. The book was well written but for people who are have the mindset that this illness does not exist, and they are out there as we know, leaves enough interpretation to allow them to peck away at it. Maybe some day there will be an irrefutable physical test that will verify what we all know. That it does exist and we all live everyday with the devastation that comes with it.

None of us even asked Inny if she had any experience, including personal, with this illness. I have to include myself in this category. We have always been very welcoming before.

Can we take the post in maybe how it possibly was meant to be; an intellectual endeavor and not an accusation that we don't exist? I know we exist and maybe Inny does too.

Wow, I think this is one of the longest posts I have ever made. Please know I am with every single one of you and feel your hurt at not being validated or believed irl. Just maybe that was not the intent of the post. These are just thoughts about Inny's post.

Take care everyone (((((((((((((((((((hugs to all))))))))))))))))))))

BB

sigh.

what other litmus test is there but the behavioural criteria???

[ShadowsinTheDay]

B_B: How about just ask Inny. .
hey Inny, what was the post really about/. ment to say/ to be taken as? I think you said once, but just so that people are clear on it.)

heres a website that should veledate your Alters, and yourselves. I came across it when I was looking up DID.

http://www.swin.edu.au/corporate/mar.../media/mpd.htm

Hope this helps.

ShadowsinTheDay