[Kiya]

My 10 yr old - who is lovingly referred to as my wolf child - is still not able to communicate immediate "don't touch me" needs with words.
2 or 3 weeks ago, the physical therapist was nearly bit (but I did keep our jaws clamped) when she made sudden movements near my face without telling me.
Today, she was only not bit because WC couldn't have reached her. The pt had my arm extended above my head (i'm on my back) and with her other hand pinched (I'm assuming tried to release the muscle) of the underarm from just above the breast and up. It hurt, tickled, and triggered. WC turned her head sharply, cat-hissed, and then I put my hand over my body, then over the pt's hand (I think she was trying to talk me through it, but all I could hear was white noise in my head), then I felt my fingertips go to nails, and STILL she didn't stop, so WC put pressure on those fingernails. That worked, of course. PT said "Don't claw me!" and I said "Don't do that!" I don't think PT was really mad at us - and she knows we're multiple as of two weeks ago (even tho she noticed long before I told her)- and told us a funny story of her getting her legs waxed, kicking the lady, and the lady saying "There will be no kicking". We both laughed and the moment eased (which could have easily gone into panic). But still.... There's this whole "use words" thing that isn't coming across.
I don't know what to do. Well, I need to remind the pt to TELL me every move she is going to make before she does it, and to stay away from my face (and neck motion range). When things happen fast, the instinct is faster than the frontal cortex word-oriented brain. WC is fast. She's gotten many people to get out of her space quickly. But it's never been a problem with professionals or kids until this year. (I do take an Ativan before each teaching session and have my student sit where I can see her hand motions - so I can be WC's eyes so her teeth don't act first.)
When the pt took me to the same equipment where WC nearly bit her last time and told me to do the same exercise, I told her "Don't poke me!" She said "I won't - I'll stand over here", and stood 4 feet from me. Evidently she remembered all too well what nearly happened last time.
I just don't know what to do :/ When tension comes up I remind WC "use words". But in her mind, I'm the one who is supposed to use words - not her.
I think I did rather well with all the warnings I gave off before we clawed the pt (and we didn't really hurt her, didn't scratch her, just got her attention).
Thoughts?

is there another inside who can help her learn to use words?

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by Kiya

My 10 yr old - who is lovingly referred to as my wolf child - is still not able to communicate immediate "don't touch me" needs with words.
2 or 3 weeks ago, the physical therapist was nearly bit (but I did keep our jaws clamped) when she made sudden movements near my face without telling me.
Today, she was only not bit because WC couldn't have reached her. The pt had my arm extended above my head (i'm on my back) and with her other hand pinched (I'm assuming tried to release the muscle) of the underarm from just above the breast and up. It hurt, tickled, and triggered. WC turned her head sharply, cat-hissed, and then I put my hand over my body, then over the pt's hand (I think she was trying to talk me through it, but all I could hear was white noise in my head), then I felt my fingertips go to nails, and STILL she didn't stop, so WC put pressure on those fingernails. That worked, of course. PT said "Don't claw me!" and I said "Don't do that!" I don't think PT was really mad at us - and she knows we're multiple as of two weeks ago (even tho she noticed long before I told her)- and told us a funny story of her getting her legs waxed, kicking the lady, and the lady saying "There will be no kicking". We both laughed and the moment eased (which could have easily gone into panic). But still.... There's this whole "use words" thing that isn't coming across.
I don't know what to do. Well, I need to remind the pt to TELL me every move she is going to make before she does it, and to stay away from my face (and neck motion range). When things happen fast, the instinct is faster than the frontal cortex word-oriented brain. WC is fast. She's gotten many people to get out of her space quickly. But it's never been a problem with professionals or kids until this year. (I do take an Ativan before each teaching session and have my student sit where I can see her hand motions - so I can be WC's eyes so her teeth don't act first.)
When the pt took me to the same equipment where WC nearly bit her last time and told me to do the same exercise, I told her "Don't poke me!" She said "I won't - I'll stand over here", and stood 4 feet from me. Evidently she remembered all too well what nearly happened last time.
I just don't know what to do :/ When tension comes up I remind WC "use words". But in her mind, I'm the one who is supposed to use words - not her.
I think I did rather well with all the warnings I gave off before we clawed the pt (and we didn't really hurt her, didn't scratch her, just got her attention).
Thoughts?

My old t told me we could the inside world where our parts live. Maybe you can add a class room for WC and have another part teach her how to say words. Maybe she could learn stop, bad, good, words like that. Than she could use one word to let someone know how she is feeling and have them stop what is upsetting her.

[Kiya]

Originally Posted by Claritytoo

My old t told me we could the inside world where our parts live. Maybe you can add a class room for WC and have another part teach her how to say words. Maybe she could learn stop, bad, good, words like that. Than she could use one word to let someone know how she is feeling and have them stop what is upsetting her.

hm! good idea - I can feel her thinking that over.... thanks!

[Kiya]

Originally Posted by invisible butterfly

is there another inside who can help her learn to use words?

only me... 22 usually urges her on to do things, and 3 is totally wild and is right there with 10 ready to do battle... so I guess that's two who don't use words.

[Fuzzybear]

Can she be learned with positive behavior training? Do something good get a reward, do something bad no reward?

We had to train our 8 year old son that way.

[Kiya]

Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2

Can she be learned with positive behavior training? Do something good get a reward, do something bad no reward?

We had to train our 8 year old son that way.

I used to do that- it put us in a pretty bad power struggle. She's more wild than child. But her behaviors used to be really out of control- like destroying my journals and such. I did take away her toy wolf and that got her so angry she cut me really bad. I got so angry I ripped up her wolf calendar pictures (not the best parenting ).
At least things aren't that bad anymore. But not they're being directed outward so it is more imperative to use words than actions.

[amandalouise]

kiya if I remember right your treatment providers (therapist...) knows you have this violent/unpredictable insider... what do they say to do in these situations? have you tried their ideas and then gotten/given feedback so that they can help you and this insider to become more stable?

reason I ask is because treatment providers that we see on a regular basis or per scheduled appointments are usually in a great position for knowing all kinds of therapeutic ways to help insiders.

example maybe the next time you are with this treatment provider you can ask them to ask that non verbal violent alter to draw a picture or point to a picture of what they need. one this was a suggestion my own treatment provider had when I had a non verbal /violent alter...building a communication folder (this is something that treatment providers usually do with autistic clients so many people with DID usually dont know of this therapy technique because its not something that you can find out by googling DID therapy stuff) how you do it you gather newspapers, magazines, paper, pens, crayons, what ever you can think of. and a bound notebook or a hole puncher and metal or plastic ring. then you cut out pictures words and write /draw pictures. then you either glue those into the notebook or on a cut out paper shape. if glued on paper shapes (usually squares work better) after the home made word/picture cards are dried of glue you take duck tape over them to make it stronger and durable. then the non verbal child with autism (or in this case a non verbal insider) can point to the pictures and communicate through the use of the word picture cards.

my suggestion treatment providers have all kinds of ways to deal with non verbal clients so they are in a really good position to tell you all kinds of therapeutic ways to handle non verbal\unpredictable insiders. give your treatment providers a try. if you dont feel comfortable telling them this alter is so out of control again you can just out of curiosity ask them if they have any autistic non verbal clients how do they manage to talk with them. or even deaf/ mute clients. treatment providers have to deal with being able to communicate with the deaf and mute too

[Kiya]

thanks - I did put in a text to my pnurse about WC clawing the pt but I never heard back. In the past, pnurse has only said (about mental health therapists) that they need to respect her; that she only will act out when cornered or not heard, not in balance. "But don't poke a stick at her". That she is kind of feral, but also can be profoundly aware and insightful when in balance. "She needs to be treated with respect... and even a little fear."
But that doesn't help me in the physical therapy situation with a gal who (even tho I like her and she knows I'm multiple) is rather unpredictable, herself. I will have to remind her to tell me each thing she does before she does it, and to not touch me if not strictly necessary.
During a panicky moment, I brought out a small, hand-sized stuffy with lavender in it and had it next to me on the table. The pt took it from me and put it on her computer console. grrrr. we left to go do some exercises and when we returned, I plucked it off the console and gave it back to WC.
So I won't be able to have a yes/no chart with us - but I did think of writing it on my hands (like back in kindergarten) where W can hold up a NO hand.... something to think about.