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#1
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I went to session today. My t started talking about working on getting one of our alters to take control and help with trauma work. What the hell does that mean. Which alter? My alters are the result of trauma and function separately from each other but as a unit. So if we are at work we are one alter but if suddenly something dangerous came up we would be another alter because the alter who works doesn't physically protect us. My entire system functions like this. So how would we be able to have one alter dealing with many situations. I don't know how to do that. I don't have a structure in my mind where I can do that
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![]() Anonymous48690
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![]() krazy_phoenix, TrailRunner14
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#2
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Is there any awareness of trauma in your current memory? Start there, if so, those were relayed from a traumatic alter although you might not have awareness of the separate trauma alter that is say 3 years old, for example you might not have communication from her just yet.....THe earliest as you can remember...Also keep in mind all she means is talking will bring this about it is inevitable, so just make sure you trust her and keep talking about it...Anything around those years you actually remember is a good start...Like when I first started out I created a timeline and just wrote/talk about random memories not all necessarily traumatic.
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![]() krazy_phoenix, TrailRunner14
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#3
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I would be talking with my therapist about something I did not have the answer for. my therapist would have me "ask inside" to see if any of the alters had that information and if they would like to share that with me and my therapist. i would then think the words...ok everyone listening we need to know about this is there anyone listening that can help us? sometimes I would hear the answer in my head, and other times the alter that knew the answer and dealing with that issue was part of their sense of agency they would take over control and talk with my therapist. usually when this situation would come up it was because of my alter Thelma who's sense of agency was sexual issues. Any time there was a problem with sexual issues I would ask inside and thelma because her sense of agency was sexual issues she would take control and help develop a treatment plan to take care of that problem so it wouldnt happen again. Im guessing your therapist thinks this can happen with in you and your system, mine you this is only a guess. only your own treatment provider can answer your questions as to what the treatment provider means and what they want you to do. |
![]() krazy_phoenix
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#4
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When I remember being beaten with straps and sticks and fists I don't associated any feelings to that. It's just stuff I went through. It was more difficult when my mother fought with my older sister with knives, bunching and beating each other. It went on until my sister got sick at 16, I was 10 by then. I recall those memories as traumatic. I was also molested by my father when I was little and again at age 11. He was a scumbag, I don't have emotions connected to being molested when I was little. Just fragmented images of events. At 11 I remember being extremely angry and hurt by his attempt to molest me. For that time I have feelings and memories in the same place. The time line I will try. I still feel like I am in a fog that has not lifted since session. I feel sick.
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![]() Anonymous37827, Anonymous48690
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![]() krazy_phoenix
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#5
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Does anyone know how to get one alter to agree to be the one who will do the trauma work with the other alters. My t says stuff to me as though I know what she is talking about. I do not now how to do trauma work. I am not sure what that really means. I think my t has to be more basic in her explanations of what it is we are doing. the word trauma does not have a defined meaning to me as it relates to feeling. What does trauma feel like? Is it fear, sadness something like that?
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![]() krazy_phoenix
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#6
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Sherri: I really don't know anything about therapy, but trauma is the worst thing in the world....why we are the way we are in the first place. I can recall the images of being beat....but they have no feeling or sound associated to them, an Other holds those memories....it's fragmentation from which alters are born from. An alter has a reason to being, and some are just to hold the traumatic parts of memories. Alters don't always become full blown personalities. Alter's can be frozen in time holding a memory or bits of it while an Other steps up and keeps on living life. Some of these alters are able to "unfreeze" and become it's own personality...so to speak.
We searched out an Other holding trauma feeling one night on our own....and it was scary awful when we found it because I saw bloody red welps and intense screaming pain....we ended up dissociating into a trance and crying. This is hard to do at 70 mph. This is why we dissociate....to bury those memories that we couldn't handle in the first place....but with a T, you get to deal with the memory to get better. I don't envy you, but yet I do. Just let go and let it happen for you are on a road to recovery. As far as I can tell, unless you are co-con, you just have to let it happen, you just aren't going to force it to happen. I closed my eyes and looked into the past into memory bubbles till one opened up and then I was blown away. But with a T, she can guide you. Good luck. ![]() |
![]() krazy_phoenix
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#7
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learning what your problems are and learning how to better handle those problems. example of trauma therapy with me and my therapist... T. you have a fear of rain storms, do you know why? me yes I was abused and had to find my way home during a storm. T. can you tell me more about that? me.....(giving details to the best of my abilities and memories) T ...ok so what kinds of things will help you during the next rain storm., obviously we cant control the weather so you will need to learn how to control you and how you deal with this right? me..right. T so what kinds of things can you do to prepare for the next rain storm? me.. well I know some breathing exercises. T... great lets practice that right now... thats trauma therapy..talking about your trauma related problems and learning how to take care of yourself when experiencing those triggers, thoughts and emotions that are there because of the trauma. as for what does trauma feel like... it feels how ever trauma feels like to you. there is no right or wrong way to feel trauma. |
![]() krazy_phoenix
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#8
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I guess the way I see it is that the dissociation keeps everything separate because the child does not have the ability or the support to bring the events, the feelings, the processing and everything around it together. As it stands now your system does not have the skills to bring it all together. That's why you are still dissociated.
Processing the trauma... or talking about it, examining it, beginning to feel some of those feelings around it... comes from bringing it all together. Of course you don't know how to do it yet. That's why the dissociation is still there. But it can happen, little by little by little and with the help of the T. It is a scary process, and at times it can put the system into a little bit of chaos. Alters that have dealt with only one aspect or one emotion or whatever - or even the host, who has had it all kept away from her - will experience different feelings and memories, things they might not have ever dealt with before. It can be a very scary process, that moves forward a teeny bit and then quickly retreats back into the safety of the known again. it is slow, and long, and painful, and scary, and terrifying, and the hardest thing ever, AND it is amazing and worthwhile and the most incredible thing you will ever do. My biggest advice would be to look after each other. Maybe one doesn't have to take on everything... maybe each of you could do as much to help as you are capable of doing. Sometimes that won't be much. And sometimes it will be everything it needs to be. |
![]() krazy_phoenix
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#9
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Thank you so much for explaining. We don't have a host. There is no 1 person or alter in charge. The alters who function in the world take turns being out depending on the circumstance. When we are home alone with no reason for anyone to be out we talk to each other in our mind. When it starts to get to be too much noise we put on soccer or hockey to distract us and to move the sports alters to the front. that helps and quiets things down. How do I get a host? |
![]() krazy_phoenix
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#10
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![]() krazy_phoenix
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#11
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![]() krazy_phoenix
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#12
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My t said she will help me find someone to help with trauma work. I am glad
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![]() krazy_phoenix
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#13
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that said sometimes in therapy there is a need to continue one conversation from one session to the next (ran out of time or what have you) treatment providers keep session notes and files on their clients here in the USA. if not remembering is an issue for you, you can ask your treatment provider. they will be able to tell you what went on. some treatment providers in the USA also video record sessions, you can also ask for that to be done so that if there ever comes a time when you need to look back on this or that session like my therapist and I have done on occasion you can. |
![]() krazy_phoenix
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#14
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A question for you (but only if you feel like answering, please decline if you wish to for whatever reason. I ask only out of curiosity and you are not compelled to serve it!): If that kind of work constituted the bulk of the trauma therapy for you, was there a part of therapy beforehand in which you initially became aware of the reasons behind your fear of thunderstorms? (ie: How did you become aware of the trauma, and what was that aspect of therapy like?) |
![]() amandalouise, krazy_phoenix
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#15
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![]() amandalouise, krazy_phoenix
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#16
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![]() krazy_phoenix
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#17
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I dont live in the same town nor have the same doctors as I did in childhood but here in the USA when one changes treatment providers its standard on intake to fill out forms and one of those forms gives treatment providers to have access to all medical and sometimes psychological records on that new client. so when A new doctor would receive my past files either through mail or medical\psychological data bases treatment providers now use in the USA they would say I received your file I see that you have had this that and the other in childhood,.... when I entered college I needed to get a high school transcript. I decided to visit that school and see the records they kept on me. they had many documentations of when I came to school bruised and such, they also had many documentations of when I missed school and why, doctors notes you name it. (if you would like to know what went on for you during childhood medically you just need to contact your treatment provider. if they have a computer system they most likely already have access to your medical records just by typing in your social security number. they can tell you what your documented medical history is. dont know your age but treatment providers have been documenting anytime someone comes in with a problem for over 80, 90 years, even my grandmother has a documented medical history of every time she saw her doctors for even the smallest cold or flu. so Im guessing all you need to do it contact your treatment providers and they will be able to track down your medical/psychological and even school records that will also have documentations like this) my point though I did not remember the reason behind my fear there was plenty of proof to be found that answered how, why and when I was abused for my treatment providers. anyone can find out what their childhood was like and what schools, treatment providers and others have documented. also I had what my location called limited or little to no co consciousness. that means I had a little co consciousness with some of my alters and none with others. with people who have co consciousness they can ask inside for answers. one day during therapy I asked inside why was I afraid of rain storms and Rainy was able to share that information with me. what was therapy like ...well it was therapy. therapy is different for everyone. sometimes therapy was \is fun, sometimes its not so fun. The best thing you can do for you is base what you are going through and how therapy feels for you on you, not on me and how it felt for me. dont compare yourself to others. that said the answer is for me it felt normal, it felt like ok so thats why I dont like storms ok. I am a dissociative, that means what I felt were things like numb, indifference, a sense of disconnection. it didnt bother me to find out rain storms scared me because of having to make my way home during a storm. at that point that memory was perceived as being Rainy's, that was her sense of agency to take care of things, emotions you name it that had to do with rain storms. I did not feel anything about learning why I was afraid of rain storms until after Rainy integrated with me. then it hit me because what rainy was, had now become me. I no longer dissociated during storms but even today they scare me, but now that I know how and why I can control my behavior. and yes trauma therapy is a CBT type therapy. you learn about how and why you behave the way you do and learn to control your behavior. |
![]() krazy_phoenix, Luce
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#18
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but before I was integrated who went to therapy, answer.. who ever happened to take control. here in my location dissociation is a reaction to a trigger. here in my location DID includes everyone having their own sense of agency http://forums.psychcentral.com/disso...se-agency.html during therapy anytime I got triggered which ever alters sense of agency was to take care of that trigger or topic would take control and work on that with my therapist. example if we were talking about sex and I got triggered those alters who's sense of agency was sex based they took control, if rain storms was what was triggering me during therapy then rainy took control no I did not have the choice to think or say hey I have therapy in an hour so I think I will switch into Rainy while in therapy. DID doesnt work that way. it affects every aspect of a persons life since very early childhood and isnt a situation of what my location would consider fantasy play (choosing to be someone else), its listed as a dissociative disorder and my location defines dissociation as a reaction (feeling numb spaced out disconnected) when triggered negatively or positively) what that means in relation to me is that any time I felt scared, emotional good or bad I would dissociate. the resulting alter that would handle what was scaring me or causing me to be emotional would take control. there was no choices to be dissociated for me. we do now have a mental disorder here in the USA called mental disorder imposed on self. I do know some people who do choose when and where they appear to switch into their alters with this mental disorder in my location. my suggestion is not to worry so much about trying to control who comes out during therapy, who ever is supposed to take care of what ever is going on will do that, think of it this way DID is a mental disorder that is something a person has since very early childhood. they got you to where you are now as an adult they can handle a therapy session. |
![]() Gr3tta, krazy_phoenix
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#19
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Lucidity, I don't have time to answer you now but will come back to this over the weekend.
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![]() lucidity11
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![]() krazy_phoenix, lucidity11
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#20
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So I guess overall it went something like this: Some self state would be present in therapy and talk (or not talk, if not talking was their job!) and the therapist and other self states would respond / react to that. Then others would respond / react to those responses, then the therapy time would be up and we would leave and respond / react / process until the next therapy session. Rinse and repeat. Over time, believe it or not, we began to find order in amongst the overly reactive chaos. We found patterns and learned from them, and gradually, oh so gradually, began to cooperate and respond in different ways. Rinse and repeat some more. Eventually there emerged some stronger and more stable aspects of self (ahem, moi, for instance!) and we continued to become more cohesive and present. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum, but out of the therapy setting now. |
![]() krazy_phoenix
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#21
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#22
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As for a 'host'... that can refer to any one (or group of) identity state/s that deal with the routine tasks of every day life, that is the non-traumatized parts. Have you ever read about the structural theory of dissociation? According to this model of dissociation the parts of self that deal with every day life are called "apparently normal parts" (ANPs). This is what people often call a 'host'. Some people with DID have one main 'host' (or ANP) and other people have many. For instance we had different ones that dealt with different aspects of life - one who was pretty blank and couldn't actually do a lot of anything; one who was a devoted mother; one who handled study and learning; one who dealt with aspects of work; another who handled social situations etc. So all of them were ANPs... apparently normal parts who dealt with aspects of day to day life. But no, we don't think we had one 'host' or one 'original'. All of us together make us the person that is us - the person that was born. "The theory of Structural Dissociation works off of the assumption that no one is born with an integrated personality. Instead, infants operate based off of a loose collection of different ego states that handle their different needs- feeding, attachment to a caregiver, exploring the world around them. Over time, these ego states naturally integrate into one coherent and cohesive personality, usually by the ages of 6 or 9. However, childhood trauma disrupts this process. Different ego states are left unable to merge with each other due to conflicting needs, traumatic memories, or learned action paths or responses to trauma. One coherent sense of self cannot form when the primary caregivers of the child are inconsistent, loving one moment and abusive the next, preventing healthy attachment from occurring and instead facilitating disorganized attachment...You can read more here: Structural Dissociation and here: http://www.estd.org/conferences/pres...der%20Hart.pdf |
#23
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I know it is a hard concept to consider when all the parts of self are still very separate and needing to maintain those separated identity self-states. I mean - they are all separate for a reason! When we were more split and divided than we are now - when we were first becoming more conscious of each other and learning about each other - it was essential to maintain that separateness for sanity's sake. There was a lot of direct conflict (what I mean is different self states holding opposite feelings / conflicting belief systems / denial of the other's reality) and the dissociation served to keep those conflicts apart. The child me/us couldn't resolve those conflicts and so the dissociation was absolutely necessary. But gradually throughout the course of therapy we were able to work through and resolve those conflicts. In most cases the 'holders' of the conflicts in opposition were able to each find a common, middle ground. (A concrete example would be a part that loved an abuser refusing to believe that any abuse took place, vs a part that only experienced abuse from that person). After the conflict was worked through the 'greater sum of our person' was able to honor and own those two separate realities, and integrate the awareness/emotion of both. (I want to add here also that for us it wasn't necessary to work through all the memories held by each alter, it was only necessary to work through the conflicts that caused/drove the dissociation.) I like the diagram on the first link I listed above - it shows a circle (the whole person) with the dissociative splits inside. When I talk about integrating the awareness and emotion of the individual alters I imagine the walls of those internal splits you can see in the diagram dissolving. Nothing is lost and nothing is altered other than everything that was contained in each split off part is now available to the collective whole. It is only the walls that have gone. It is a really long process, but what emerges over time is a much greater whole than any one of the individual parts could ever be. |
#24
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The following pages are particularly good to read in regards to hosts / cores / types of alters and things like that.
ANP and EP Alter Functions Oh my goodness I have never really explored that site before. It is wonderful. As far as I can tell it is a collaborative effort drawing from some of the top researchers and clinicians from around the world. If anyone has questions about anything DID related I suggest they check it out. |
#25
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Sorry, I should really stop posting... I just found something on the site that explains something for me. I was discussing something on here the other day about one of our alters who was a kind of buffer - able to deal with everyday life experiences but also aware of some abuse and on guard against potential danger. So this part was around a lot to 'carry on as normal' but protect the 'real' every day parts from any awareness of everything turning to custard (abuse).
So I found this, which perfectly explains this kind of alter (and I am posting it because I think others here may well relate to it as well): Mixed Apparently Normal and Emotional Parts In some cases of dissociative identity disorder, some alters may be neither apparently normal nor emotional parts but a combination of both. This phenomenon is often associated with severe childhood trauma and can indicate that the trauma began at a very young age or that the trauma bled over into daily life in such a way as to prevent the normal differentiation between apparently normal and emotional parts. Parts may be more like either apparently normal parts or emotional parts, and some parts may still fit into the neat dichotomy entirely, but such systems might also have more blended parts. For example, there might be traumatic identity states who are mature, are capable of remaining rational and grounded, and have full access to their memories of the traumas that they experienced or have neutral identity states who struggle with intense emotions, both negative and positive PTSD symptoms, and have some degree of memory for what the traumatic identity states experienced (even if this knowledge of their history is inconsistent or mostly intellectual instead of emotional). This could even be thought of as a type of quaternary structural dissociation in which individual parts have their own internal ANP and EP states. Systems with these less defined boundaries are thought to struggle more than more traditional DID systems because their ANP are less able to separate themselves from the trauma and so present as normal. |
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