[amandalouise]

I have asked that my other thread called pretending, the other side to be closed due to the constant confusion over what that thread is about... I decided to make a new thread to hopefully be more clear on what the thread is about...

this thread is about having the kind of DID system where alters .....do not..... use pretending to cover switching so others dont know a switch has happened, they .....do not.... use pretending to be other alters and ....do not pretend ......to be the one that they reside with in. in other words no form of pretending is used.

instead of using pretending switching happens based on who's job, purpose reason for being it is to handle that situation. A Switch is when alters take control to handle\ take care of what the one they reside with in or other alters cant.

example of what I mean....

red is in control because a conversation with friends causes the emotion of anger. then the conversation changes to one of an intimate nature so thelma takes control, then it starts thundering so Rainy takes control to get everyone out of the rain, then red is back in control because theres anger at not being able to follow through with the days plans, the ones who's job it is to make sure everyone gets home ok takes control, at home that person decides to watch a movie the movie contains intimate situations so thelma takes control.

constant seamless switching based on each alters own sense of agency with out having to pretend. with this kind of system there is no need to pretend to be other alters or pretend in order to cover up or protect the system because no one outside the body notices anything is wrong, no one notices a difference, what other people outside the body see is everything is ok and normal.

for those who have the kind of system that does have pretending as a coping tool (alters having to pretend to be each other, alters who have to use pretending to cover a switch, and other forms of pretending for the purpose of protection, see the thread http://forums.psychcentral.com/disso...retending.html

in rare cases some people with DID have a combination of both switching and pretending as a coping and protection for the system. feel free to post here too. just please keep in mind that this thread is focused on the switching rather than the pretending factor.

[elevatedsoul]

i wonder, what if a part is left out of the loop... but does most of the stuff oblivious...
that part may couldnt notice a switch..? due to the fact he's left outside unaware?

would it be considered a pretend if it was that case? other alters pretending, while switching in and out, or maybe they possibly unaware as well? with no one on the inside of a loop to know whats happening? or could it possibly seem like that is the case to the part(s) that is just left out?

i suppose my question is about awareness of such pretending and switching activity, I hope that its understandable

would this be considered something as a dual system?


edit: sorry, im having confusion problems right now

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by elevatedsoul

i wonder, what if a part is left out of the loop... but does most of the stuff oblivious...
that part may couldnt notice a switch..? due to the fact he's left outside unaware?

would it be considered a pretend if it was that case? other alters pretending, while switching in and out, or maybe they possibly unaware as well? with no one on the inside of a loop to know whats happening? or could it possibly seem like that is the case to the part(s) that is just left out?

i suppose my question is about awareness of such pretending and switching activity, I hope that its understandable

would this be considered something as a dual system?

edit: sorry, im having confusion problems right now

Only your treatment providers can answer these questions/ diagnose what kind of system you have, whether its a dual system or not and hows, whys it happens the way it does for you based on what your own individual situation is.

here we are talking about having to constantly switch from one to another to get things done,

one day I and my alters were out rowing my canoe on the lake. the oar (paddle) dropped into the water but the alter in control could not swim and could not reach the oar with out falling in. a seamless switch happened so that another alter could lean over the edge of the canoe and grab the oar after the oar was back in the boat the first alter took control again to continue rowing across the lake.

the first and second alter did not pretend to be another alter to be able to get the oar and the first alter did not pretend to be ok. a switch to another alter happened so that everyone was safe and the job of getting the oar got done.

see what I mean I am not trying to read more into this. I am keeping this simple and on how each others systems ......switch.... appear normal by switching, get things done and protect the system through ....switching.... from one to another.

[Luce]

Well, I understand what you are saying about simple switching without coconsciousness or a greater sense of self awareness, but I still don't think you get the point about the others NOT pretending. It was the insinuation that anything different to what you experience is somehow 'lying' or 'play acting' that was offensive, and that still seems to be the case.

[yagr]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

instead of using pretending switching happens based on who's job, purpose reason for being it is to handle that situation. A Switch is when alters take control to handle\ take care of what the one they reside with in or other alters cant.

Switching happening based on who's job, purpose reason for being it is to handle that situation - and pretending to be another alter is not mutually exclusive. Sonseearae will take control to handle/take care of situations that I can't - but it is not always prudent to make the switch obvious to others. Since she talks differently than I do, uses different word choices, has different mannerisms, etc., it is obvious to anyone paying even the slightest attention that we have switched - unless she takes steps to disguise her arrival.

I may or may not be aware that a switch has occurred. Sometimes I can see what's going on as an observer with varying degrees of distance while other times I have complete dissociative amnesia of the time period where she took over. That she successfully convinced others that she was me does not make my experience pretending.

Originally Posted by amandalouise

in rare cases some people with DID have a combination of both switching and pretending as a coping and protection for the system. feel free to post here too.

Thanks, very generous.

Originally Posted by amandalouise

just please keep in mind that this thread is focused on the switching rather than the pretending factor.

We'll go pretend elsewhere.

[Luce]

I agree with you here, Yagr.

AL, I don't think there is as much divide between those who never 'pretend' and those who sometimes do as there seems to be implied here. In both instances alters switch as needed for the purposes they fulfil. The only difference in my mind is that there are occasions when a coconscious alter (that is one who is aware of their own uniqueness and difference to the host) knowingly hides the fact that they are a separate entity in certain situations once they have been triggered - perhaps by not speaking, or inhibiting some of their own unique behavior or characteristics. I wouldn't even call it 'pretending'. It is simply a normal part of performing their job of protecting the host. They have been triggered out because of the usual reasons they get triggered out (all in order to protect the host) but they best serve the needs of the whole by hiding their own uniqueness in certain situations.

To leap from that (which is just a normal part of a system's functioning really) to separating systems into categories of those who pretend and those who don't (while simultaneously stating that pretending is a form of lying, play acting, or choosing right from wrong) seems unnecessary to me.

Yes, there are probably extremes - those whose alters own their uniqueness to the point of insisting all other people call them by their alter name all of the time (because if an alter knows their own name and self but still answers to the birth name that is just another form of 'pretending' too) and those whose alters consistently try to pass as the host no matter what - but ultimately the world is not made up of black and white but infinite shades of gray.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by yagr

Switching happening based on who's job, purpose reason for being it is to handle that situation - and pretending to be another alter is not mutually exclusive.

for many people it is exclusive. I know many people with DID including my own system before I was integrated that did not have alters that had to pretend in the way your system does. in mine and these others that I know the two issues are mutually exclusive.

none of my alters pretended to be me
none of my alters pretended to be a different alter
none of my alters pretended to have a different sounding voice then what was their own.

each of my alters had their own way of being, their own jobs, purposes. reasons for being, what they did, where they fit in and all these other issues to that are now called sense of agency here in america.

if you read some of the past posts here in the dissociative disorders forum you will find that there are in fact many people with DID who have the kind of system that does not use any form of pretending.

dont get me wrong Im glad you have a versatile system, but many do not.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Luce

Well, I understand what you are saying about simple switching without coconsciousness or a greater sense of self awareness, but I still don't think you get the point about the others NOT pretending. It was the insinuation that anything different to what you experience is somehow 'lying' or 'play acting' that was offensive, and that still seems to be the case.

luce if you reread my post you will see that I am not using the word pretending in the same way that seems to be triggering you. my post is very clear in what I mean and does not accuse anyone of lying or play acting. I have worded my post very clearly to reflect that this thread is on switching not pretending.

suggestion....since this thread seems to be triggering you, you might want to forgo this thread or placing me on ignore so that you will not be triggered by my thread on switching.

[finding_my_way]

in my case, it's not about the others pretending to be me or each other. if things feel off inside, either where an alter is just under the surface so to speak or there with me (i guess also like an internal and not external switch), there is the need to pretend things are ok even though logically no one on the outside looking at me can see any of what is going on inside. it's an attempt for me to try to keep more control and to blend in or something as it all can feel really scary and strange and isn't what i want external people to see because it can make it all a lot worse.

that's just my interpretation on the whole pretending or not aspect of things since mine don't take complete control like other systems, so no one really knows them..though maybe the point of that is so no one does know things are off or they exist. i guess that is for protection of the system to keep things hidden.

[ruh roh]

I can't speak for the OP here, but I think she was just using the term "pretending" as it was used in the other thread, not as an accusation of lying or faking. I don't like the term at all because of the connotations of faking, but it seemed to be used in the other thread in terms of wanting to appear normal and that there was an element of grieving involved. I may have gotten that wrong, but that was my take. I don't relate to any one in the system pretending to be another, or even quite understand it, but that's not any kind of commentary on the value of another system where alters do take on the identity of another alter.

In real life, none of us go around saying our names all that much, so there's no need to announce an identity. There are different names given for various accounts and roles in life, and it can get confusing to know which was used, but no one on the outside questions this. All the time, I explain to the bank, for example that the name on the account is X, but I go by Y (which is a totally different name and not a nickname) and they're like okay, Y, how can I help you?

The younger ones are out when there's a trigger and that's when things often go badly. They don't even know enough to act like another alter. It's a trigger and, bam, they're out. Same with one that's a little older (teen) who handles a lot of security issues or threats. That said, I understand the OP in the other post, that there's a feeling of grieving and loss in all of this because no one is really every known on the outside. But maybe that's true for everyone, not just people with d id.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I can't speak for the OP here, but I think she was just using the term "pretending" as it was used in the other thread, not as an accusation of lying or faking. I don't like the term at all because of the connotations of faking, but it seemed to be used in the other thread in terms of wanting to appear normal and that there was an element of grieving involved. I may have gotten that wrong, but that was my take. I don't relate to any one in the system pretending to be another, or even quite understand it, but that's not any kind of commentary on the value of another system where alters do take on the identity of another alter.

In real life, none of us go around saying our names all that much, so there's no need to announce an identity. There are different names given for various accounts and roles in life, and it can get confusing to know which was used, but no one on the outside questions this. All the time, I explain to the bank, for example that the name on the account is X, but I go by Y (which is a totally different name and not a nickname) and they're like okay, Y, how can I help you?

The younger ones are out when there's a trigger and that's when things often go badly. They don't even know enough to act like another alter. It's a trigger and, bam, they're out. That said, I understand the OP in the other post, that there's a feeling of grieving and loss in all of this because no one is really every known on the outside. But maybe that's true for everyone, not just people with d id.

yes ruh roh you got it exactly.

[kecanoe]

When I switch between adults/teens, usually people do not notice. When one of the kids is primary, other people notice. The host does not like for people to think I am weird, so now that I some times recognize the switch, I pretend.
One of my adults scares and offends people, but they don't realize that it is an alter speaking. That has made things awkward at times.

[Blogjects]

Our system keeps a solid front with L. as front person. Our system is co-conscious & co-present.
We think about several time E. pretended to be L,as L. is the part most people know.
we wouldn't think of it as pretending,mostly as "covering up".
L pretends to be S. near the biological family. This is how much we can give away.