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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#1
frequently on the boards a dissociative disorder comes up called Poly Fragmented DID.
I am curious about this disorder and would like the official diagnostic manual that this appears in. to be clear Im not looking for blogs, twitter, facebook ectera pages... I am looking for actual diagnostic manuals (example DSM 5, ICD10, ...) where this appears and what the actual diagnostic manual information on this disorder is, reason I am interested in finding actual diagnostic manuals with this information is because here in america we do not have this disorder... our dissociative disorders here in america are... DID Dissociative Amnesia Depersonalization / Derealization Disorder Other Specified Dissociative Disorders Unspecified Dissociative Disorders none of which include anything close to something like Poly Fragmented DID that I read about on the boards. I am very interested in learning about this poly fragmented DID from the actual diagnostic manuals not just any website... diagnostic manuals include more information than general websites that any one can make. I googled and find all kinds of ....opinions..... of what this disorder is but in following actual DSM back through the years and then some to DID's beginnings here in america i cant find any actual diagnostic manuals that contain the official diagnostic manual information on this disorder. Im thinking maybe there are other mental health diagnostic manuals than the DSM 5 and ICD10 that may have what they do not... Has anyone ever researched this Poly Fragmented DID to the point of actually finding an actual official diagnostic manual that goes in depth about this? if so I would really like the information on how to find the the diagnostic manual so that I can learn about this disorder through the diagnostic manuals. |
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#2
update...
So far I have not yet located an actual diagnostic manual that contains a disorder labeling of PolyFragmented DID. The DSM 5 and ICD10 are definitely out of the search now. I received an email from the American Psychiatric Association stating this disorder labeling does not appear in either of these two diagnostic manuals for mental health. I am now researching the CCMD (Chinese Classification of Mental Disorders) so far lots of sexual based mental and physical disorders but not PolyFragmented DID. if you know of any other mental health diagnostic manuals please let me know either in this thread or by pm. |
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MickeyCheeky
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Poohbah
Member Since Feb 2017
Location: Logan
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#3
It just means some systems needed more than others to hide the traumatic past problem because more abusers, say several usually has mind control SRA features. Dr Richard Kluft has written some case studies google the name with poly fragmented DID...
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#4
Quote:
I am looking for a book that lists Poly Fragmented DID as a separate mental disorder, its diagnostic criteria, its diagnostic coding, its cultural information and much more. things I am not looking for....tweets, facebook, blogs, case studies, .... I know that the american diagnostic book (DSM 5) and the WHO / ICD all do not have this mental disorder listing I am looking for. Neither does the CCMD, |
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MickeyCheeky
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Grand Member
Member Since Apr 2017
Location: USA
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#5
I have never heard of it being an actual diagnosis but rather just a term that was coined by someone to describe systems with 100+ alters.
Although I have read different definitions, that's the one I have seen most often. I'm not sure where it originated but am assuming it's because the word poly means many. IDK though for sure. |
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amandalouise, MickeyCheeky
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amandalouise, MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#6
Quote:
update on my search ........diagnostic manual I am now looking into is the PDM (Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual) |
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MickeyCheeky
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Poohbah
Member Since Feb 2017
Location: Logan
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#7
Keep us posted, would be a wonderful read.
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MickeyCheeky
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amandalouise, MickeyCheeky, RubyRae
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#8
Good luck, I bet you won’t find it. I find it more as a descriptor in describing one’s system. I used the wording myself in describing my inner world.
What is it’s intended purpose? It depends on the user, I guess. Sometimes I find us using it in such a manner of “life was so bad, we had it really REALLY hard” as a trophy making us the worst of the worst thus resulting in our present state of multipleness. I try deleting those posts when I find them, so immature and very childish full of pride and craving sympathy (sick). Sometimes it’s just used as a lazy way to describe the nature of our mental defect....a fragment producing brain- so don’t ask for names- too many and too hard to care to remember: leave it at that. This would be my take on it. Also would be interesting to read other peoples views and perspectives on it to see if they in some way parallel mine, spoken or unspoken. As a diagnosis...don’t see it. |
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MickeyCheeky
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amandalouise, MickeyCheeky, RubyRae
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
15 885 hugs
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#9
Quote:
that said I have been told often enough by people in various online groups that it is a ......disorder..... and I have read enough posts referring to it as a ........disorder..... my point.......I felt it was now important enough to me to actually research this avenue. To settle my own confusion and possibly others are having the same problem when encountering posts here and everywhere that refer to this being a ......disorder.... but not finding anything about the ......disorder.... besides a bit of research never hurts anyone and I have learned some new things in the process like where the term poly fragmented came from... it came from someone named Putnam who devised a therapy model of measurement of severity of DID, an assessment tool. as for locating more diagnostic manuals I have emails in to a few more american embassy's in other countries like Japan, Germany, India and others who I have not heard back from yet on those locations diagnostic manuals and whether those countries have a ........disorder..... with this name. |
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MickeyCheeky
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Grand Member
Member Since Apr 2017
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#10
I was just thinking about this.
After all your hard work and research and if you find out for sure it's not a diagnosis it's really not going to stop anyone from using that term or claiming it is one. You can educate people but ultimately, what they say and do is up to them. |
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#11
Quote:
its kind of like that bit of a made up song that gets stuck in your head and then you end up spending the day having thoughts about what the heck is that song... I dont stay stuck I get proactive. Im a dissociative and here is a possible dissociative disorder that apparently many on various mental health forums across the internet have told me that I know nothing about and to educate myself about it. so why not take up that challenge. (there are worse challenges out there on the internet right now.) its not hurting me to do this researching and its not taking up any time that I need to focus elsewhere, a few phone calls each morning or night and emails/ faxing the same letter of inquiry to various addresses. Takes all of about an hour of my time each day and its not hurting others in my life that I have chosen to do a research of whether or not Poly Fragmented DID is a disorder somewhere in the world. My family is well equipped to handle two parents that from time to time do research projects, work and such. Other than my wife complaining about the phone bill next month, I see nothing wrong with the fact that I have chosen a research project. Who knows what I find out through this process may end up being used in the future for gosh knows what. we all know about the DSM10 and the ICD, but how many of us actually knew there was a Chinese manual or a Cuban one or a Latin American one and... well you get the picture. this is totally new to me that all these other diagnostic manuals existed. update on manuals.... the GLADP and the GC-3 both on occasion used with the ICD, do not contain any mental disorder called PolyFragmented DID (PFDID) so far this search has gone through all 50 USA states, and 86 countries of the world. most of which use either the DSM5 or the ICD10. |
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Anonymous48690, MickeyCheeky
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Grand Member
Member Since Apr 2017
Location: USA
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#12
Please don't think I was implying that there's anything 'wrong' with what you're doing or that it's hurting you in anyway. I just posted what I was thinking.
I think we all probably get things stuck in our minds and become a bit obsessed at times. I did that recently with an actors name, I knew the movie they were in but couldn't recall the name. I couldnt let it go until I figured it out. So I understand your need to do this. |
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amandalouise, MickeyCheeky
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amandalouise, MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
15 885 hugs
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#13
Quote:
Update... when I checked my emails last night there were some more replies to my inquiries, all of which use the DSM5 or the ICD10 separate or together and do not have a .....disorder....by this name. |
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
15 885 hugs
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#14
update on my research project....
out of 177 American embassy's around the world I have heard from a total of 163.... in each of these various countries there is no............disorder....... called PFDID (Poly Fragmented DID) out of all of these there are just over 100 that use the term "polyfragmented" as a ..............therapy assessment tool as in... tracking how many alters a person has with various mental disorders not just DID but also including DID level of importance of the alters as in which alters came from whom which alters are more affected then others and need to be focused on first for stabilization. types of alters as in whether the alters are dissociative, introjects, EP, ANP, there are about 50 countries that renamed poly fragmented assessment tool to being structural dissociation therapy model and sometimes called Tertiary Structural Dissociation therapy model or secondary structural dissociation therapy models. to be clear these are.......not..... disorders. they are therapy models/ assessment tools... just like CBT is a therapy technique / therapy model and DBT is a therapy technique/ therapy model. Of these 163 American Embassy's around the world about 10-20 of them reported back to me that they sometimes do let their clients believe there is a ....disorder.... called PFDID. it works in their favor of validity of the assessments due to there is other info not found on the internet. in other words they are aware that some of their clients have taken the therapy model and turned it around to meaning a disorder and they use this to their's and their clients treatment advantages. In other words if the client is afraid of the DID diagnosis but not afraid of the wording poly fragmented, they use the term poly fragmented as an ice breaker. if some of their clients want to believe its a ......disorder.... and are following not fighting treatment plans whats it hurting...... (this last one I felt was a bit deceptive and misleading in my opinion, kind of angered me, but what can you do right, if I was those clients I would not want my treatment providers to agree i have a non existent ......disorder....... just to get my compliance with treatment options.) and that ends this research project. Thank you all for tolerating my need to know and researching this avenue. by the way if there are any out there doing their field training, writing their dissertations, thesis, and essays for publication requirements this would be a great one to do it on, there is a wealth of information on the .... therapy model / assessment tool.........on the internet., google also has a list of embassy's around the world that you can find to make your own inquiries to. |
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MickeyCheeky
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Poohbah
Member Since Feb 2017
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#15
I'm glad I saw this because I heard something on the radio a few months back with wide spread changes in the DSM again!!........
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MickeyCheeky
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amandalouise, MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#16
Quote:
in short what happens is the new one comes out then the APA gets feedback and surveys done and opens discussions on how and what is confusing of the present one and how to make it better for the next update. then they go through with writing the proposals of what they want to make changes to. right now the proposals are addressing the ICD10 and where it doesnt quite match the DSM5, proposed changes to categories like hallucinations, adjustment disorders and other trauma and stress related disorders. Dissociative disorders is .......not at the moment...... being looked at for this process of making changes to or adding to or removing from the dsm. you can read more about this process on the DSM5 at the american psychatric associations website. |
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#17
Quote:
if so this is not a wide spread (whole book) changes. every so often the American Psychiatric Association puts out a short Supplemental Update on their website that only treatment providers have access to. These updates are in proposal form where they list the update then its open for comments, so that people can talk about that .........proposed ........ change. the comments area is open only for a very short time. sometimes these ......proposed ...... changes are authorized to be put in use right away, other times the proposal says not to use that proposed change right away, that its still being looked into. sometimes after the comments time has expired the listing of Supplemental Update proposals go public, people who find them assume they are making a new DSM book that is going to take away this diagnosis or change that and guess what we got a new DSM book coming out soon rumors. the radio picks up on these and does a story on them. from my understanding the Supplemental Updates happen every few months to keep the DSM5 up to date think of it like your computer or laptop.. windows does updates to keep your computer and laptop functioning the way it should. the DSM5 gets its updating every few months on this or that mental disorder, wording, definitions, coding and so on. my opinion is that this updating system they have helps also in the way intended or unintended I have no idea but it has been known to happen to friends and family... helps treatment providers to know when someone is researching and when someone isnt. they may find something online that has been removed in the latest update. or they dont know about this or that proposed additional defining thing...let me tell you it caused quite a problem for one of my siblings that was trying to use online wording instead of their own recently and saying something happened to them that was not. this sibling got diagnosed with something they were not intending to get diagnosed with. anyway Im heading off topic... the DSM5 wont have its whole book changes for about 10-15 years (publication wise) but it does go through periodic supplemental proposal updating process that is not usually accessible to just anyone until after a certain time period. then it seems like everyone comes out of the woodwork to discuss the proposals including radio and news outlets. Last edited by amandalouise; Apr 04, 2018 at 12:22 PM.. Reason: spelling |
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#18
in a recent thread someone asked for iinput on those who do not believe in poly fragmented DID. its not that we dont believe in it. its that times have changed, definitions and diagnostics changed around the world back in may 2013 and it continues to change. poly fragmented is no longer referred to as a dissociative disorder. its gone back to being what it originally began as... a therapy tool for treating many different mental disorders.
here in my own location the therapy model known as structural dissociation therapy model (other call it poly fragmented) is used to treat and explain any disorder most often depression, borderline personality disorder and others. bumping up for others that are looking for this information |
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MickeyCheeky
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2008
Location: Illinois, USA
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#19
This is a link to an article in the Boston Globe that raises the question about using only DSM criteria for diagnosis. It suggests that the DSM criteria are mostly based on white western thought and culture, and that the same symptom (in this article a man who describes feeling like there are bugs crawling under his skin) could be diagnosed as anxiety or schizophrenia/psychosis.
How culture shapes your mind — and your mental illness - The Boston Globe Culture, it says, can make a huge difference in diagnosis: and it defines culture differences as being not just skin color or country of origin, but also things such as sexual orientation, age, profession, technological immersion and some other things. Like others on these lists, my Ts have used different diagnostic codes for billing insurance and perhaps in their notes. All of them have had access to my full psych evaluation but they don't use the same codes. I think I have seen CPTSD (which I think isn't listed in DSM anymore, but it is still on my insurance billing), Alcoholism (I've been sober over 30 years), Depression, including treatment resistant and MDD, Mixed personality disorder, and DID. I think there are some others as well. I say this because mental health diagnosis is tricky, people often disagree, and symptoms overlap quite a bit in the DSM-V. And then there is that the DSM does change, disorders are eliminated and added with each revision. So I don't think that it is completely accurate. |
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MickeyCheeky
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MickeyCheeky
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Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,153
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#20
Quote:
Example the DSM lists disorders called DID. PTSD, Bipolar Disorder...... and other recognized mental disorders. I was looking for ..............diagnostic manuals............. that stated there was a .............mental disorder............. called PFDID. after contacting american embassy's around the world I discovered there is no..............mental disorder........ called PFDID. if you can find somewhere in the world an ...........actual diagnostic manual that states there is a ..............Mental Disorder......;... called PFDID that I may have missed (! have contacted over 180 countries vs the american embassy's around the world) please post it here. again not interested in articles, blog posts, twitter and such. only looking for the mental disorder PFDID and its diagnostic criteria. |
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