[abusedtoy]

I am wondering why splitting consciousness is only possible during early childhood chronic trauma, but not beyond the age of 5?

[Amyjay]

We are not born with a sense of self. A baby has no conscious knowledge of its own being. We develop a sense of self and identity in the first six years of life by integrating our perception our experiences and our self knowledge into a single "sense of self". The simplest way to put it I think is that trauma in the first six years of life breaks the self before it has even formed.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by abusedtoy

I am wondering why splitting consciousness is only possible during early childhood chronic trauma, but not beyond the age of 5?

yes this is hard to understand.... this may help its what my own therapist explained to me...

watch adults do they have ability to think like very young child.... most not because they have life experiences and coping tools that determine what they think and do...

a childs mind doesnt have all the limits and coping tools that an adult has... an adult when they feel like they are being abused can walk away from that bully or abuser. a child doest have that freedom to walk away from their abuser. an adult can go to the police, a child cant go to the police they have to go to their parents or sometimes their abuser. the only thing a very young child has to help them escape their abuse is their own minds natural dissociation.

they dont set out to split their mind (they dont say ok that hurt Im going to dissocciate into two people now so that the pain doesnt hurt me anymore.)

it happens on an unconscious level where the child is in so much emotional and physical pain beyond what their very young brain can handle. their brain naturally protects itself through the natural normal dissociation process where it shuts off the childs physical and emotional feelings, and senses to what is happening. (that normal dissociation symptom of numbing out, spacing out) over time and as the abuse intensifies so does the brains reactions to unconsciously protecting that child. until one day the abuse is so physically and emotionally severe that the brains natural dissociation response is forgetting beyond normal forgetfulness. blocking things out beyond the nornal blocking things out.

then my therapist had me do an experiment...

take a food that makes you gag.
the first day take that food and just barely touch it with your tongue
the next day do the same thing for just a bit longer
the next do the same thing for just a bit longer.

after you can hold that offending food on your tongue. bite into it (dont take the bite off just barely bite into it....

the process goes on and on. eventually that offending food can be eaten without the gag reaction. doesnt mean you like it just that your brain has learned to protect you from it emotionally and physically. it desensitized you from it.

well the kind of extreme trauma that it takes to create DID is the kind that most adults can handle but children cant. Adults can handle adult stuff, Childrens brains were not meant to handle adult situations. so like that offending food the brain protected the child (took care of what the child could not handle).

made sense to me when my treatment provider explained it to me.

[Fuzzybear]

[tikobird]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

We are not born with a sense of self. A baby has no conscious knowledge of its own being. We develop a sense of self and identity in the first six years of life by integrating our perception our experiences and our self knowledge into a single "sense of self". The simplest way to put it I think is that trauma in the first six years of life breaks the self before it has even formed.

I grew up in a very dysfunctional alcoholic home with little to no attention and an uncle taking me in the bathroom wanting me to do sexual things to him. I was only about four. I never understood what he meant. It happened about 3-4 times. I had no self esteem and thought I was different from others since the beginning of elementary school. I'm just getting some real help now. I've had DP since 13 until now and I'm 60.

[Calla lily12]

Originally Posted by abusedtoy

I am wondering why splitting consciousness is only possible during early childhood chronic trauma, but not beyond the age of 5?

HHmmm I was told differently. The ego can be damaged at any age, right? So doesn't it stand to reason that if trauma occurs at an older age, the same can happen.?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Calla lily12

HHmmm I was told differently. The ego can be damaged at any age, right? So doesn't it stand to reason that if trauma occurs at an older age, the same can happen.?

Calla lily.... here in america we have many mental and physical health problems that do have "ages" / phases of life where its called "age of onset."

with dissociation disorders in ........general...... it can happen any time

but the dissociative disorder called DID age of onset (when it begins/ when the various parts/ functions/ abilities of the brain are not set in stone so to speak) is before the age of 5.

think of it kind of like a person goes through puberty related mental health issues in this age bracket, a person goes through menopausal related mental health issues at this age bracket.

in the USA ......DID..... has an age bracket too.

my point there are many mental disorders now since 2013 that are recognized as being something that happens to very young children, begins in very early before 5 yr old children. some of these problems if left untreated end up being with that child as they grow up and into adulthood. some done.

[Calla lily12]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

Calla lily.... here in america we have many mental and physical health problems that do have "ages" / phases of life where its called "age of onset."

with dissociation disorders in ........general...... it can happen any time

but the dissociative disorder called DID age of onset (when it begins/ when the various parts/ functions/ abilities of the brain are not set in stone so to speak) is before the age of 5.

think of it kind of like a person goes through puberty related mental health issues in this age bracket, a person goes through menopausal related mental health issues at this age bracket.

in the USA ......DID..... has an age bracket too.

my point there are many mental disorders now since 2013 that are recognized as being something that happens to very young children, begins in very early before 5 yr old children. some of these problems if left untreated end up being with that child as they grow up and into adulthood. some done.

I'm in the US, also amandalouise. I'm not sure I understand because I was told the ego can be damaged and therefore "split" at any age during trauma.

I wonder if some peope who've gone through trauma, whose various parts of the brain are never really set in stone, can experience "More DID" i/e more dissocation, at any age?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Calla lily12

I'm in the US, also amandalouise. I'm not sure I understand because I was told the ego can be damaged and therefore "split" at any age during trauma.

I wonder if some peope who've gone through trauma, whose various parts of the brain are never really set in stone, can experience "More DID" i/e more dissocation, at any age?

not according to the newer standards. by that I mean there is no such thing as more DID or a lesser DID.

to understand this you will need a bit of information....

dissociation here in america is now just a normal response to something....

take a different thing... anger. you know how when someone says or does something you dont like it makes you feel angry.

being dissociated is just another state of mind like anger, an emotion. anyone at any age can now say for example I feel dissociated. that means they are feeling numb, emotionless, or in slang tems a space cadet. kind of foggy, dream like, floaty... there are many words that people use for this same feeling called dissociating, / dissociated.

Adults sometimes normally feel dissociated
teens sometimes normally feel dissociated
children of all ages sometimes on a normal level feel dissociated.

now your other word ego....
a persons ego is just how they think about their self. example I think highly of myself. when I look in a mirror I like what I see, I have self esteem and self worth. when I think of myself as a person I think I am a pretty good person, Im a good mother, wife, daughter, ...all those thoughts about myself. thats what todays psychological definition of ego is.

yes a person of any age can have a damaged ego by today's standards of the word. anyone who feels they are not a good person, hates their self, has low self esteem and self worth is considered to have a damaged ego.

A person doesnt ..............have................. to have a damaged ego to have DID.

But many with DID do have a damaged ego (how and what they think of their self, low self esteem, low self worth, ....)

I know its confusing for you but I cant go further into this with out getting too technical for the boards sorry. my suggestion is contact your treatment providers. they will explain to you the "mechanics" of Dissociation and DID (what actually happens to created the disorder)

[Michael W. Harris]

Originally Posted by Calla lily12

HHmmm I was told differently. The ego can be damaged at any age, right? So doesn't it stand to reason that if trauma occurs at an older age, the same can happen.?

Dissociation is a hidden mental illness in most cases because the dysfunctional family promotes, through ignorance, the mental illness. In my case it was ignorance not maliciousness. Except, my brother's abuse was maliciousness. My parents had no parenting skills and my Mom actually had very bad ideas in her head about parenting toddlers. She never considered her toddler's emotional and psychological welfare!!! So all her children were emotionally traumatized by the age of three. I got it worse because my Brother was allowed to abuse me to vent his problems. Mom believed that sibling bullying or hazing was normal.

But, if you develop a dissociative disorder late in life it only means that the mental illness had been hidden during your childhood. The child cannot deal with the insanity of the dysfunctional family. The family that traumatizes a toddler, as in my case, has no empathy for the toddler's feelings and emotions. Also dysfunctional families lack any sane communication skills. They generally do not communicate with the child enough to recognize memory problems or amnesia which is occurring all throughout childhood.

You do not develop a dissociative disorder late in life. It just was hidden until something triggered the symptoms to become obvious.

[Michael W. Harris]

Originally Posted by Michael W. Harris

Dissociation is a hidden mental illness in most cases because the dysfunctional family promotes, through ignorance, the mental illness. In my case it was ignorance not maliciousness. Except, my brother's abuse was maliciousness. My parents had no parenting skills and my Mom actually had very bad ideas in her head about parenting toddlers. She never considered her toddler's emotional and psychological welfare!!! So all her children were emotionally traumatized by the age of three. I got it worse because my Brother was allowed to abuse me to vent his problems. Mom believed that sibling bullying or hazing was normal.

But, if you develop a dissociative disorder late in life it only means that the mental illness had been hidden during your childhood. The child cannot deal with the insanity of the dysfunctional family. The family that traumatizes a toddler, as in my case, has no empathy for the toddler's feelings and emotions. Also dysfunctional families lack any sane communication skills. They generally do not communicate with the child enough to recognize memory problems or amnesia which is occurring all throughout childhood.

You do not develop a dissociative disorder late in life. It just was hidden until something triggered the symptoms to become obvious.

I would like to add to this post. I want to expound on the statement, "The child cannot deal with the dysfunctional family."

Why?? Because it does not matter how the child behaves! As in my case, the child will be mistreated regardless of behavior. The child will be isolated within the family regardless of behavior. The response of the mentally ill parents will never be sane. The abuse of the sick brother was never sane. The older sibling develops jealousy of the new born. Bad parenting pushes that illogical reaction to overt hatred of the sibling. There was never a rational reason for the sick brother to abuse his younger brother! But, the brother still justifies his behavior with his sick logic.

The child, as in my case, has no sane rational adult to help him understand. The mind gets broken during the toddler years and never heals completely because the insanity never stops. The communication never gets better so the child does not know that he/she is having memory problems and blips of amnesia from switching in and out of this state of shock that he/she was put into as a toddler.

[mostlylurking]

Originally Posted by abusedtoy

I am wondering why splitting consciousness is only possible during early childhood chronic trauma, but not beyond the age of 5?

I think the creation of a new, split off consciousness is a coping skill the brain can acquire in early childhood when the brain is malleable. If this ability to divide the consciousness is not learned before the age of about 5 or so, it can no longer be learned because the brain / mind is not flexible enough.

However, once the brain has learned how to use a partitioning of the consciousness like this, it retains that ability. So if a person is already multiple (has DID / multiple personalities) and they suffer a severe trauma at age 13 or 23 or 33, a new division and new consciousness may come into being.

A new consciousness can even come into being in the absence of a specific trauma, in a person who is already multiple. But none of this happens unless it began with severe and/or chronic trauma in very early years. This is just my personal understanding, but I hope it helps.

[Michael W. Harris]

Originally Posted by mostlylurking

I think the creation of a new, split off consciousness is a coping skill the brain can acquire in early childhood when the brain is malleable. If this ability to divide the consciousness is not learned before the age of about 5 or so, it can no longer be learned because the brain / mind is not flexible enough.

However, once the brain has learned how to use a partitioning of the consciousness like this, it retains that ability. So if a person is already multiple (has DID / multiple personalities) and they suffer a severe trauma at age 13 or 23 or 33, a new division and new consciousness may come into being.

A new consciousness can even come into being in the absence of a specific trauma, in a person who is already multiple. But none of this happens unless it began with severe and/or chronic trauma in very early years. This is just my personal understanding, but I hope it helps.

I agree with what you are saying somewhat. But I disagree that this phenomena is a coping skill that the brain "learns"! Dissociative disorder is a "result" of trauma/abuse during early childhood. The brain is irreparably damaged from this trauma/abuse until professional help is obtained. How can I explain this? If you get boiling water/coffee/something spilt on you, you body does not learn how to blister. The blister is simply the physical result of having a boiling fluid touch your skin. That is the same with mental damage.

We learn reading, writing and arithmetic. But if someone jumps out of a closet unexpectedly and screams "boo", our reaction is not learned it simply is a reaction/result of being scared Sh**less.

[Calla lily12]

Originally Posted by mostlylurking

I think the creation of a new, split off consciousness is a coping skill the brain can acquire in early childhood when the brain is malleable. If this ability to divide the consciousness is not learned before the age of about 5 or so, it can no longer be learned because the brain / mind is not flexible enough.

However, once the brain has learned how to use a partitioning of the consciousness like this, it retains that ability. So if a person is already multiple (has DID / multiple personalities) and they suffer a severe trauma at age 13 or 23 or 33, a new division and new consciousness may come into being.

A new consciousness can even come into being in the absence of a specific trauma, in a person who is already multiple. But none of this happens unless it began with severe and/or chronic trauma in very early years. This is just my personal understanding, but I hope it helps.

I still don't believe that splitting consciousness only happens in a young child.(As I stated before) My T agrees with me.
Maybe it isn't exactly splitting but the mind of a person raised with trauma has a tendency to be able to "partition" various traumatic (to them) instances , whenever they occur.
I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but I'm trying.....