Tough love.

I don’t believe tough love exists....

Yeah it’s not as straight forward as it seems.

Some people make the most vile comments about others but it all covered by fake syrupy rainbows and unicorns. I personally usually see right through that. Sometimes people don’t see it and could tricked by fake “niceness”.

It really takes awhile to get to know the person like that. I know someone who starts and end every phrase with “G-d bless you and may G-ds blessing come upon you and may G-da goodness make your life a bliss etc etc” pretty much utter cliche nonsense. In reality she causes ton of suffering to people and eventually people get to know her and stir away.

She recently contacted someone who is estranged from her to tell her that family and friends all abandoned her and only strangers are willing to associate with her. All of us knew right away it’s because strangers buy fake “bless/shmess and and etc” bit as soon as they know her they stir away.

Sometimes tough love might be better than fake nonsense. At least tough live implies “love” while “fake ness” implies nothing but fake ness. Sure fake people suffer from something that causes them to be this way but it’s their responsibility to seek help. It’s not other people’s responsibility to figure them out. So yeah tough live versus fake support, hard to tell what’s what and which one is worse.

So for me it all boils to sincerity. How sincere are people in their words and actions and it takes awhile (or good insight) to get to know people where they coming from with their support and if it’s sincere etc

I have had “experiences” with people very similar to what you’re describing here.

Fake “niceness” indeed can be “worse” than “tough love” .... imo....

I would say my father is a good example of tough love, especially regarding things that I tried hard to get his approval in when I was younger. I really remember the times where I would work all day to clean room and organize but if the tops of my dressers were still unorganized at the end of the day I remember him always saying "wow good job but you still need to do something about this" and he never just said good job. This has left me feeling like I'll never be good enough because trying my best wasn't good enough for him. And I still always feel like I have to prove to him that my decisions were valid because of this or that. So in this case I would believe tough love wasn't helpful for someone that already had motivational issues.

There is no such thing as tough love. Tough and love cannot be used in the same sentence. You cannot hurt someone and tell them you did that out of love. My father has always said he criticized me, hit me, and yelled at me only because he "loved me" and for my own sake. To succeed in life. He created a fragile and immature person instead with social anxiety and depression issues, and now as grown up as a failure in every aspect of life. I believe that only love and respect can make people change and make them better. Punishing people in the of hope they become better is an illusion. But it's easier than being patient and loving unconditionally. I identify as an atheist/agnostic now, but St. Paul verses on love are things to recall.

Agree.

Also I think people that don't really know eachother well need to be extra careful. People usually go by what they can do and think it is the same for everyone else.

I remember when I was at my worst, and online people really helped, basically they helped me tread water until I could find a doctor to help me. It took ages. Once in a while some asshat showed up and told me that I just chose to feel bad and they had chosen to feel good so if they can, everyone else can. That was really discouraging.

Of course it is OK to warn a person not to do something that could be harmful. As long as it is cuz you really want to give this advice, and not because you want to shut someone up.

Some people think mentally-ill people who seek validation and support are playing victims and lazy, and their support is feeding this "victim mentality". These people probably have never suffered from any mental illness or forgot how it is like , and they don't know how crippling it can be (anymore).

Yea. My counselor was like that because when she went to school way back they learned that depression is a made up thing not a real illness that we create so we can get people to cater to us. She told me only schizophrenics and bipolar people have real mental illness.

Fact is I never really wanted to waste people's time, but I survived because people encouraged me to.

My counselor thought if I was kicked off welfare and had to work full time, I would snap out of it. She yelled at me because she said my BFF enabled me in my bad habits by giving me food so I wouldn't starve.

Since then I understand that I really don't understand much about what other people go through... but I try not to think they aren't trying enough...

Of course sometimes I don't have patience, which is basically no one's fault, and sometimes I say the wrong things, but at least I'm not saying my ignorance is knowledge.

I think it is also plausible that some people who think like that also suffered from mental illness, found a solution, way of coping, or perspective which was helpful to them, then expect others to follow suit. Failing to realize that people deal with their own issues differently, and perhaps what worked for them might not work for the other person they are dishing "tough" love to.

Very likely, I've bumped into those.

I know I already posted in this thread but I was reading it over and thinking. I think "honest love" with compassion exists. It means supportively sharing what you believe to be the case (when asked), not pushing your views on someone and realizing when to step away. Stepping away can be a way for letting natural consequences happen-in the case of my daughter who is an addict we had to let her go until she came home asking for help. But "tough love" is more like asshole love. Its self righteous and self serving and more focused on the person giving the tough love being "right" rather than having concern for the welfare of the person receiving the tough love.

Tough love....it's such a selfish, mean way to treat another person. To me, it seems there are more creative options.

I so agree with this. Tough love, IMO, is a guise for abuse. It's completely different than holding to boundaries, or enforcing house rules, or enforcing consequences for disobeying parental rules. When I truly think of people who did what others refer to as "tough love" I see parents who it really hurt themselves to enforce a boundary with a child. As another person who suffered a lot of abuse under the guise of tough love, including a parent thinking that tough love would actually cure my medical condition, I find it really upsetting on here when people claim to be using "tough love." You don't love me, so no, it's not tough love. And I don't mind directness, and even, when called for, bluntness. What I dislike is people who claim to "just be blunt" when it's really a guise for allowing themselves to speak without thinking, regardless of considering what they are saying, to whom, and if it's truly helpful to the person they are saying it to, or if it's just their insatiable urge to say what they have to say regardless of it actually being compassionate or helpful. No one is perfect, and we all misspeak from time to time, but some people, it's their M.O.

Lol, I loved this. Including "asshole love".

late to this thread..

my own views on this is that tough love is just another word for setting boundaries and sticking to them. I use tough love with my children. we don't beat on them, spank them nor set unrealistic goals or expectations. two are 11 years old. they are expected to have chores to do, they keep their own rooms picked up and organized in a way that is sanitary and not a hazard, windows and doors are not blocked. They understand that if they have friends over and take food into their bedrooms the expectation is to bring back down to the kitchen any left overs and dishes other wise the tough love kicks in of no more food and beverages in the bedrooms for a month and their allowance helps pay for the exterminators. this may seem unreasonable to others but when you have had to deal with exterminators time and time again for ants and other insects, there comes a time for tough love and teaching the children to have self worth, self respect and responsibility. we feel the 11 years olds are quite capable of having friends over and being responsible for their own actions and natural consequences that come with that. we parent the younger two also with tough love (expectations, boundaries, rules and natural consequences)

tough love does not mean a person is abusive. it means a person has a set of expectations for their self and others, they set their boundaries and rules and stick by them,

look at psych central... it has expectations, it has rules and boundaries and it has consequences for breaking those rules and boundaries. most times discussions can happen when these are broken but over all there is that tough love factor that must be stuck to in order for this site to be safe and what its meant to be for.

if psych central did not factor in tough love this site would be full of riff raff spammers, members breaking the rules every which way, flaming and attacking each other, the forum boards would not be organized in a way that ensures thousands upon thousands of members and visitors can find what they are looking for.

tough love is everywhere. some people don't like rules and boundaries and others do. but tough love is right there in every part of life when ever anyone sets their limits/ boundaries and rules they are practicing and using tough love.

I bet anyone who posted in this thread can find areas of their own lives where they have used and practiced tough love, from having rules for their personal items, how they live, who they have and don't have in their lives, what and how they choose to make their meals, rules for their self and others, expectations....

my opinion is tough love is everywhere and everyone does it. just a fancy title for setting boundaries and expectations in ones lives.