Empathy

What i'd like to know is whats it like being highly empathetic? Advantages? Disadvantages? And overall, does it benefit you more often than not?

Feel free to add additional thoughts, articles, etc on the subject of empathy unrelated to my questions. Consider this the all encompassing empathy discussion thread.

Being empathetic means to feel other people's feelings and often take them on as your own.

For example, attending my Mood Disorder Support Group can be at times painful as I will sense and feel other people's duress. I take these feelings home with me instead of leaving them at the door. Even with my boyfriend's efforts to debrief and fragmentize my upset or even painful feelings do not result in pulling me out of it. The feelings sometimes linger for days - often until a new set of feelings about yet someone else's difficulties take their place.

Intentionally? Can you leave them at the door if you want to? Can you shut them out entirely? What do you do with all these emotions?

How often do you feel nothing?

Empathy is definitely not about feeling nothing. That is something more in the avenue of sociopathic thinking. On the contrary empathy is about feeling a great deal about other people - their situations and their feelings. To be empathetic is to feel - and it is other people's joy and duress that one feels.

No, to feel another's emotional pain for instance is not intentional. Empathy cannot be controlled. One cannot choose this situation or that situation to feel for. It just happens uncontrollably. Neither can one simply shut off the feelings. Sometimes they fester and take on greater significance than one's own. Another common trait about empathy is the unfaultering need to make things better. Empathy then often occurs side by side the emotion of frustration and sometimes even anger.

Empathy I am told is admirable. No, I would not wish this upon my fellow man. While having a great understanding of people and there feelings can be advantageous, feeling their emotional agony definitely isn't.

my dog is a therapy dog. he feels the weight of the world. if you are upset because of a death, sickness..he is there for you. because he is there, I am there. his reaction makes me slow down and be aware of what is around me. which is good.

when I was working my job required me to remain focused and not get involved at times in people's emotions but to deal with the situation at hand. so I can react that way as well when the situation requires it to be...

it is nice to have the option of both responses now...the dog has opened up a whole new level for me....it's easy to see a child crying and focus on that but with him I am in touch with everything...things I would not even notice before, and that is ok..it's good to be a decent person and help others.

Empathy is still a bit of a mystery to me. What I do know is that it's a continuum...people have varying degrees of it. It's also not a case of you either have it or you don't....empathy can be learned....the research supports that. Though the person of course would need to have a desire and openness to learning empathy.

I fall higher on the empathy scale. That can be difficult for me but great for others around me. My work has required a great deal of empathy. I have struggled with 'negative empathy' quite a lot. I think that's the main problem for people who consider themselves "empaths" (though I don't label myself that way)....they have lost the line between empathy and negative empathy.
Negative Empathy / Psychology Today
Negative Empathy | Psychology Today

I also think it's important to point out that empathy, or a higher level of empathy, doesn't make someone "better than" others. It doesn't mean that the person is perfect by any means. We all have our flaws. Sometimes I hear people describe themselves as basically saint-like based on "empathy" and that's a red flag. They are very quick to point out the flaws of others and to avoid any self-analysis. I wouldn't call that empathy though it is a story they are telling themselves.

Similarly, someone with less empathy isn't "bad" or wrong. Someone I love very much is quite a bit lower on the empathy scale from me. But he is a wonderful person. And loving. There are just certain things he cannot relate well to if that makes sense. Or he'll need it broken down very explicitly as to how to respond in a given scenario.

Theoretical, you asked about feeling nothing. Great Q. I often feel empty or numb. My whole life. I am told it is because I have the capacity to feel emotions deeply (and h/o trauma) that my mind starts to numb out a while to protect me. I don't know if I believe that but it's what I was told

And yes, we can of course keep empathy in check provided that we want to. Dr. Gabor Mate has much to say on that subject. He noticed in his research and clinical practice that people who put others' needs before their own are much more likely to get serious diseases or to die at a younger age. He wrote an interesting book: 'When the Body Says No.'

The Need For Authenticity - Gabor Mate


Society tends to skew ideas in very reductive ways. There is actually a middle ground between callous individualism and negative empathy or putting everyone else before yourself. Though for many of us, that's not as easy place to find. And yet, well worth the effort! That's one of my new goals...to put myself first.

I think empathy can mean a few things. I think if you have had an experience that someone else has had you can almost feel the way they do, good or bad. I think like wishful said you can take on these feelings as your own which is where being mindful comes into play. Feelings are not facts. Feeling someone else's pain or joy does not mean it is our own. Which is why its important to try and remain objective if you can. I think its a true skill when you can feel empathy and not make those feelings your own personal feelings. I am much better with this. For example: My struggles with alcoholism have made me very empathetic to other addicts but not to the point where their feelings or actions control my feelings. This is why I am dedicated to helping other addicts. In the past before I got sober I would be involved in too much of other people's business and that was a problem. Many times it wasn't my business. Its hard to tell the difference sometimes. Empathy is a double edged sword sometimes. You feel these feelings and its hard not to take them on. When I find myself taking them on I need to take a step back and really decide if its worth it for me to be that invested. Its almost like a skill, learning when to let things go. It is hard being very empathetic though because whether you like it or not sometimes these feelings affect you.

It feels like absorbing other people's pain. It's overwhelming, which is why I like being alone or in small groups. I've had to learn to consciously put up a shield to keep myself protected. That is the downside.

The upside is that I haven't turned into a monster like my abusers. Being highly empathetic has kept me sane.

Question:

are there any folks on PC who are higher on the empathy scale who did NOT experience childhood trauma or abuse?

One idea is that children growing up in abusive homes become acutely aware of other people's emotional states because it helps them to survive and avoid triggering abusive family members. Does that ring true for anyone?

Anyone here who did NOT grow up that way but still feels very high on the empathy scale?

I’d not be able to do what I do for a living if I wasn’t empathic person, it would be just very hard. Being able to to feel other people’s pain and struggles makes it possible for me to help others. No I can’t leave my feelings at the door when I leave work. It’s forever with me.

At the same time I am very solution oriented. I helped a lot of people in life in a very serious ways because I provided practical help and suggestions of actual solutions and it made a difference. I don’t mope and don’t offer empty fake words. I’ve met some people who claimed to be “empath” yet they were the most passive aggressive and mean full of themselves manipulators.

So it could be tricky. For example (very hypothetical ) the person is bleeding. Two people witness it. One goes for stopping blood, getting ambulance etc. Someone else starts moping and sending unicorns and rainbows making themselves feel important. Both perhaps feel empathy. But what people do with it what matters.

You make a very great case. You are right, it makes someone neither better nor worse for their level of empathy.... Well maybe. In my own opinion I am not sure how someone could lack any empathy or feeling at all. Is this not part of our human condition? I would suggest that someone who feels nothing and is ambivalent to the situations those around them are experiencing has some trouble that requires attention.

I am curious what a "unicorns and rainbows" response to someone bleeding out would actually look like? I know people of varying degrees of empathy in my life who would all call 911 and do their best to help someone bleeding out. I had two peers in grad school who immediately fainted at the sight of blood but that is not due to a lack of empathy; it's a physiological response which they could not control no matter how hard they tried. Same as folks who vomit when they see someone else vomit. Or even hear or smell someone vomiting.

Interesting points Wishful Thinker. Who knows? There is so much of the human brain that we do not understand. A good neuroscientist will always admit that....all these years of research and they have barely scratched the surface. Neural function is extremely complex. As I said, empathy is still somewhat of a mystery to me. I just know that various people in different areas of my life say I am higher on the scale. And I seem to have always chosen work which requires a lot of empathy. I don't fully know why. Though I did grow up with abuse if you saw my other post on that link.

Another factor which may be a good discussion point on this thread is the empathy conundrum in healthcare. Too much empathy and the provider is too involved, boundary dissolution occurs, mistakes are made, and the provider is at increased risk for compassion fatigue and health problems (burnout among doctors in the U.S. healthcare system is now deemed a "silent epidemic")....they may be unable to continue that type of work each day. No empathy and they may not provide things which the patient would appreciate.

I've heard there are quite a few doctors (especially surgeons) and dentists who are psychopaths. I'm being sincere, not facetious.

Theoretical, if you are comfortable sharing, I'd be interested to know what you think about psychopaths working in healthcare.

Interesting question. Well, folks living with psychopathy do not feel empathy and they are still human. Not feeling empathy is not the same as not feeling anything at all, right? Psychopaths aren't in a vegetative state. I think they often have very high IQ and excellent problem-solving skills.

Another example is folks living on the autism spectrum. They have difficulty reading and interpreting non-verbal cues due to neurological differences, which makes empathy difficult, but they are still human of course. It also doesn't mean they don't care about others. There is some research on non-verbal children living on the spectrum indicating that their vital signs show improved wellness when they are near others as opposed to all alone. And folks residing on the spectrum can learn to read people better and develop empathy with help.

I'm being half serious and half facetious with this next Q Wishful Thinker:

do you lack empathy for folks who lack empathy??

Good question...

I DO in fact feel empathy for them. I feel genuinely a deep seeded feeling of sorry for them. It is a struggle, a shock, Sometimes, given the circumstances I feel fear.

This scares me. Does it not you?

I'm always interested in evolutionary reasons for biology. There must be a reason why a proportion of our species does not develop empathy. That intrigues me to no end.

Which part? Psychopaths working in healthcare? perhaps we are defining the term differently. Not all psychopaths commit criminal acts or violent acts. I'm sure some of these folks have been my provider at one time or another. I had a colleague who I'm 90% sure was a psychopath but I never asked her about it. Does it scare me? Not really. The world has all sorts of different people in it. Not my role or desire to control it. I just control me. If I need to draw a line with someone, I will. I've had unpleasant appointments with > 1 doc so I just didn't see them again. You've heard the recordings on the news, right? People are starting to record their docs during their surgeries etc. Surprise, surprise...people cutting other people open all day while they're knocked out aren't always saying terribly empathetic things.

I might wonder if a person could safely cut into human brains or hearts all day for years if they actually had a significant level of empathy? Wouldn't they be too freaked out by the responsibility or in despair after a certain # die on the table?? Perhaps we need or benefit from some intelligent psychopaths in society?

Actually, a person who has empathy can have the ability to sit and listen to another person that is struggling and be able to understand the significance of that other person's pain even if it's something they themselves don't feel is important or of value. A person who can sit and listen with respect for the pain another person may be experiencing without criticizing that person if it's not something they themselves can see as important. It's a willingness to see the other person as in individual, with their own identity and showing respect for that instead of spewing off opinions at that person and telling them what to do and what not to do all the time. Some individuals can have a lot of letters after their name and decide they are superior because of that when in reality, they may not be any good at truely connecting with others on a personal level at all.

I have sat with individuals who can't really handle the emotional in others but always tend to come back with "you need to do A, then B, then C". Sometimes it's not about doing A, B, and C either. While that's important, often what's needed is finding one's way through their own emotional duress where they just need to let out their emotional build up and even learn how to do that too.

I had a heart surgeon come out to my farm with his young daughter. After talking to him and he got to a personal comfort level with me, it turned out he really needed to vent some deep frustrations and concerns he was struggling with. His mother had breast cancer and she got chemo and tried to fight it lost her battle. He was really doubting if it was worth is because he did see her endure a lot of pain and end up losing. He needed to hear that there are women that actually do survive the treatment and go into remission and live for many years. It was sad that his mother did not experience that, but she had the right to at least try and see. He really needed to hear that and think about what he saw his mother go through in that vein where she wanted to try and deserved to do so and sometimes, treatment doesn't work, yet sometimes it does work and that's why you at least try. I never met him before, did not know his mother but could definitely see that he was struggling and really needed to talk about this with someone that could help him and LISTEN. We also talked about other things, including how challenging it is to work in the health care field. He was needing to talk and vent, even though he worked many hours opening so many people up and working on their hearts and being able to focus on doing that kind of work. He was not an island or someone who did not have feelings and his own personal challenges. I could see he just needed to vent and talk and was glad I could help him do just that. I could see he felt relief too. That's the good part of sitting, empathizing and LISTENING. And you don't have to have a ton of letters after your name to know how to do that either.

Just so you know, Open Eyes, I wasn't trying to suggest that doctors don't have feelings. There's a continuum there just like with the rest of us. I've known some great docs. Glad you were able to offer solace to that doctor

Oh, I understand that is not what you were suggesting you are correct there is a continuum in that field just like in every field and profession. However, I was not expecting a heart surgeon to share so much with me the way I had experienced that day. I think even in the professional health field it can be a challenge because of that continuum.

I don't think I could have it in me to open up another person and hold their heart and life in my hands. I guess I was surprised he would be having that kind of struggle and just needed to have someone to help him grieve what must have been very hard for him to see happen to his mother.

My aunt was a nurse for many years. After she was retired a few years and came to visit I was talking to her and she said that she had not realized how cold and robotic she had become over the years until she retired and was away from it all. I think sometimes in the medical field you see so much you can become desensitized.

desensititize:
make (someone) less likely to feel shock or distress at scenes of cruelty, violence, or suffering by overexposure to such images.

It could be that a person isn't lacking empathy but has seen so much they have been desensitized.

We're good in certain healthcare positions, particularly surgery. It's one of the professions that psychopaths gravitate towards.

A surgeon has to be able to focus for long periods of time and act with speed and precision while under extreme stress and with human life hanging in the balance. This is a situation which would easily overwhelm most people, and brain surgery is hard enough without the surgeon's hands trembling from nervousness. Psychopaths don't have that problem.