[sunflower55]

Subject: PATRIOTIC RETIREMENT PLAN

This is from an article in the St. Petersburg , FL Times Newspaper on Sunday.


The Business Section asked readers for ideas on "How Would You Fix the Economy?"


I think this guy nailed it!





Dear Mr. President:


Please find below my suggestion for fixing America 's economy.


Instead of giving billions of dollars to companies that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan.


You can call it the Patriotic Retirement Plan:


There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force.


Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:


1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings -


Unemployment fixed.



2) They MUST buy a new American CAR. Forty million cars ordered-


Auto Industry fixed.



3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage

-

Housing Crisis fixed.



It can't get any easier than that!


If more money is needed, have all members of Congress and their constituents pay their taxes...



If you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know.


If not, please disregard.



Peace!

[Soidhonia]

Lovely. LOL. Take care. Soidhonia

[Timgt5]

Ahh another internet myth to bust, this one is too easy.

Lets start with the math here:

40 Million X 1 Million is 40 Trillon, thats 40,000,000,000.00 That exceeds the entire gross domestic product of the US.

To put this into perspective, President Obama's entire budget proposal for fiscal year 2010 is 3-3.5 Trillion dollars

Negating the fact that the US does not have that kind of money, there are other difficulties:

The average lifespan of an American is now close to 80 years. If you forced people to retire at 50 with 1 million dollars that comes out to $33K a year, most people over 50 make more than that already. Not a good deal.

Futhermore what exactly is "American car?" Chrysler is now controlled by Fiat, an Italian firm. Many GM cars are built in Canada, while the majority of Honda and Toyota cars and trucks are built here in the US.

None of this is knock on the actual poster for the original post, just the source.

For those of you who have read internet chains like, boycotts, fuel pills, etc... just remember, if it sounds too good to be true....it is

[sunflower55]

Actually, it just came to my attention that the math was wrong.
And I apologise for that.

However, that amount is *still* less than what we are now spending to fix the economy. And it doesn't give money to the "fat cats" who screwed it up to begin with. No, I'm done with that!

This plan would give give the money to those of us who lost our pensions because of the greed of those fat cats who took the bail out money and quickly went on a retreat, spending hundreds of thousands of OUR money on SPA TREATMENTS! And then gave themselves great big fat BONUSES! AGAIN! (When have you ever gotten a bonus for screwing up?)
Let's get real, folks!

And even if we live to 80, getting @ $33K per year, with a paid off house, and a new car to start with won't be a bad deal. I can live with that no problem. I'm in the North East, where prices are very high. The reason we have to make the money is to pay the mortgage and the loans.
We won't have a car loan.
We won't have a mortgage!

And we won't have a growning deficit for our as yet unborn great grandchildren.

So, though the math was wrong, (and I should have caught it myself), I still think it's a better idea than what we're doing now. Frankly, I am tired of seeing billions of our dollars going to pay off the very people who screwed up the economy to begin with.

You trust them to fix it?

This plan actually *does* stimulate the economy with jobs, housing and automobiles.

Occam's Razor is a principle attributed to the 14th century logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. The most useful statement of the principle for scientists is "when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better." The idea goes all the way back to Aristotle, who said, " "Nature operates in the shortest way possible." And finally, attributable to Einstein,
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
My personal favorite -- KISS -- Keep It Simple, Silly!

This plan is simple; it addresses the major issues effecting our economy; and best of all, it does NOT reward incompetence and greed.

Peace!

[Timgt5]

However, that amount is *still* less than what we are now spending to fix the economy.

No it is not, the president's entire budget proposal is less than a tenth of the amount listed above. That includes national defense, social security, education and everything else, 40 Trillon dollars would be more than the net worth of the US and the EU combined.

Keep in mind that as a libertarian, I have opposed TARP, the Auto Bailouts and AIG. I do not want to go to far into this as it violates the policy of the forum.

I am not saying I support current economic policy, there are plenty of problems with that as well, just that this "simple" solution would lead to hyper-inflation. (Imagine going to the grocery store with an SUV full of 100 dollar bills just to buy milk, bread and eggs) The reason this would happen is that in order to come up with the figure you would have to run the printing presses night and day. Paper that could not be backed by actual physical assets.

Even if you could spend 4 trillon on this hairbrained scheme ($100,000 per person) the funds would not be sufficient to cover retirement expenses for more than 3 or four years and buy a house and a new car.

I would urge you and anyone to please pick up a copy of a book on Basic Economics, written by someone with actual credentials in the field before buying into this "simple solution"

Sorry to go off like this, but one of my major pet peaves happens to be people espousing things on economics that do not have an understanding of the fundimentals of how macro-economics works. I urge everyone here to take time to educate themselves on the basics of economics before buying into "magic bullets" authored by those who cannot even get the math correct.

Dr. Thomas Sowell, a professor emeritus at Stanford University in California, a noted author and columnist has an excellent intro to economics written for the joe average person, I highly recomend it.

The book is titled Basic Economics, A Common Sense Guide to the Economy. It is in it's third addtion and is widely available from most major book sellars.

[sunflower55]

Our paper money is not backed by anything but trust in the US government now. Richard Nixon, (Republican), took us off the gold standard back in the 70s. Yes, he was a "Keynesian."
And yes, I do know a bit about macro - and micro - economics, having been a history teacher for over 20 years, tyvm.
Keynesian economics - prime the pump. Turn the downward spiral around through deficit spending. It is through this type of priming the pump that the economy gets running again. Otherwise, it stays in a downward spiral.

So, thank you for letting me know what I understand. I guess I just don't know what I'd do without you telling me!

It's just lovely when others assume.....

I'm outta here.

Peace!

[Timgt5]

Keynesian economics - prime the pump. Turn the downward spiral around through deficit spending.

So our children and grandchildren can continue to make those interest payments to those wonderful stalwarts of democracy; China and Saudi Arabia, who happen to hold most of our national debt.

Our paper money is not backed by anything but trust in the US government now. Richard Nixon, (Republican), took us off the gold standard back in the 70s. Yes, he was a "Keynesian."

IF you really know your history, you would also know that Nixon's economic policies were a disaster. Taking us off the gold standard was a major long term error, the ramifications of which have been the ever higher cost of living over the last 3 decades. Nixon attempted to counter inflation with wage and price controls, which was another "lead balloon"

Also the proposal that started this thread is NOT Keynesean, Keynes concept of economic stimulus was to go into deficit spending for large scale Public Works such as roads and other infrastructure projects, not massive handouts.

One of the great History myths out there was that FDR's policies cured the Great Depression. There is ample evidence that the application of Keynes's ideas actually prolonged the recession by several years and would have continued to do so had WWII not occured.

By the way both of the major parties are wrong on how to "fix" the economy, we are beyond both "supply" side (tax cuts) and "demand" side (government spending)solutions. The problems run much deeper. If we are to truly save our economy we must do the following:

1. Completly overall of our tax code from the bottom up. Our corporate tax system puts us at huge disadvantage in compared to countries like Ireland. It is too complex and inefficient. Collectively our corporations and small buisness spend 600 Billion dollars a year just on compliance. As a result many businesses have packed up and moved overseas.

2. We must dump the employer-based health insurance system. This idea introduced in WWII has outlived its usefullness and is driving up health care costs. We need to look at a single payer voucher-system, that allows people to directly negotiate thier own healthcare prices according to actual need. Doctors have said over and over again they could greatly lower their service charges if people had the ability to pay cash for service directly, rather than dealing with the insurance middlemen and all the accompanying paperwork. The advantages of such a voucher system is that it both addresses the need for universal health care coverage and brings down costs using the power of the free market.

3. Bernie Madoff was recently busted for a very large Ponzi Scheme and rightfully so. We need to address the biggest Ponzi scheme of all though, the one run by the federal government for the last 60 years called "Social Security" Which is going to go upside down in about the next 7 years. SS needs to be replaced with an interest earning national retirement plan, one that can truly pay for itself. What we have had since 1981 is just another welfare program by a different name.

4. Recognize that ultimately our long term success depends on our ability to become a net exporter. The key to our long term economic growth ultimately depends on our ability to expand into world markets, especially Asia. At some point when China's (and India's) economy grows large enough, more of it's citizens will be wealthy enough to buy American goods. We have to be ready for that transition. The road to that point in the meantime is going to seem long and painful with short term job losses and plant closings. In the meantime a postive way to spend federal funds, would be to increase our efforts to re-train displaced factory workers.

5. Make serious efforts to improve financial education for our kids. We truly need to create classes that teach about investments, budgeting and other financial subjects to highschool kids. This will help them to make better financial decisions when they become adults.

6. Reinstate Glass-Stegal. The removal of this important banking regulation was a major cause for the real estate debacle of the last couple of years.

7. We need to formulate a long term plan to reduce the size and scope of the federal government and pay down the national debt. If we do not begin to address this now, our spending spree will become a massive albatross around the necks of our grandchildren. We need to decide and set once and for all what the specific responsiblities of the federal government exactly are. If we want a permenant, more activist government, then we should be willing to pay for it with increases in taxes all across the board. If we want lower taxes, we must then offset this with a reduced federal government, you cannot have it both ways.

The point is that America has reached a crossroads. Our political leaders have for generations ofuscated, and delayed making the really tough choices regarding our future for fear of losing the next election. Now we face those choices and we are running out of time. We cannot continue to "kick our problems down the road" Doing so is grossly unfair to future generations. We must be prepared to have open and honest discussion about where we go from here and what kind of economy we want to have. Every model has its advantages and disadvantages. We must decide which to pursue. Our failure to truly solve our problems at a deep and structural level will bring about our downfall.

A great empire once stood at this same crossroads in 300 AD. An empire that was riddled with poor management, ineffective comunication, a morally corrupted culture, an over bearing, costly government and a lack of foresight and purpose. This empire simply ignored it's problems and collapsed, bringing a dark age to western civiliztion, that empire was Rome. There are many parallels between the Roman Empire of ancient times, and the western civilization that rose in its place, that stands today. Will we have the strength and resolve to make the hard choices we (Europe and Japan included) need to make or will we continue to put another bandaid on the gaping wounds caused by the indecisiveness and neglect of the last two generations of leaders? I cannot say and perhaps it is truly too late for us. Time will tell.

[sunflower55]

And this is the myth of "History repeats itself."
It doesn't.
Trends do.
History doesn't.

And yes, we *all* believe if everyone just did it our way,
the world would be a wonderful place.
Hitler believed that.
The KKK believes that.
Every tyrant believes that.
It's egomania at its best.

Thank goodness that we have a government of checks and balances.
It may not be perfect,
but it's better than a dictator.

Oh, and as for the evidence on the public works programs prolonging the Great Depression? Over stated. Same with Nixon's "disaster." Over stated again. "The sky is falling! the sky is falling!"
No, it isn't.
Life will continue. It always does. Rome is still there.

However, put my social security into the stock market, and let those theives go at it, and there *will* be a disaster! Have you *seen* what has happened to the market? And you're willing to let those crooked rats have a go at your money when they only think of their own short term gain, and not the long term benefit for you, the customer who pays their fee? Yes, they get a fee each and every time they move your money around -- whether it's good for you or not. I've seen my friend loose hundreds of thousands of dollars as a result. Her broker lost nothing, though. Wanna talk a scam?
NO THANK YOU!

I've paid into Social Security for over 40 years with the PROMISE that it would be there when I'm old. I'm aware that it is not a full retirement. But, I *expect* it. I *paid* it.

And no one can tell me it doesn't work. I've watched it work for my parents, my grand-parents and my great-grand parents. It is one of the few government programs that actually works well!

We have made a few promises in this country. They are called "social contracts." One is public education. Another is social security. Why is it that a small, vocal group is determined to destroy the social contract? What do they hope to gain?

It is easy to trash something; easy to tear something down, saying how bad, stupid, rediculous, etc...something is. It's much harder to replace it with something that is BETTER!

That's why we have a system of checks and balances in our government. So some new idea can't grab the public's attention and become law overnight without forethought.

Imagine if we *had* turned social security over to the private system prior to this current economic debacle!
There wouldn't be an elderly person today who could survive!
There wouldn't be a baby boomer who could retire - ever! (Well, maybe the theives!)
All because greed was allowed to rule. (And I won't even get into the politics involved in that!)

In the end, the sky is *not* falling. Rome is still there, but, it is no longer an empire. The US was never an empire like Rome was. And Rome had many, many problems, some similar, many different than we face.
History does not repeat itself, friend.

And Keynesian economics is about priming the pump. It was about massive public works in the 1930s. Today is not the '30s. Again. History does not repeat itself.

Quite frankly, I think this discussion has reached it's end.
I suggest that this thread be closed.

Peace!