[thelionkinglives]

Hi everyone. I know I haven't been around much lately. Between all the kids sports activies & getting registered for summer courses I have been very busy. I signed up for an accelerated Advanced Rhetoric course that I'm a week late in starting so I guess for me it's an accerated-accelerated advanced rhetoric course

Anywho, I have my first assignment. It's a 3 page paper on which one of the sexes I feel has "suffered" more from these stereotypes. I know the logical thing to do with a female professor is to say that women have it worse. However since it is a Rhetoric course...in my typical out of the box thinking, i am toying with the idea of suggesting men have it worse.

If I can babble for 3 pages & make it sound "reasonable" the paper will definantly stand out.

So here's the stereo types that are presented as a starting point to contemplate. I thought it would be a great thread for discussion here too.

Women: that they are intellectually inferior to men. that women should be attractive. women belong in the house. Strong, independent women are "*****y". That women who act upon sexual desires are "loose". women are suppose to be passive, submissive, demure, cooperative, nurturing, polite, etc.

Men: Given a chance we would all be "*****s". We must be independent & aggressive. That we must crave violence. If we don't love football, power tools & cars with big engines. We are suppose to be the breadwinners for the family.

This seems like some kind of sick cosmic joke that I don't quite get yet that this is MY 1st assignment.

LK

[Zen888]

Hello LK

If you want to watch a movie which protrays the differences between males and females in a twisted way watch "He's Just Not That Into You" on DVD. It makes women look desparate and men look like scum/pigs.

[sweetpea_tx]

Hey now... you forgot that men aren't supposed to cry! LOL... that sounds like a really cool assignment. With all my historical reading, if I had the time, I'd probably write on one point for the assignment and the other for fun! Have fun with it! Also, look at the royal courts back a couple hundred years ago... that, too, gives a pretty wild look into the "differences"

[thelionkinglives]

Originally Posted by Zen888

Hello LK

If you want to watch a movie which protrays the differences between males and females in a twisted way watch "He's Just Not That Into You" on DVD. It makes women look desparate and men look like scum/pigs.

Thanks Zen, I'll check it out in the next couple of weeks. I rmember th ads for it.

I forgot to mention that this use to be a women's only college.

[thelionkinglives]

Originally Posted by sweetpea_tx

Hey now... you forgot that men aren't supposed to cry! LOL... that sounds like a really cool assignment. With all my historical reading, if I had the time, I'd probably write on one point for the assignment and the other for fun! Have fun with it! Also, look at the royal courts back a couple hundred years ago... that, too, gives a pretty wild look into the "differences"

It is a heck of a first topic, I'll say that. In truth I really do side with women have suffered more from the stereotypes but it's so hard for m to generalize like that because I can see alot of individual senerios where it could be seen differently.

I know I'm going to refernce the last election with the way both Hillary & Palen were treated. But I can also reference a current surge in boys 11 & up committing suicide because they were percieved "gay" because they didn't fit the stereo types.

I hate english, writing courses. This is one of the reasons I picked to major in math so I don't half to write as many papers...this is the last formal writing course I ever have to take...YAY!!. Last summer I took Probability Theory over an accelerated summer course & Aced it...this seems so much more difficult for me.

[Zen888]

Originally Posted by thelionkinglives

Thanks Zen, I'll check it out in the next couple of weeks. I rmember th ads for it.

I forgot to mention that this use to be a women's only college.

LK, wear a lovely floral print dress and high heels and you will fit in just fine!!

[Zen888]

LK, here are some topics you might consider:

> When women in the USA finally won the right to vote in elections
> The development of birth control and the right to use it over the last 100 or so years

[bearchic34]

teeheehee this is gonna be fun to watch him struggle through this.......

[sunflower55]

Birth control - Webster Vs Connecticut 1963
(Not the last 100 years. Also, visit the Comstock laws; it'll make your hair stand up! )

May I suggest you write what you think honestly, rather than what you *think* the prof wants to hear. I can promise you that the prof will see though a BS paper in a minute and will *not* be impressed.

The fact that the college/university *used* to be an all woman's collage is meaningless. The prof is looking for evidence of your ability to write; to write well and to write with pursuation. If you use this historic fact as any type of an excuse, it won't go well for you - now or in your educational future. Stick to the assignment.

I think the assignment is a great exercise for a rhetoric paper. It's perfect for a first paper because there isn't a need for a lot of research; people already have their minds made up by the time they are in college - even if they are too *politically correct* to admit what they think on paper.

I wish you well, and look forward to hearing about how it goes.

Peace!

[thelionkinglives]

sunflower55
Birth control - Webster Vs Connecticut 1963
(Not the last 100 years. Also, visit the Comstock laws; it'll make your hair stand up! )
I'll check it out. 1963, that was the same year as the equal pay act was put into action...supposedly.
May I suggest you write what you think honestly, rather than what you *think* the prof wants to hear.
I think it depends on the professor. I am older than most of the students & have lived a very full & colourful life to this point. I simply don't see things as black & white as a lot of the students. I like to play devils advocate alot & sometimes it seems to take some professors a little while to get use to me.
I can promise you that the prof will see though a BS paper in a minute and will *not* be impressed.
I truely believe that generally speaking women have it rougher but I truely feel there is more to the

The fact that the college/university *used* to be an all woman's collage is meaningless.
Ohhh, I know. When I mentioned that I meant it tongue & cheek.
The prof is looking for evidence of your ability to write;
uhhggg...thats why I major in math
to write well and to write with pursuation.
with lots of smilies
If you use this historic fact as any type of an excuse, it won't go well for you - now or in your educational future. Stick to the assignment.
Ohh no...I have much better excuses for that
I think the assignment is a great exercise for a rhetoric paper.
I like the topic too...I don't know how I'm going to narrow it down to three pages
It's perfect for a first paper because there isn't a need for a lot of research;
Yeah, I know...I've already done research for it though....looking at educational attainment, median income, politics, etc.
people already have their minds made up by the time they are in college - even if they are too *politically correct* to admit what they think on paper.

I wish you well, and look forward to hearing about how it goes.

Peace!
Peace right back atchya

LK

[heathenchild139]

i say do the paper on men if you can.

i can try to help.
men must be the bread winner, if they loose thier job, they are failures, if the wife is the bread winner, then the man is a wuss, or generally considered to be feminine

[sunflower55]

LK,
My error, it was not Webster, but, Griswold vs Connecticut. And it was 1965. I'm sorry for the confusion. I should know better than to try to rely on this old memory! LOL! . But, here's some interesting information you may be interested in for your work.
Here is the source FYI:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/pill/timeline/index.html
There is some great information on the entire timeline.

1873 March 2: Congress passes the Comstock Law, an anti-obscenity act that specifically lists contraceptives as obscene material and outlaws the dissemination of them via the postal service or interstate commerce. At the time, the United States is the only western nation to enact laws criminalizing birth control.

1964 Despite general public approval for birth control, ghosts of the Comstock Laws linger. Eight states still prohibit the sale of contraceptives, and laws in Massachusetts and Connecticut still prevent the dissemination of information about birth control.

1965
June 7: Estelle Griswold and Lee Buxton take their Connecticut case all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. By a vote of 7-2 in Griswold v. Connecticut, the Court strikes down the Connecticut law prohibiting the use of birth control as a violation of a couple's right to privacy.

1967
Over 12.5 million women worldwide are on the Pill.
Massachusetts liberalizes its birth control laws, but still prohibits the sale of birth control to unmarried women.

1972
March 23: The U.S. Supreme Court, ruling in Eisenstadt v. Baird that a state cannot stand in the way of distribution of birth control to a single person, strikes down Massachusetts law prohibiting the sale of contraceptives to unmarried women.
(As an aside, this is the year before I graduated from high school!)

Again, I do apologise for my errors; I should have checked before I posted. But, I think you will enjoy this source anyway.

Peace!

[eskielover]

OK......LK.....after thinking about this post for several hours, I can understand why you haven't been around PC for awhile.....You definitly have your work cut out for you.....even though you are excellent at writing & putting your thoughts down.....it still takes work to organize them & determine exactly what persuasion you want to get across in your papers.....especially since this is an advanced class.....not just a "get by" class. Oh yes, the reason you like math more is that it is logical, it is not based on emotional thinking as classes like this are. Math doesn't have many ways of solving an equation, persuasion has an endless numbers or ways to attack it & present it.

the paper is for advanced rhetoric......rhetoric.....the art of using language as a means to persuade or to move the audience to action....the power to persuade which one has suffered the most because of the stereotype Do you have to persuade them into an action or just the fact that one has suffered more than the other? think it would be hard enough to condense just the pursuasion of the suffering into 3 pages....lol.....but then I am always known for writing novels.

Knowing your writing from the posts here....I am sure that whatever you choose & however you choose to write it, it will stand out (or is that stick out like a sore thumb...ouch...I really didn't say that)

At least I know from the list that I am NOT the stereotypical woman......yikes.....I never was & never wanted to be....& that was even before womens lib ever hit the scene....that was before anyone even knew any better...lol......back in the dark ages of the 50's/60's. Sure glad I grew up in a neighborhood with all boys who had no idea about strero types either. I had no idea that I was supposed to be that way...lol.....anytime anyone suggested anything like it, I always laughed at them.....didn't realize they were serious.

I think it's a splendid topic here...not sure that it isn't somewhat equal to politics & religion...lol. Could really get into some heated discussions ~as I pull my head into my turtle shell~....thinking that just my notes on the subject would take up 3 pages...lol.....there really is a lot to say.

Personally, it seems that men's stereotype really does the worst amount of damage & that is the one centered on being the bread winner. It seems that men can't cope that well without being the breadwinner where women who want the career will go after it stereotype or not....& those women who aren't into a career are usually into the family & home & would really rather NOT be working. I think that men who end up staying home & taking on the homemaker position have ended up being looked down on as being in an intellectually inferior position, just like the womens lib looked down on women for staying home, the men were looked down on just like the women. Where women can really adapt to either roll & find a place that fits them best & where they are happiest.

The other stereotypes for men I think don't hit across the board like the beadwinner does......All the other areas, it seems that men can find a nitch where they fit in without those stereotype expectations. As white collar men would always hire the work done with the engines & power tools, so they weren't expected to be good with those things as long as they were the breadwinners & could hire it done......those that weren't better be good with them or they can't afford to have the work done & then it comes back to being the breadwinner again. As far as the violence.....norally fighting was looked down on.....but the ability to go to war for the country was required......know in the past when there was true patriotism (which we have lost along the way with how they have run the wars after WWII), it isn't so much looked at as something that is a good thing by everyone anymore.....so that sterotype has fallen by the wayside mostly. Men are usually able to find a place or person in their life that fits their sexuality.

Just seems that women have been able to find places where they can more easily be what they want to be within the sterotypes, or are more able to shake free of them because shaking free was always considered a more rise in ability & respect......where with the men, it was usually considered a move down.

Will be interesting to see what other thoughts are on these sterotypes now that I am sure your paper is complete & we know you won't steal our ideas for your paper...lol.

I am sure I have overlooked many of toughts.....these were just the first ones that came to my mind without spending much research time. I am sure that we all will be able to share I point out the falicies in each of the thoughts......as there as many ways of looking as this there are stars in the sky (I think there is something about infinity going through my head at this point).

Will be interesting to see what other thoughts are on this.....will surprise LK when he gets a break from his class & gets back here to PC.

Just throwing out some thougts......while ducking,
Debbie