Foreign Accommodations

I'm not one to go against the grain, (to where it leaves slivers, anyway..lol). Nor am I one who resists the acceptance of others. I pretty much go with the flow of things.
But sometimes I do encounter something that just simply bugs me...not sure why as there is absolutely nothing that I can do to change it (and it's those circumstances especially, that I do my best to simply ignore).

I thought I'd share this peeve of mine and see if I'm alone in this, or not, (either way don't matter as it is irrelevant to change, anyhow).
Today as I was watching my usual cartoons on Cartoon Network, on comes a McDonald's commercial. I pay little mind to it..the usual scene..kids playing..blah blah...but then I notice....the language is in Spanish.
Now, at first I think to myself..."Oh. Well..how nice of them to accomodate those who don't speak a word of English". But then I begin to think more into it, which perhaps I shouldn't do because little things like this can sometimes build into something which can bug me....(lol, obviously).
This is America..the U.S. of freakin A...Our language is, after all English..so why are we advertising in Spanish? And it don't stop with television advertisements...Go to any The Home Depot and find ALL sorts of Spanish advertisements (English is the "sub" language)...same for most Food Maxx grocery stores..English as the SUB language?
Our schools, too..(another peeve entirely).

Like I've said, such is progress in this "free" nation of ours..there's absolutely nothing I can do to change it...(not sure if i would, anyway)..it's a free country...(lol). But...if we were to visit a foreign country, you can bet that we would not be accommodated the same.
(Gawd..I sound petty...LMAO).

Have to wonder...What IS enough, anyway?

Okidey...I've voiced my peeved rant...lol.

Shangrala

Ahhhh....I beg to differ with you my friend. While doing my travels in Europe and Eastern Europe, they do accommodate the english speaking folk. In every airport, everything is in english along with the native tongue spoken. In almost all communities, you can find someone who speaks english and will help you out. While they may not be up to the standard that the good ole US of A has, they do their best to accommodate

I remember my first time traveling to Romania. I was scared to death (I was alone) and thinking, how am I going to traverse everything without knowing their language.....well, it wasn't all that hard to my wonderful surprise!

Just thought I would put another spin on your thread

I hear what you are saying Shangrala. I am sort of double minded on the subject... Part of me understands that it would be helpful for those who don't speak English...But then I'd get upset when I've gone to a store and the check out clerk or those who worked in the store could barely speak English....And I'd have to say the same thing over and over and over....trying hard to be patient.

Is sort of a hard subject... Because I believe everyone should be treated equally...But then I married a guy from the Middle East....And when we would have parties at out home, not one person would speak English..........I did not know what folks were saying the whole evening.........They were not respectful enough to speak English around around me, yet I had to be respectful of them, because that is my nature.......... They all could speak English, they just chose not to... Which in my humble opinion is very rude.

I have since divorced so I am not around that anymore..... So all I can say is I tolerate things more now.... Am always respectful to others, those who speak English and those who don't......I try not to let those things "bug" me..... We are are human and we all have feelings.......Gosh I'd gone overboard on this.. lolllllllllllllllllll

Nice to hear from you, Sabby. How've you been? And....Spin away...lmao.

You know...perhaps I should have been more specific regarding "which" countries don't accommodate, as I must agree that Europe does oblige the English language quite attentively, (Kristian has clarified that to me very well..lol).

I don't think you've gone overboard. It's how you feel. All's good.

I'm same as you...I accept and let be. It's not so much as something which I spend hours pondering over, let alone become upset about.
What "bugs" me passes as soon as it approaches, often times never leaving a memory to trace....
(What was my peeve about, again?.....LOL).

I live in a bi-linqual country and really appreciate that we have two national languages even if I don't speak French very well. I live in English Canada but I like to watch French television now and then just to try to absorb as much as I can. I only wish we recognized our indigenous languages the same way. As it is now they are rapidly disappearing. The Aboriginal Peoples Network will have programs in Cree and a few other of the major language groups represented so that does help preserve those language some.

We also have Chinese television and Punjab television so immigrants from those languages can preserve some of their culture too. I think it is important for any immigrant to an English speaking country to learn English but I also think it is important to value their native languages. I know many 3rd generation Italians for example who wishes they had learned their family language but in those days it just wasn't done for fear of social ridicule. Because of how much of the world economy is centred around China and India now and in the future those are now the most popular second languages of choice for many university students today.

I travelled a lot in Europe and the Middle East as well as South America back in the day and I was surprised how easy it was to get by with English and a bit of French. I lived in Israel and Turkey for a time and went to language school but I wasn't very good at it so it sure made life easier for me knowing I could get by on English while trying to learn the language. And I gotta tell you it was comforting to my homesickness when I could find a BBC program on the TV now and then. Now of course there is CNN broadcasting in English all over the world so it would be less homesick for English speakers.

I get why it can be irritating though because I run into it now and then too when it is difficult to understand a new immigrant at the drive thru window but at the same time a like to embrace diversity and really wish I had more of a capacity for languages. I would love to be multi-lingual and surprise one of them with a conversation in their first language.

And yea.... I have a Polish friend and sometimes in front of me she would speak Polish to her daughter and it did seem rude. Like whispering but outload cuz it doesn't matter if I hear them since I don't understand Polish. I told her how I felt and they don't do it in front of me as much anymore. She wasn't offended. She hadn't even realized she was doing it because it is part of how she ensures she passed the language to her daughter. They actually do a lot of mixing up the two languages in one conversations. Quite amuzing. But not nearly so amuzing as when she has a house full of her friends over. I think they just are so excited to be able to speak Polish they forget there is a none speaker in the room. Of course if I approached them in English they would switch for me but often I was content to just sit back and enjoy the cross cultural experience.

We both learned something that day. Her daughter now speaks 5 different languages. They say if you grow up learning 2 languages you have a much better capacity for learning more. In a global economy that can be a real advantage for people.

oppss..... got pretty rambly there.

I use closed captioning on t.v & DVD because of my really bad hearing. There are times I wish EVERYbody knew sign language or at least would LOOK at me when they speak so I could read their lips.
That's my rant on language.
Anyway, e should all learn Mandarin now that China is becoming a big industrial nation.

I agree with alot of your posts. I just have one comment, if people are serving the public, i.e. McDonald's drive thru, at cash registers etc.. I feel they should speak the English language (In America anyway) well enough to read it, speak it, understand it. I can't tell you how many times I have had the order screwed up, because the person taking the order is not fluent enough to understand what I asked for.

Hi Shangrala

This country has always depended on immigrant/slave labor coupled with the promise of the "American dream." Employers weren't interested in Americanizing their workers or their families. They merely wanted them to boost their business or provide a particular service.

It still happens today. When people hire Mexican laborers off the streets for odd jobs, they don't choose the most "American" or "civilized" in the group. They choose the one with the strongest muscles and cheapest price.

I worked closely with doctors for over 10 years. We all spoke in English, even when we were taking a break and chatting. Occasionally, doctors from the same region would speak to each other in their native tongue - but it wasn't a big deal to me, even if they were talking about me. It feels good to be able to speak your native tongue and be understood.

When I traveled to Finland and Denmark as a teenager in the early '70s, all the big cities accommodated English-speaking tourists. All the local grade schools required 4 years of English in order to graduate. My same-age cousin wouldn't even be able to get a sales clerk job without being fluent in English.

I spent most of my time there in local areas, where English was not spoken. I was so homesick just to hear my own language. We were in a restaurant one day, and I heard someone at another table speaking English - not only English, but AMERICAN! I had an overwhelming urge to run over to the table to chat with them about anything because I had only mom with me. She was too busy speaking Finnish, and it was too much of an irritation for her to stop and translate everything that was said.

They tried to teach me some Finnish, but learning a new language is not as easy as it looks. It's even harder for adults to learn a new language.

If all the job opportunities dried up here and your ONLY choice was to move to...let's say.....South Korea. How long would it take you to become fluent in the language and social customs without using English? Could you easily give up your past and completely immerse yourself in their culture, not even thinking in English or about the land you had to leave behind?

After all these years, despite their efforts, I can only say "good day" and "thank you" in Finnish. My Danish is even worse, despite my grandfather's efforts. I can only say "strawberries and cream" and "thank you."

Besides English, are you fluent in any other language?

I think teaching our kids spanish in school is a good thing.. There are so many hispanics coming across our borders that they are takeing over due to our government offering them visas and grants to open there own buisness;'ss.. Spanish is rapidly becoming our second laungage.. My neice married an indian from india and they have three kids.. She has been after him to teach them the language and he refuses..
Speaking of different languages how come no one learns how to speak native american languages..If you think about it theres was the first language here in the good ole US of A..Just wondering!!

I have to agree that teaching Spanish in school is a good thing. I wish I had taken Spanish in school. Anyway, the Spanish, sweet, little old man next door tries soo hard to chat with me..He even tries to teach me Spanish. I guess saying that I am older and is harder to learn a new language is an excuse. Because the little old man is 85 and he is learning English... I need to try hardier to remember... Anyway, learning different languages is a good thing...

I grew up in Britain, and I am ashamed to say, I don't speak another language. I'm sure its extremely difficult to learn a fluent language. My son is taking Spanish in school. I will encourage all my boys to learn a foreign language.

Kudos to you Stranger 2 for raising the issue of native languages in the US. Same can be said for Canada and South America for that matter where Spanish replaced the indigenous languages.

The simpliest politically correct answer is the assimilation policies that put 'Indians' in residential schools to christianize and teach them civilized ways. The cost is still being felt as the effects of residential school abuses and government genesidal policies cross generations.

In my ancestral tribe here in Canada we only have a handful of fluent speakers left. Many survivors of residental schools, where they were whipped for speaking their language, are attempted to bring it back but it is a hard battle.

I don't know the numbers in the US but it Canada there are nearly 300 distinct aboriginal language groups though few of those have any remaining speakers. It is a sad reality of the distructive effectis of colonization.

Sorry for going off topic but it isn't often an opportunity to discuss issues relative to aboriginal people hits the boards.

sanityseeker

We have the same problem here in the States with our native population. I fully support their efforts to preserve and pass on their language/heritage/culture to their young ones. It's a good way for them to connect with their ancestors/relatives who have gone before them. I believe it can help give them a little more strength to know the truth of what their ancestors had to endure in order for them to live here today. It could give them a little more balance, motivation and determination to live in this world without having to resort to "fighting fire with fire" with each step they take - or giving up altogether.

I was diagnosed with a devastating hereditary disease in 1996 at the age of 38, five years after my mother passed away from the same illness. I didn't even know there was hereditary form of amyloidosis, much less one specific to those from Finland.

When I traveled to Finland as a young teenager with mom, I noticed quite a few relatives who were blind, looked and acted strange, but they frightened me. From that point on, I denied my Finnish roots completely, never giving them or Finland a second thought.

When I was diagnosed, I was forced to connect with my Finnish roots. I was fortunate to be able to connect with English speaking doctors from Finland, but it was MUCH harder connecting with my Finnish relatives who had to live with this particular "burden."

My afflicted grandmother died here in my home/this room when I was 2. I don't remember her, but I was told she loved me very much.

I can't learn the language, but I find it gives me tremendous comfort to hear others speak Finnish - even when they speak English with a Finnish accent. It connects me with my Finnish relatives who had live with this disease without any medical/social support whatsoever. It gives me the motivation and determination to stand tall and face whatever comes my way - to make them proud of what they had to sacrifice in order for me to live.

I'm going to post a clip for you in the Video, Lyrics and Podcasts Forum for you...

Thanks KathyM. I look forward to the video. There is much to the expression that "language is culture and culture is language". I believe it is spiritual and for many who are disconnected from their language the loss is deep and only the language can bring the healing one seeks.

People are compelled for good reason to learn the national language(s) of the country they wish to become a citizen member but I don't think they should leave their other language behind in the process. I also think it remains a strength of a nation that embraces multi-lingualism. It is going to be more and more important in the future. English only countries are going to be at a huge disadvantage moving forward if they don't teach their children other languages. They say if you learn a second language as a child your brain is better trained to learn more languages throughout your life. oppps.... I think I am repeating myself now.

You have MANY good points to this reply of yours, which cannot be disputed.
As an adult, learning a completely foreign language is not an easy task. Especially for me, as extremely poor comprehension has always been a major issue for me. I simply cannot remember, despite how important, how interesting, or how easy it is for me.

I support the educations of learning foreign languages. I support those who need to maintain their roots by applying their native language daily. Any kind of improvement is a positive thing.
I've been looking into the Rosetta Stone language program to learn Dutch, as that is Kristian's native language and I'd love to learn that...be able to share that with him. He's attempted to teach me, and he's a good teacher....it's just...I'm a hopeless student...lol. His efforts are in vain.

The Rosetta Stone program is VERY simple and effective. A friend of mine has the Spanish program and I've played around with it some, to see if it really is as effective as they say they are. Yes. The programs are effective, so long as I'd have it at my disposal regularly. The disadvantage to them is the cost. Unbelievably expensive ....just for the "basic" edition.
Still, though, would love to buy the Dutch program.

I agree with all these replies.
My only point was that, though I support the use of all languages, with this being America, those who do reside here, (foreign or not), in social situations should speak English to accomodate the country they've chosen to live in.
I guess that's what I'm meaning....lol.

Your point (highlighted in bold), placed things in a different perspective for me and I have to agree on that.

All's good....

Shangrala

I always feel iffy on the issue of language. I live in a French province, surrounded by Anglo provinces. I worry about losing our language, which is why I'm glad we have French language protection laws- for example, stores have to have their titles in French. People have accuses the law of being xenophobic and racist... I don't see it that way. It's just taking steps to preserve Québec's official language.

On the other hand, I'm happy to see people come here and keep their mother tongue. I live in a very multicultural city, and language and culture go hand in hand.

The only beef I have with this is that since I live in State Capitol just north of Mexico, some of the State jobs here require that one be bilingual (Spanish) so that we can assist them in the human service areas (foodstamps, which by the way, do not require one to be a US Citizen, the Battered Women's shelter (they even have a group just for Spanish speaking people) and many other areas. Even though I have the skills and a lot more experience, I will be passed up because I only speak English and Yiddish.

I grew up in a bilingual country, with English being the dominant language most places. It never bothered me much, because both languages have been the official languages for a long time (and the Francophones settled there before the Anglophones, anyway). My father and maternal grandparents were immigrants and had to learn English (and French in my father's case) to get by...so why is it that nowadays in America it's okay not to learn English? I didn't realise the extent to which Spanish had become prevalent in the US until I moved here. Had I not known better, I'd have assumed the US was a bilingual country, too. English is only the de facto official language, so that allows some wiggle room for the large Hispanic immigrant population to retain their language. Still, being unable to communicate with the general population is just not practical.

There is a difference between forbidding the use of a language within the faily and the neighborhood, which was what was done then, and having an official language for official use or use in the public sphere.
The big problem is that not everyone is a linguist. I speak three germanic languages reasonalby fluently, one romance language well enough for everyday conversation, one slavic language well enough to get me in big trouble, and one finno-ugric language badly enough to set even a dour Scandinavian into giggles (now THAT is an achievment!). All of these languages except German and English I learned as an adult. I lived in a monolingual English home in California.
Most people have their hands full learning to express themselves well and competently in their mother tongues, because, for one thing, the schools that i have been in contact with have been simply awful when it comes to teaching languages. We Americans are not expected to learn, really. Even English classes spend so much time hung up on esoteric descriptions of prescriptive grammar (which are usually passed on Latin anyway) that actually USING the language seems to take a far second or third to diagraming sentences.
Being mildly dyslexic, prescriptive grammars and flexion charts only made learning languages much harder than it could have been for me. My brain just doesn't handle things that way, and I suspect that is the same for a lot of people. Give me the chance to USE the frigging system, and then I can learn it!
However most languages are taught by using books and techniques that are written and designed by "linguists" who learn the languages from books and by memroizing rules from books according to traditions that stretch back hundreds of years. My guess is that there are very few people for whom these techniques work well. Most folks I know who are bi or multi-lingual (my husband and oldest son among them) are people who were able to have a high standard of input in their home language at the same time they were educated in the "official" language. So, books in both English and Swedish. DVDs in English and Swedish. Both languages used in the home. Neither language was denigrated as a "kitchen language."
Having programs in Spanish, or partl in Spanish doesn't bother me, because if the quality and diveristy of the broadcast is good enough, it will actually give a child from a Spanish speaking family a better insight into how a language is used across the board, with nuances and meanings not always found at home. That encourages a better understanding of language in general and will also in the long run help their English, believe it or not.
JMHO, from the tower of Babel here.
Oh, Kathy, one of my hubby's first languages is Finnish. Here's to you!