Mountain Man Arrested For Fishing Without A License

See the video of the courtroom encounter at:

Mountain Man Arrested For Fishing Demolishes Judge In Courtroom While Defending Himself | Conservative Post

I'm as sick of bureaucracy as this guy is. Unfortunately, nature will not naturally support the current population, which is why we have to buy a fishing license.

Unfortunately, nature will not naturally support the current population, which is why we have to buy a fishing license.

Says it all right there doesn't it? Why do certain people want so badly to believe they're being oppressed in the face of common sense arguments a 3rd grader could quote?

Seems every little reg. is being used against who-ever is in office...

'The Man'...is ALWAYS going to be who's sitting in the highest chair...and those guys are FOREVER going to be bashed for diminishing the 'rights' of self-proclaimed 'common men'.

I laugh at these people. Sad ignorant society...what makes them so irritable?...and none too brilliant in the broad bright beams of common sense? Is it hip somehow to play oppressed and indignant? What a g-damn farce. Eedjits.

Nowadays too, stories abound about these so-called 'freemen-on-the-land'

Pardon if I'm treading on toes...my opinion should not exist here. Arghh..can't resist.

Sad fools.

I'm afraid I have to agree, Q. There are also too many ridiculous cases clogging up the system. Everyone seems to think it is their right to misbehave and disregard any law they find incovenient.

The law basically IS in place to protect fish from being swept clean from rivers lakes and streams.

If you want to live like a hermit and take your chances out there in the wilderness, it does NOT give you the right to thumb your nose at every legal provision. No one MADE him move out there, I have to imagine. That was his choice, his risk that he alone takes. The law should not be revoked for one person's pleasure. It just doesn't make sense.

And Q, you have every right to weigh in on this---just as everyone else does.

How much does a fishing license cost?

It is difficult to take either side really. It is more the financial gain of licensing and control of individual access to promote corporate consumption than it is control of natural resources that laws like this are in place. While we do have to control the consumption of natural resources to protect the environment, it is mostly corporations that threaten to rapid loss of resources than individuals catching or hunting for self preservation.

Newfoundland has had this debate many times with fish stocks, seal hunts and moose hunting. Individuals who hunt or fish for self supply have never been a threat to the resources and yet the boundaries for access to local stocks are constantly limited to locals while the access being granted to corporate fishing trawlers to foreign countries and tourist hunters coming in for sport game is bountiful. I think we are screaming at the wrong people.

Is this in Montana? I looked up the cost, and it wasn't easy to find. You have to click on several links to get to the actual PDF which lists the fees. It's not an excessive amount, so I think the mountain man was really just trying to make a protest statement.
I agree, though, the laws are in place to protect the wildlife and prevent abuse.

Conservation License ($10) + Montana
Fishing License ($15 for 2 consecutive days,
$43.50 for 10 consecutive days or
$60 for season).
Nonresident Deer A Combo or Nonresident Big
Game Combo licenses include a season fishing
license.

I found it quite fascinating, really. I can't say I agree or disagree, I can say however that he quoted law perfectly and was perfectly well behaved when he left after the judge left. You don't need to stay if the judge does not call a recess and simply leaves. You can either take over the case for yourself, or leave which usually leaves in a case dismissal. Therefore he was well in his rights saying "case dismissed". It can't, legally, be argued again without the person present. That is why he had a later court date, and now a later one.

I think what he did was actually a quite important thing for people to see. There is a lot we can do in a court to protect ourselves just by knowing the basics. Again, not saying I agree or disagree with what he did, I'm quite apathetic, but his follow through and knowledge was completely flawless. He just reminded the institution that it is ran by the people.

Honestly I am quite baffled he was being held? Americans complain about those on food stamps and disability (like me) are leeches, mean while we spend millions in tax dollars a year putting people in jail or prison for such RIDICULOUS things!

It doesn't matter, there is no good reason for a fishing license. Do we need a license to go to the bathroom? Or go grocery shopping? Not yet, but it could happen, to protect the wild life lol. Then why does this man need a license to go fishing to feed himself. He is absolutely correct in that respect. No one owns the fish, not government, not courts, not states, yet they seem to be able to take ownership of it and charge us to do a simple thing like fishing. It's all about making money, nothing about it is right. The judge was not prepared to argue such a clear cut point, she kept going back to the charges, and avoided how ridiculous those charges were. These fee's are not intended to protect wild life, how ridiculous that is, because if 1 million people PAID for the license, 1 million people could fish all they want, so much for protecting wild life. It's about shaking down citizens to get extra money off them, nothing more. Don't be deceived. The biggest thieves and crooks are the ones in power.

Indie, you're right. If people paint up an idea enough people will start to believe it. There is no true protection of the wildlife if one is STILL allowed to fish BUT with a license. If that were the case and only those who could afford a license could fish and disturb the wild life, that would be a case of classicism. Which in America, isn't shocking.

Most state licenses (fishing, hunting, guns, even drivers and ID's) cost the consumer money that goes straight to the state. Now, that money isn't used to increase the fish or wildlife population. It is used to increase advertising for tourism, maintaining government or affiliated buildings, etc. That is why when your state has a sudden influx of, for example, deer, they say hunting is open to those with or willing to get a license. Because that means money. And nothing else.

Deer for example are extremely respectful of their environment. They are compassionate about it, you barely hear them walk on the under brush because they are aware that is where their food sources grow from. Soooo would opening a second season to "protect the wildlife and land" really make sense here? No. But since that's the way it is painted, in such a lovely way, that is what people believe.

This man basically did what a lot of us forget we CAN do which is run our own cases legally and do so with precision and knowledge. What he really did was stomp on corporate legal America and made perfect sense while doing so.

I am prepared to support my opinions with vettable, verifiable, and reliable statistics...are you?

If not, it probably isn't a good idea to foment more distrust and wrong notions of what the 'government' is 'actually' doing with tax dollars and money from hunting and fishing licenses.

I hardly think the United States is intent on making its citizens slaves. (Do you not have a basic grasp of history?) And, if it did (!), it could not achieve its purpose on the money raised (although the sum is substantial) from hunters and anglers having purchased licenses. That notion is completely out of proportion with reality.

The man, Tertelgte, is clearly highly unstable, as well. He didn't have any respect for the simple rules of the courtroom: No Outbursts. And then, his outburst made NO sense! I'm sorry to have to point that very obvious fact out to both of you.

He is a crackpot---and he just wanted a soapbox from which to broadcast his fashionable feelings of entitlement.

I say the whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. It is HARDLY a case that will decide anything of any note, especially regarding changes in attitudes about what being a law abiding and thoughtful (educated, not just opinionated) citizen actually means...and what it does not.

Everyone has the right to question the legimacy of being arrested, if the case brought against you is without merit. In this instance, I'm afraid the man has simply made a fool out of himself, and will no doubt do so again in January.

And Grey, sorry, but ask a farmer or a nurseryman how gently deer walk upon the earth. That is poetic and very nicely stated, but it is a romantic notion, nothing more. They actually do an awful lot of destruction to many young crops and newly planted trees.

They also do not walk that way because they are 'compassionate' animals...they are prey species, and have evolved so as to be able to move through underbrush and forest without bringing much notice to themselves.

Deer also are not contemplating their gratitude to mother earth, I'm sure. Their brains are not high functioning enough for such types of thinking. They just aren't.

I strongly agree with MuseumGhost in this case . ..

I usually disregard any comment that comes after personally insulting others and myself as superfluous and pointless because that isn't a point of a debate or conversation. If we are going to continue to have a conversation I'd rather you not question anyone's ability to "grasp" history, especially if you do not know their educational backgrounds or personal interest.

No one has stated America is trying to turn it's people into slaves (also using such terminology when not speaking of slavery is highly unfavorable and again a weak argument). We were simply stating that the notion of a fishing license existing on the terms of protecting wildlife is ridiculous. As Indie pointed out, if a million people in one state purchased a fishing license, and then fished, the idea of "protecting wildlife" becomes irrational and illogical. Now, if there is a cap on how many people can have a fishing license, then yes, it makes perfect sense. But as we are in America and law varies not only from state to state, but city to city as well, sitting here and picking all the states laws apart would do nothing. Indie made a simple statement in which I agreed with. Nothing more and nothing less.

Actually, Deer's brains develop in such a way that they are equal to a four year old child. I didn't say any of it to be poetic, in fact when it comes to animal behavior and biology, I am anything but poetic considering I am still paying the student loans off from my studies. I am using information I've learned and applying it logically to a conversation in which we speak about "the protection of wild life" that isn't protection of wild life in the slightest. It's the protection of money. There is no mother nature, there is nature, nor is the deer feeling gratitude, the deer is putting one and two together.

A four year old thinks in a similar way using a similar behavior pattern. If a four year old is coloring, and they break their crayon from drawing too hard onto the paper they will probably try again with another or a few more crayons before going "If I draw lighter, the crayon wont break". They are developing thinking skills. Now since a deer is at the same level with a four year old human, minus the ability to speak, they think in similar ways. IE "if I walk on this underbrush my food source disappears and I starve". Of course their thinking is not so eloquent as we can't get an active image of a deer thinking, it doesn't make it any less true. Do they walk quietly to protect themselves as well? Of course. That is why it is called animal behavior. You study it in order to understand multiple attitudes and actions carried out by other animals and then apply it to their environment.

"Just like us, deer in the wild have daily routines. In the morning, deer may enjoy congregating in large groups in open fields while at other times, smaller groups are more likely to be found in wooded areas or by bodies of water. Particular behaviors may also correlate with a particular type of terrain. "
Deer Behavior | Education.com

Social routines... something humans do, no?

"Daily variations in deer behavior are determined, in part, by the nature of the environment. In rural areas, deer often prefer feeding in the evening hours, but in urban areas, this behavior seems to be less common. The type of terrain also determines behavior. It is common for hundreds of deer may congregate together in open fields. However, small social groups may dominate in wooded areas when animals are feeding. Part of this may relate to feeding behaviors and competition for food. Generally, deer are not grazers by nature, although in some areas, they may resort to this behavior if adequate food is not available."
Whitetail deer are extremely cautious and wary animals with highly developed senses of sight, smell, and hearing. When threatened with danger, they will often attempt to quietly sneak away. If seriously frightened however, a whitetail deer will often utter a loud, snorting or blowing sound, and then quickly run away while raising the tail upwards like a flag, exposing the white underneath as a visual alarm to other deer nearby. This is even noted in fawns, and usually the deer is a doe that shows the flag. They also grunt and bleat."
White Tail Deer

"They just aren't" Isn't a valid or stable argument in terms of the natural sciences. Have you read the latest write ups on animal behavior and psychology? Have you watched informative documentaries about modern animal behavior? Most people like to believe animals are blank when most animals develop brains that are highly like human children (or even higher). I can provide more information if you wish, I will also look for my text book that I can cite that goes further into deer brain development and behaviors occurring in different environments.

Also, as stated deer will only graze if their natural food sources are damaged or eaten by other animals. As you said they are a prey species, therefore they aren't going to fight for food. So like my first statement, what is the point in making multiple deer hunting seasons for a prey animal that will only graze when forced other than opening a hunting season on the animals of prey? Isn't that protecting both land and wildlife? (it's a trick question as it would throw everything off as intense deer hunting has done to the environment, at least in my state).

As for the statistics, I see you said you can provide them, but I see no such statistics simply personal attacks (the grasp on history comment and you making me sound like a poetic know-nothing, weak arguments by the way), and I am interested in reading the statistics and hoping to either modify my thinking on state laws and the control of money, or staying in my own thinking about how I've learned money is handled in my own state when it comes to licences.

This is extremely off topic so if you wish to make another thread and carry on the conversation I will post there as well.

That is all.

PLEASE do not take anything as a 'Personal Attack'. That is not my intent. I do not get on discussion boards to make other people feel bad, so I apologize if that is how you took it. I take issue with what you said; NOT with you.

However, like anyone else here, I have the right to express and to offer more information, whenever I feel it is my duty to do so. And I think I've been really judicious in my comments.

Indie implied that anyone who continues to follow the law and purchase fishing or hunting licenses is basically a sheep and a slave and is feeding whatever "evil plans" the government has to keep us all oppressed. THAT is the slavery I referred to.

You may choose to believe what you like about deer and their intelligence, but I've done enough backpacking, accompanying real woodsmen, and just plain old time out there on foot to know, they just aren't very bright creatures. They are lovely and wonderful, yes---but they are not so highly developed as you seem to want to believe. It takes very high functioning brains to do the things you illustrate. Deer do not have them. They are pack animals who operate mostly on instinct.

I will have the statistics here for everyone to read, by the end of the night.

Pertinent stats from the Report "Hunters and Anglers: Bright stars of the Economy", 2007.

There are 30 million anglers in the United States alone.

CONSERVATION DIVIDEND
A Shore Thing
Thanks to fuel taxes, the Federal Sport Fish Restoration and Boating Fund now receives $570 million a year from boaters, used mostly for coastal wetlands and fisheries conservation.

Spawn of a new Era - 1.4 Billion fish restored
Federal excise taxes and state license revenues generated by hunters and anglers allow states to own and manage 15.4 million acres of habitat, leading to dramatic increases in native fish populations.

Hunters and anglers pay billions to benefit
Hunters and anglers have traditionally been - and continue to be - the largest contributors to government wildlife conservation programs.
Through excise taxes and license revenues, they have contributed more than $10 billion dollars to conservation and annually provide more than 80% of the funding for most fish and wildlife agencies.

SUCCESS STORIES
$6.6. Billion for Wildlife Restoration
Over the years, Federal excise taxes and state license revenues have helped bring back dozens of species, including ducks, wild turkeys, and white-tailed deer. Fewer than 100,000 wild turkeys remained in the nation in 1900 , and today there are 7 MILLION.

Delivering habitats
Through Federal Duck Stamp purchases, hunters have generated more than $700 million, all of which goes into the National Wildlife Refuge System. This money has been used to purchase more than 5 million acres of land, offering some of the best public outdoor recreation and wildlife watching opportunities in the country.

The statistics used in the report come from the following sources:
-2006 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and Wildlife Associated Recreation
-American Sportfishing Association
-Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies
-US Department of the Interior
-Fish and Wildlife Services
-US Dept. of Commerce
-US Census Bureau

--------

There is much more information available to underscore that being required to purchase licenses to hunt or fish actually continues to HELP wildlife, and that obeying the laws of the land requiring such things does not feed into some kind of giant government plan to make us all unthinking automotons.

It irritates me most about this is that they would arrest this person for fishing without a license & yet they won't bother prosecuting ANY ID theft which or horribly rampent in this country......& the police in Albaquerque wouldn't even go after the guy at the hotel I know stole my ID because he was the only one there that night & manipulated the break into my truck in which they stole other financial papers & my $6000 flute that was at the bottom of the bag........& yet they will do crap like this.......

Yep......the enforcement of things in this country isn't even worth talking about......just ends up making ME ANGRY

Your intention is irrelevant, it is the outcome of your choice of words that matter. Thank you for saying what you said, I will still have to disagree with the fact that deer just aren't bright because like you saying you've had first hand experience, I spent more than four years studying how animals think and behave and their genetics, etc. They are herd animals and being a herd animal takes a certain amount of sophistication. Are they as smart as other herding animals like elephants? No, not even close. What I was insinuating in the data I shared is that deer will only harm crops if 1) their land is being damaged by humans 2) if predators and other herd animal are eating from the food source. You claim deer are not smart yet you mention they damage the land and young crops. It takes a certain amount of intelligence, no matter how weak, to do such a thing. I am not a vegetarian here trying to get people to feel bad for hunting and eating deer, if that's how one lives that's how they live and they are not an endangered species. I was just sharing information I gained. Being lovely or wonderful is also irrelevant. I am stating facts not telling stories.

Thank you for sharing the statistics. I can now see what you were speaking of, and as I said, I can now compare my thinking to the facts which is all I intended to do. I do not think with licensing that the government was turning anyone into automotons. Simply that a lot of the money may not be used as they state it is.

The fact of the matter is tax dollars that could have been used for a thousand other things are being used to prosecute a man who stayed well within his legal rights over a FISHING LICENSE. There are many people I want to see put to justice, he's not at the top my list in the slightest. I don't think he is going to start hunting people without a license next.

Again thank you for taking the time and sharing the statistics. I'll do more reading into it tonight and see how my own city handles it. It helps me form a better idea of what's going on.

Yes, I agree with you. And jeez, I'm sorry that happened to you! That's ridiculous that they didn't do anything. This is what I was leaning towards in my last post. People, including myself, are making such a big deal out of this. And some people are saying the money from licensing helps which is great! But the amount of tax money used to hold this man if he didn't reach bond (not everyone can reach $500 I know if I got arrested my family couldn't get me out) and to hold the court proceedings is just down right ridiculous. He fished without a license. The world didn't come to the end. His intent was feeding himself, not the country, and the outcome to the fish population was. Well. Nothing.

We need to validate tax money yet no one is saying how ridiculous the fact is that this man is having a trial over fishing, which cost everyone way more in the end. It's just ridiculous and if he gets sent to jail that's another person who did practically nothing wrong we'll be spending money on in over crowded jails.

The article and video appeared in an extreme right-wing journal. They will sink to any new low as long as something resonates with their reduction-of-government whine that they have been so shrilly proclaiming ever since President Obama was elected. It seems to legitimize their thinly-veiled racist hate.

The man is a crackpot survivalist and his rants are utter nonsense. Don't give me that true man of nature garbage. If he was, he'd understand the need for laws, as he would also be a natural gentleman. You wanna be a child of the universe, then you'd better act enlightened.

He has no more right to cull wildlife illegally than I do. His claims stink of abject narcissism, and a criminally superior kind of twist of mind.

I'm sorry you find him compelling. He looks and acts like a bully to me. He was horrible to that judge.

I thought this thread was a bout fishing without a license. How did it become another political debate. I think most of us can agree, politics is simply legal organized crime led by two main crime families, The Republicans and Democrats. Who cares. Let's stick to the topic of this thread and leave partisan bickering for political debate forums. Sound good?

I AM sticking to the original intent of the post.

I am also putting a spotlight on the SOURCE for this tripe which may make enlightened people think twice about arguing a point that is being promulgated by an agenda-driven bunch of hardliners, who for some strange reason, want to make a 'hero' out of this man.

When you know who put it out there in the first place, one has to really question ALL of it.

THAT'S called getting to the heart of the matter.

And it really draws a picture, for me.

Well, he's not actually a "mountain man" despite the ponytail and funny hat. No mountains in Manhattan, are there? A more normal newspaper probably has the basic facts less skewed. A quick google turned up this:

‘Natural man’ found guilty for host of charges - The Belgrade News: Local News

The language of "natural man" and "fictitious, fraudulent action" and so on reminds me of the kooks in Canada that have been working at similar arguments for several years and were recently described in detail in a court decision from Alberta. In case you are interested in some of the ridiculous facts of the "organized pseudolegal commercial litigants":

CanLII - 2012 ABQB 571 (CanLII)

agenda-driven hardliners? no partisan bickering here lol

Sing a song, do a dance, smell pretty, try to look good. To the willful blind laddie...not to me. MG speaks sense. Bottom line. Fanciful illusory storybook fantasies and twisting plots to suit same are charlatan games. Poopery. I seeya man. What sounds good is a fine dose of reality IV. Sleeve up please.