[IchbinkeinTeufel]

I realise this might seem like flaming, or something, but that's not my intention. A general belief of mine, however right or wrong, has grown from speaking to so many people online, and seeing all these posts.

It seems to me that either the majority of the US (seems like all of it) seem to think that pills are the answer for all mental-health issues; WTH? People always mention a psychiatrist, but what about the psychologist of whom actually works on your problems, as apposed to just covering them up? I've always been told that medication is great to compliment proper treatment. I realise in some cases medication is somewhat necessary (much like why I take Propranolol) but I'm on about the many, many times when it isn't. I use the OCD forum, and I see so many people from the US who've got a ton of drugs listed, and I'm just thinking: "Why not just take CBT? It's a proven treatment with a high chance of success." If you accidentally hurt yourself, do you go to your doctor for drugs, or do you ask them to treat the wound? I'm more inclined to think that a lot of drugs, when not necessarily required, are going to cause more problems than the ones they might solve, due to the side-effects.

For those who think I'm sending secret messages to stop taking, what might be your high-necessarily drugs: I'm not saying any such thing. I'm saying there are many times when it seems like drugs are held on too high a pedestal for those in the US, and perhaps in other places, too.

EDIT:

It seems I have to be clearer about something, because it looks like some have perceived my post in a manner to which I did not originally intend: I have no intention of "bashing" American people - I am sharing an observation, which, from the looks of it, is a shared one. I am sorry if anyone feels attacked by this thread. To clarify: I have American friends, I have OCD, and I am on medication. Some of the things I have said (like the part about CBT being a proven method of treatment with an apparently high success) has come from a highly qualified psychologist here in the UK, one who also was in the states for a few years, training and treating; I certainly wouldn't say something like that, if it weren't somehow backed-up.

[Webgoji]

Actually, I totally get what you mean. It seems like doctor's would rather throw a pill at the problems instead of helping you work on them. Which is why I'm seeing both a psychiatrist (to help get my brain chemistry right) and a psychologist to help me with my coping skills and to work through my issues.

[Fresia]

It may seem that we are geared to medication-only-treatment and I can understand that. It comes from our healthcare structure. In the US, medications are typcially covered by insurance, if you have insurance; if no insurance, it is still cheaper than therapy. Pdoc's are also covered by insurance; therapy is not covered much, if it is covered at all, or is at a greater cost to the patient than medication or pdocs. This lends itself to medication management alone for many mental illnesses. I am not agreeing with this but just pointing out the tendency and why.

On the flip side, I have heard many times a sentiment, similar along the lines of: why do the work, when I can just take a pill?

I personally have found it doesn't work that way. Only a chemical imbalance may be addressed with a medication, and other or underlying issues would be better helped if still addressed or if better coping strategies were developed with therapy; so doing the work in therapy is a necessity as a pill cannot teach or help with this. It has not been easy finding the best fit for therapy or therapist that can help; it is also not without expense, but so worth it to follow through with it.

To all those considering or working on therapy, sending strength, courage, and patience. Hang in there.

Originally Posted by Zwangsstörung

... I use the OCD forum, and I see so many people from the US who've got a ton of drugs listed, and I'm just thinking: "Why not just take CBT? It's a proven treatment with a high chance of success."...

A- you are making really sweeping generalizations.
B- CBT and I don't get along, and if left untreated my OCD leaves me basically unable to function, just to use an example from my life. When I say CBT and I don't get along, I mean that I already use many CBT techniques and every time I have tried to get straight-on CBT focused therapy for the OCD it's been extremely frustrating, even with my last therapist whom I had for several years and with whom I had a great relationship. It ends up with me frustrated because I end up going through a bunch of things that I already do, only to be told I don't actually do them. Other things in CBT I find not personally helpful- it is statistically one of the better proven treatments for OCD.

However, if you are talking moderate to severe OCD, which many people on this site have- and which I know you can relate to, Z... most people can't get by on JUST CBT. If you look into the research that delineates severity you may actually find that the best plan of attack generally for those situations is medication plus therapy. OCD, in particular, has a tendency to be a glitch in the matrix, not more rooted in environmental factors [though they play a part]. I kind of question who gets to say what is a "high necessity" medication here, and what isn't. If I didn't take luvox for my OCD, I would still be in that prison every day of my life.

I also, frankly, feel like I'm targeted here because I happen to be a proponet of medications for those whom they help [but not over medicating], I'm an american and, oh what do you know, I HAVE OCD.

High chance of success does not mean DEFINITE success- and a lot of people who find themselves researching on the internet or on support sites long term aren't finding a lot of success in treatment, which maybe should be considered before jumping down the collective throat of a particular sub set of people.

[ImNotHere]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

A- you are making really sweeping generalizations.
B- CBT and I don't get along, and if left untreated my OCD leaves me basically unable to function, just to use an example from my life. When I say CBT and I don't get along, I mean that I already use many CBT techniques and every time I have tried to get straight-on CBT focused therapy for the OCD it's been extremely frustrating, even with my last therapist whom I had for several years and with whom I had a great relationship. It ends up with me frustrated because I end up going through a bunch of things that I already do, only to be told I don't actually do them. Other things in CBT I find not personally helpful- it is statistically one of the better proven treatments for OCD.

However, if you are talking moderate to severe OCD, which many people on this site have- and which I know you can relate to, Z... most people can't get by on JUST CBT. If you look into the research that delineates severity you may actually find that the best plan of attack generally for those situations is medication plus therapy. OCD, in particular, has a tendency to be a glitch in the matrix, not more rooted in environmental factors [though they play a part]. I kind of question who gets to say what is a "high necessity" medication here, and what isn't. If I didn't take luvox for my OCD, I would still be in that prison every day of my life.

I also, frankly, feel like I'm targeted here because I happen to be a proponet of medications for those whom they help [but not over medicating], I'm an american and, oh what do you know, I HAVE OCD.

High chance of success does not mean DEFINITE success- and a lot of people who find themselves researching on the internet or on support sites long term aren't finding a lot of success in treatment, which maybe should be considered before jumping down the collective throat of a particular sub set of people.

I totally agree with you. Which feels odd considering our last disagreement lol, but I really do agree. She is right high chances of success does not mean definite success and it does not work for everyone. What makes you think these people who list their drugs have not tried this? or been in years of therapy? You don't know their stories.

I think that pills can be very helpful for mental illnesses, and perhaps some people rely on them and them only to get better. I also agree with another person above who mentioned insurance, it is true without insurance medication is way cheaper than therapy, and even with insurance medication is still cheaper than therapy. Medication can be very helpful to many people. Sometimes chemical imbalances can only be helped by medication.

[IchbinkeinTeufel]

A- you are making really sweeping generalizations.

No, I am not - I'm forming an opinion based on what I see on the forums and hear from the people with whom I speak, and I am sharing that opinion that I have formed.

I never said CBT was the be all and end all, I said it has a "high chance" of success, not a guaranteed success. My OCD is in a similar way to yours, as you know, but CBT has helped even me. Obviously I don't expect CBT to work on everyone, but that's besides the point.

However, if you are talking moderate to severe OCD, which many people on this site have- and which I know you can relate to, Z... most people can't get by on JUST CBT.

I wasn't saying I thought everyone with OCD should only use CBT. I wasn't being quite as general as you think.

the best plan of attack generally for those situations is medication plus therapy.

I believe I did mention something along the lines, that I'm often told that it works well for medication and treatment to work together.

I also, frankly, feel like I'm targeted here because I happen to be a proponet of medications for those whom they help [but not over medicating], I'm an american and, oh what do you know, I HAVE OCD.

There is no target. My post wasn't an attack; it was simply an observation. I meant no malice what-so-ever. I'm sorry if you felt my post was mean in any way. I'm just concerned for those who are maybe not getting the right support. I have OCD, as well, and I'm on medication for Propranolol, so I'm hardly going to attack myself.

High chance of success does not mean DEFINITE success

Yeah, I know, and I believe that's pretty self-explanatory when I said "high chance" and not "definite".

I'm sorry that my post mislead you.

and a lot of people who find themselves researching on the internet or on support sites long term aren't finding a lot of success in treatment, which maybe should be considered before jumping down the collective throat of a particular sub set of people.

The only attacking going on right here, is you attacking me for sharing an opinion. I haven't jumped down anybody's throats, although I'm getting quite peeved at your reaction, as much as I'm sure you're just defending yourself. Once again, I am sorry you feel attacked, or that I've jumped down your throat, that I've generalized all Americans to be X, Y, or Z... I simple shared an opinion.

Thank you.

What makes you think these people who list their drugs have not tried this? or been in years of therapy? You don't know their stories.

Hi. I never claimed to have known all people's stories. I was referring to those who are on medication when it's maybe unnecessary; I believe that was clear in my post, but clearly not enough.

Originally Posted by Zwangsstörung

The only attacking going on right here, is you attacking me for sharing an opinion. I haven't jumped down anybody's throats, although I'm getting quite peeved at your reaction, as much as I'm sure you're just defending yourself. Once again, I am sorry you feel attacked, or that I've jumped down your throat, that I've generalized all Americans to be X, Y, or Z... I simple shared an opinion.

Thank you.

Maybe you should reconsider how a post is worded if you are sincerely "I'm just concerned for those who are maybe not getting the right support". WHen you start a post by titling it "enough with the pills!", that doesn't really give the impression that you have concern for other people.

It kind of sends the message that you are getting pissed off at how other people choose their treatment.

As I said, your opinion is based on those who are on the internet and seeking information about their illness, so yeah it is a generalization based on a small subset of individuals who are much more likely to be experiencing treatment difficulties- [i will connect the dots]- therefore, more likely to turn to medication.

And when you open a post with the following:

It seems to me that either the majority of the US (seems like all of it) seem to think that pills are the answer for all mental-health issues; WTH?

... it absolutely is an attack, not an observation.
You said something generalized based on your limited experience with a small number of people, and then questioned it with a "WTH"... that's not an observation.

That's aggressive. I'm reacting to what you wrote, whether you intended the message you sent or not.

You can get irritated with me if you choose, but I can't read your mind. I stated I felt targeted because that is exactly how I felt, and still feel, because of the precise words you chose.


ETA:

Originally Posted by Zwangsstörung

I never claimed to have known all people's stories. I was referring to those who are on medication when it's maybe unnecessary; I believe that was clear in my post, but clearly not enough.

No, but you made your generalizations based on the idea that CBT is highly effective... following that logic your writing suggests you are under the assumption that most people from america on medication have eschewed CBT and gone for medication.

it's possible you don't realize what you are communicating, regardless of what you are intending to communicate.

[IchbinkeinTeufel]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

Maybe you should reconsider how a post is worded if you are sincerely "I'm just concerned for those who are maybe not getting the right support". WHen you start a post by titling it "enough with the pills!", that doesn't really give the impression that you have concern for other people.

It kind of sends the message that you are getting pissed off at how other people choose their treatment.

As I said, your opinion is based on those who are on the internet and seeking information about their illness, so yeah it is a generalization based on a small subset of individuals who are much more likely to be experiencing treatment difficulties- [i will connect the dots]- therefore, more likely to turn to medication.

And when you open a post with the following:

... it absolutely is an attack, not an observation.
You said something generalized based on your limited experience with a small number of people, and then questioned it with a "WTH"... that's not an observation.

That's aggressive. I'm reacting to what you wrote, whether you intended the message you sent or not.

You can get irritated with me if you choose, but I can't read your mind. I stated I felt targeted because that is exactly how I felt, and still feel, because of the precise words you chose.


ETA:


No, but you made your generalizations based on the idea that CBT is highly effective... following that logic your writing suggests you are under the assumption that most people from america on medication have eschewed CBT and gone for medication.

it's possible you don't realize what you are communicating, regardless of what you are intending to communicate.

OK, now my thread title is the problem? It seems to me like you just want to argue, and I have enough anxiety as it is without arguing with you. If you continue to try to argue, I'll see it this thread is deleted, so as to end this drama, now.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by Webgoji

Actually, I totally get what you mean. It seems like doctor's would rather throw a pill at the problems instead of helping you work on them. Which is why I'm seeing both a psychiatrist (to help get my brain chemistry right) and a psychologist to help me with my coping skills and to work through my issues.

My PDoc,, has expressed a combination of therapy with meds is most effective for treatments.

And I agree.

So, I agree, pills alone need not be the answer. Someone mentioned insurance, as hindrance to therapy?
I've also read somewhere, that gp's are doling out meds, meds that really need a pdoc. Could be the social structure of it all?

Personally, I don't feel meds are a panacea. If therapy isn't an option, self help, holistic practices are options.

Thought provoking thread.
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[Almeera]

Meds address the symptom(s), but without addressing the cause, the symptoms will reappear. Speaking from experience - I was prescribed Prozac to "treat" my depression for a while, but I only started to get better when my therapist and I dug deep enough to find the root cause of the problem. Personally, with Prozac it felt like I was trading one problem (depression) for two (horrible anxiety and PICA), so overall it doesn't feel like it was worth it.

Then again, CBT didn't do much for me, either. NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) and visualization techniques, on the other hand? Both worked wonders. It's different for different people.

If the cost of therapy is a problem, I'd suggest alternative means of treatment - online therapy (cheaper), support groups, self-help books and practices or simply working with yourself to identify the things that are really bothering you (which takes a surprising degree of honesty and courage to do). (Edit: not saying "Don't take meds", just that meds + other forms of therapy are probably more efficient than meds alone...)

[ImNotHere]

For some people no matter how much therapy they have the only the only thing that helps them is medication.

[Hellion]

I think one problem specific to the U.S and pharmaceuticals...is the way pharmaceuticals are marketed. I mean I am sure we've all seen the ads...'feeling down, talk to your doctor about this anti-depressant' so they do heavily market the stuff. I think sometimes people do need medications to help treat their symptoms, though therapy and other treatments are a good idea as well. With your example of hurting yourself and having the doctor treat the wound...well yes I would want them to treat the wound but if its causing severe pain I would certainly appreciate some kind of pain killer while healing.

But yes i think there are lots of problems having to do with the pharmaceutical industry, and I would not be surprised if they have a hand in influencing the government to overlook the medicinal benefits of cannabis(nonetheless there are still quite a lot of studies on the matter)...I think they find the idea of alternative treatments threatening to their profit.

Also though I think a lot of problems in this very society contribute to mental illness, so perhaps addressing some of those things would help improve peoples general mental health over-all but it takes a long time for things to change it seems and it's not always for the better.

With all that said it is up to the individual with a mental illness or condition to seek out treatment and make decisions about what sort of treatment they want..it is good to educate oneself and seek out advice of professionals(but don't accept everything they say as 'absolute truth'. Another barrier to treatment though is being unable to afford it.

[gloamingone]

My prescriber is HORRIBLE about this. She tells me I'm on too many meds and then adds another. Meanwhile, my psychologist has the goal of helping me work on my issues so I can get OFF the meds.

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[gloamingone]

Oh, yes, and I just got approved for medical cannibis and am thrilled. Now, if only I could actually afford to buy the stuff I'd be golden. It's supposed to get me off at least two meds.

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[MuseumGhost]

Gently offered to the OP: There are always better-,and worse ways of stating an opinion. When you put up a thread with a provocative title, you might want to brace yourself for some reasonable flak. And be ready to defend yourself, by all means.

Try and see it as a lively discussion, rather than some kind of attack....

As for my own circumstance, I am one of those people, who, without my medication, probably would not still be around to read this thread. Nothing in books, self-help, or holistic therapy even came close to touching what was happening to my brain, and my whole body, 8+ years ago.

My two doctors have never even suggested or questioned me about seeing a psychiatrist or a psychologist, because there are so few of them in this part of the Province, and they are in such high demand. I think. (They could also just BE the insensate, highly superior, nasty, God-playing medical megalomaniacs that I suspect they are!) So, that route has never been an option for me, not once.

End result: Although they are not perfect, and I am nowhere near 100% yet, I still thank whatever goodness there is in the universe for my medications, everyday.

(And I would recommend CBT courses to just about anyone who suffers from forms of depression and/or anxiety, no matter what other attendant issues they may also have.)

As with everything: Take what you can use from it---and leave the rest.

[krisakira]

Since OCD is an anxiety disorder, I will relate to my own anxiety disorder which is Panic Disorder. Back in 2005 I started getting my panic attacks, and it debilitated me so badly that I wasn't able to attend school, and sometimes unable to get out of bed for more than a few minutes a day. Yeah. Well being put on medication gave me my life back. I have been told by "friends" that I should stop the med for it and "finally deal with it", been told by pdocs "You have to eventually deal with the anxiety" and a psychology professor that "meds are for temporarily stabilizing you so that you can deal with the issues in therapy." Sounds like I have been told meds are temporary and not a fix, just a bandaid.

But if I stopped my celexa, which blocks my panic attacks, all that will happen is that I will get panic attacks. What's the point of living with them, if I can take a pill and have them disappear? Is it worth it to "deal with it" on my own, or just take that pill and get on with my life and deal with my actual problems such as trauma from the past? Am I weak because I don't want to have panic attacks non stop like I used to? Because i want to function? Because I want to go to school like a successful college student? Is it WRONG to take a pill every day to make myself function?! Do you have a right to say what's right and wrong for me?

[krisakira]

Tell me why meds are evil. Tell me why they make me weak.

[IchbinkeinTeufel]

Just read the thread properly, please. Some of you making something out of nothing.

Krisakira, I very, very clearly was not saying anything of the nature of what you said. I take mediation myself, and have quite a few years of pill-taking, all of which was stated in the actual thread.

MuseamGhost, if anything it's other people that seem to feel attacked by this thread. The simple fact of the matter is, if you NEED pills, then the main idea of this thread clearly doesn't apply to you; that was more or less obvious by the very content itself. The title is.. a title; that's it. A title is used to express the content clearly, and to pretty much advertise the content. If people are just going to read the title and reply to that, without getting any actual context, then that is not my problem.

Won't be coming back to this thread, anyway - getting a bit tired of people jumping the gun.

EDIT: If I could change the title to something that might not mislead some people that misread, then I would, but I can't, because it doesn't work like that on PC.

[LiteraryLark]

This makes me want to stop my pills...but I can't because I legitimately need them.

[sabby]

I believe that taking meds is strictly a personal decision along with recommendations from their docs or pdocs. Each one of us is on our own path and what works for some may not work for others.

While we are all welcome to our own opinions about whether meds, or psychotherapy or a combination of the two are the best for themselves, what happens when there is a sweeping statement about a particular country and how they deal with mental illness/disorders, there is going to be some backlash and members are going to feel picked on for their own beliefs and paths they are following.

I think this thread has come to a conclusion at this point and will be closed.