[AngstyLady]

So I read this story about a week back about how Jennifer Aniston is standing up to the pressure of having/not having kids (link here: https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/shou...371693562.html) and I think that's great. The article touches on the fact that women today are still subjected to the social pressure to have kids, and how people seem to think you're not a true woman until you've pooped out a baby or two? Really?! OK, while most girls when they start their menstruation may be bit young to be considered a woman, just because you have the ability to bring life into this world, doesn't mean that it's a necessity to do so. Hell, there are a lot of people who would be doing there kids and the world a favor if they never had children(selfish, cold, cruel and the like). Not only that, choosing to not have children saves extra waste in the landfill/helps reduce carbon footprints. I'm pretty sure as a race we're past the point of needing to ensure our species won't die out, the overpopulation issue assures us of that. Not only that, to have a baby and let them be subjected to to living in a questionable world- violence and prejudice, continued warfare and the never ending threat of nuclear war (as long as ANYONE has them, it'll always be a fear in the back of my mind)- pollution and growing global warming and everything else- all the pollutants in the air and in our food (thanks to pesticides and GMOs')- regardless of the fact that instances of Autism and Aspergers and other disabilities are on the rise-[ which research has shown can be linked o exposure of certain chemical pollutants during pregnancy (article link here:
]Science News | Autism Speaks should be reason enough to rethink the idea of having kids. So, with all these facts on the table, people still look upon aging single, motherless women with pity?
Why? I thought we were a civilized nation that supposedly were enlightened beyond placing such high importance upon such basic concepts? I would think people who choose to not have children would be shown a bit more respect.

[Crazy Hitch]

Hi AngstLady

I agree with you.

I think that we are all free to decide on this one and that there should be no pressure on "societal expectations" or "norms" on this one.

We are the ones who continue on with our choices so it's best we make our own.

Thanks for sharing.

You mean not having kids is seen as selfish, right?

I agree with your original title though, having children is selfish, sometimes couples will have a child because of their personal wishes, but what about the child itself? Nobody asks if the child would want to be born into your family, or your country, or even the world we live in. I think parents should think deeply about what their children will endure growing up in the environment that they are able to provide for them before they just go ahead and procreate because of some deep longing that they have to pass on their genes. In that sense, yes, it can be selfish to have a child in my opinion.

[Timgt5]

I am child-free by choice, but would never impose my lifestyle upon others. As for the overpopulation arguments, the problem is on the other side of scale, yes that would be old people. People are now living longer which is putting great strain on the Welfare states of the US, the EU, APAC and Japan, which have aging populations. The system of Government social benefits is based on maintaining a certain ratio of younger working folk to those who are disabled/and retired once that ratio falls low enough then the burdens born by the young will become so great that the economy would completely crash under its weight. Japan is already close to that point with a large number of young folks who have given up on life and stay in their bedrooms at their parent's home.

I am not advocating reproduction for its own sake, children should be brought into the world to be loved and nurtured into adults by responsible caring parents.

[Webgoji]

Personally, when it comes to the decision for women or a couple to have or not have children ... people need to mind their own %$#@ business.

If a woman chooses to have children, the other women will judge her for "holding herself back" or "putting her life on hold". If she chooses to not have children, then she's being "selfish" or not fulfilling some stupid duty.

If a couple has kids, then they're just "trying to make their relationship whole" or "draining taxes and resources from society". If they don't, then "what are they waiting for?"

I have 3 amazing kids (and one son-in-law ) and two great grandkids. Why? None of anyone's %$#@ business. That's why.

[kim_johnson]

I've often thought that I don't really understand why people choose to have children when there are already far too many children in the world, many of whom aren't getting the emotional and physical support that they need in order to thrive.

On the other hand, the implication that it is better not to have a child than to have a disabled child... God forbid, possibly a child on the Autistic Spectrum, upsets me, rather.

Perhaps the biggest form of discrimination is in the form of abortion. In china it is fairly common for prenatal tests to be used to determine gender and then to abort female fetuses. In western society it is fairly common for prenatal tests to be used to determine downs syndrome and then to abort fetuses with downs syndrome. Whatever one thinks of a women's right to choose what happens to her body / the rights of the fetus how are these cases not cases of discrimination against women and against downs syndrome, respectively? Would we let a woman abort a fetus she elected to conceive because it has genes for brown eyes or dark hair? I really hope they don't find the Autism gene (genes) / any diagnostic screening for it, because if they do, the temptation for dumb people to extinguish that which they do not understand would simply be too great.

I actually think... We need some sensible restrictions on childbearing / raising children. Especially in the sort of society I want to live in where there is an attempt (at least) at free access to education and healthcare and other public services. From the perspective of the ecosystem 'massive human diebacks would be good ' (Leopold's 'Land Ethic'). The 'mushroom childraising strategy' of having 8 or 10 or 14 and seeing who / how many makes it to adulthood doesn't work out so well in the developed world where one is better off focusing on 1 and properly supporting that child through to college (perhaps even for multiple degrees)...

[*Laurie*]

I respect any woman's (or man's) choice not to have children. That said I do believe that parenting is a "full circle" of what existence entails.

I get a little offended at the idea that simply because I have children, I will automatically judge all those who choose not to.

It most certainly should be everyone's right to choose.

[AngstyLady]

I just want to add that I by no means am for discriminating abortions, I was just trying to raise awareness in a seemingly unaware (at least in my immediate environment) that the decision to not having children is ok too.

[Travelinglady]

I think a man and a woman should ideally chose to have or not to have children. I certainly don't see having children as selfish, although I understand that some young girls have babies because they "want someone to love them." I love my children with all my heart, but children do take a lot of care and attention and devotion and money.

I know some women are devastated when they can't have children, and I understand that. I also realize that some women don't want children, and if they don't, then that is their choice. I won't get into the topic of abortion.....

[*Laurie*]

For me, having children was not a selfish decision. I brought adored children into the world, raised them with enormous amounts of love and careful, patient teaching and gave the world two extraordinarily beautiful people who are giving back to the world in a variety of positive ways. I am proud of my work as a mother, and would not have traded it for anything.

[kim_johnson]

Originally Posted by AngstyLady

I just want to add that I by no means am for discriminating abortions, I was just trying to raise awareness in a seemingly unaware (at least in my immediate environment) that the decision to not having children is ok too.

Yes. I'm sorry - I didn't mean to hijack.

I'm 36 and I've pretty much decided that I'm not going to have children. I've also pretty much decided that I prefer to stay single rather than seeking a suitable life partner.

Sometimes I do feel like I'm being selfish in having made this decision. Firstly, because relationships (with partners, with children) involve compromise. I do feel... Like I'm perhaps more particular about doing things the way I want to do things than I would (need to be) in a (healthy) relationship. But then perhaps my inability to compromise particularly well is (at least part of) why I'm better off not being in a relationship. But I do worry that it makes me selfish, yeah.

I've come to the conclusion that since I'm not investing most of my time raising a family or in supporting a life partner in making a positive contribution to the world... That it is very important to me to contribute to society in other ways.

There are stories of doctors who make 'sacrifices'... Spending all their time at the hospital looking after their patients rather than doing the 'more enjoyable' thing of playing with their kids and / or hanging out with their wives... I think the truth of that is more likely to be that the person can function well within the limited social role of 'doctor' but really can't function at all outside that role. I think that is more likely to be the truth of the situation...

I think that sometimes people have kids for selfish reasons and sometimes people have kids for selfless reasons... Perhaps the luckiest people of all have internal drives and needs that are more or less synchronous with the drives and needs of their offspring such that both can be happy in their selfishness... Heh. I don't know.

[Methoda]

I agree, if you don't want kids then don't - its your own choice, your own life... But in my opinion even people that want kids can be selfish: if you cant provide a stable environment for a kids just want until you can, otherwise you are selfish...

I think the bottom line is if you can't financially afford to have children why have them then, and then complain that you can't afford diapers, food, or anything else. I chose a long time ago I didn't want a child, and that's my choice. People have asked me why I don't have or want children, and I honestly tell them I just don't have the patience. Does that make me a bad person? Then sometimes I think if I did want a child, the way this crummy world is. Sorry to sound negative, just my thoughts.

[kim_johnson]

statistically... when infant mortality is high then the birth rate is high. when infant mortality is low then the birth rate is lower. when your kids are statistically not likely to survive past their 5th birthday it might make sense to have a bunch of them. then you increase the likelihood you will have someone able to fetch and carry the family water when you aren't able to so that you won't die of dehydration.

Originally Posted by Methoda

I agree, if you don't want kids then don't - its your own choice, your own life... But in my opinion even people that want kids can be selfish: if you cant provide a stable environment for a kids just want until you can, otherwise you are selfish...

So true.
It seems that the results of every teen pregnancy in the US is understood to be gratuitously paid for by the government.

They don't seem to realize that I am the one paying.

Perhaps high school should teach courses on how the government works at an earlier grade level...

[ArtCogito]

I decided not to have children at 22. Everyone I knew was against me making a decision like that so young, and no one expected a doctor to honor a request like that, but you never know until you ask. I had learned enough about myself, and what will be my own life long battles, and chose to find other ways.

[CapedCrusader]

Having Kids is Selfish? No it's not... Having kids means achievement, a blessing, and success. Yes. When we get old not having any children, who would come and wipe our asses out.

[AngstyLady]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader

Having Kids is Selfish? No it's not... Having kids means achievement, a blessing, and success. Yes. When we get old not having any children, who would come and wipe our asses out.

That seems like the opinion of one who is having kids to serve their own needs later on down the road . . .

[CapedCrusader]

I didn't mean it like that. It's just that you know when we get old, we need our children to take care of us. Imagine this, you grow old alone in a house, no children at all. What would you do? When you get old, you long for your family like where's who or where's my son, where's my daughter? You will always long for care and love. Psychologically, when people get old, their minds would be different like they long for love and care. Treat old people like children.

[AngstyLady]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader

I didn't mean it like that. It's just that you know when we get old, we need our children to take care of us. Imagine this, you grow old alone in a house, no children at all. What would you do? When you get old, you long for your family like where's who or where's my son, where's my daughter? You will always long for care and love. Psychologically, when people get old, their minds would be different like they long for love and care. Treat old people like children.

Ah, yes, very true. Except the treat old people like children' part, that's not right when people accidentally do that- I mean, they're full grown adults- they don't like to be treated like children, it's insulting to their intelligence. I studied geriatrics and other things and they talked about how that's one thing you have to be careful not to do- yes they are old and perhaps frail, but they're adults, not children . . .But yeah, other than that I do understand your point. But that's a big part of things, people are scared of growing old and I guess it would be nice to have someone there for you, but not necessarily a necessity.

[Sameer6]

Originally Posted by AngstyLady

So I read this story about a week back about how Jennifer Aniston is standing up to the pressure of having/not having kids (link here: https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/shou...371693562.html) and I think that's great. The article touches on the fact that women today are still subjected to the social pressure to have kids, and how people seem to think you're not a true woman until you've pooped out a baby or two? Really?! OK, while most girls when they start their menstruation may be bit young to be considered a woman, just because you have the ability to bring life into this world, doesn't mean that it's a necessity to do so. Hell, there are a lot of people who would be doing there kids and the world a favor if they never had children(selfish, cold, cruel and the like). Not only that, choosing to not have children saves extra waste in the landfill/helps reduce carbon footprints. I'm pretty sure as a race we're past the point of needing to ensure our species won't die out, the overpopulation issue assures us of that. Not only that, to have a baby and let them be subjected to to living in a questionable world- violence and prejudice, continued warfare and the never ending threat of nuclear war (as long as ANYONE has them, it'll always be a fear in the back of my mind)- pollution and growing global warming and everything else- all the pollutants in the air and in our food (thanks to pesticides and GMOs')- regardless of the fact that instances of Autism and Aspergers and other disabilities are on the rise-[ which research has shown can be linked o exposure of certain chemical pollutants during pregnancy (article link here:
]Science News | Autism Speaks should be reason enough to rethink the idea of having kids. So, with all these facts on the table, people still look upon aging single, motherless women with pity?
Why? I thought we were a civilized nation that supposedly were enlightened beyond placing such high importance upon such basic concepts? I would think people who choose to not have children would be shown a bit more respect.

I agree with you. You have provided various good reasons,most of them which i already know.Actually, me being a lonely man have this kind of problem.Nobody can pressure me into this but it's just,the so called society thinks bad about the people who don't want to marry and especially not wanting to having kids.Most neighbors and relatives think i'm weird just because i'm not married yet.I don't care what they think.

[Fizzyo]

When I was a teenager I thought the world was such an awful place that no responsible person would bring a child into it. In my 20s I changed my mind and wanted a family with my husband, however, due to the risk of birth defects (serious) from my medication (lithium) we did not have any kids. Then he had bipolar diagnosis and we were more certain. We knew there was a small but significant chance of passing on either of our mental health problems we were more certain. if they had serious mental health problems, could we look them in the eye and say ' we knew the risks but did it anyway'?
Sometimes I am sad, especially Mother's Day but I try to make the most of other people's children. These decisions are never easy and sometimes are taken out of your hands. A woman may not be childless or with child by choice.

It is unfortunate how many children in the world are enduring hardships via abuse, neglect and what not. But a couple shouldn't base a decision to have children on what others are going through. Yes its sad, but not everyone who has kids is going to be a bad or abusive parent, although it seems that is the norm nowadays. Me speaking personally, I want kids. I've always wanted to be a father and now I am in a place in my life where I am financially stable and my life is working out, so me and my wife have made the decision to possibly make that happen. Is it selfish to have children? Depends on the person. Is it selfish to not have kids? Again, depends on the person. But I firmly believe that it is anyone's choice and will respect the decision anyone makes. I just hope that those who are having children think long and hard about the situation they plan to raise the kids in.

[CapedCrusader]

Having Children... You have to take full responsibility. It isn't a joke at all. So I say, it is not selfish. You will find happiness in it. Building a Family. Working for them. Have fun with them like today's the last day of the world. It's gonna be great.