meat and etymology questions

Why is meat from cows beef or cattle? Why is meat from pigs called pork? Chicken is chicken. Fish is fish.
What would we call horse if we ate meat from a horse? Why do most people react with horror at the thought of horse as meat?

You forgot ham. Why does meat from a pig have two names? And why is deer is venison?

I think ham is a specific cut of meat from the pig... like bacon or pork chop. I did forget sheep though... mutton? Good question about the deer. Do you think people coined these terms to make eating animals more acceptable?

Online Etymology Dictionary

Thanks but... beef not much help there.

My dad always called ground beef "force meat". I guess it was a slang way of saying forced meat as in through the grinder. Through my young ears I assumed everyone ate horse meat!!

Pork comes from latin (porcus) as well as French/Middle English (porc).
Same for beef-beuf is its French origin. According to Wiki, the modern word "ham" is derived from the Old English ham or hom meaning the hollow or bend of the knee, from a Germanic base where it meant "crooked".
(no clue about the others but I think they also have a similar French or middle english origin

But what is the origin of pig? And cow? Why do we have one name for the animal and other names we use when those animals become food?

pig: "probably from Old English *picg, found in compounds, ultimate origin unknown"

Pork, because we usually use the adjective porcine for things relating to pigs. As mousbear mentioned, from Latin.

The different names often have to do with different cultures or different cultural statuses within a culture. I think I read once that certain animal names and cuts of meat have come partially from "vulgar latin" and others from "proper latin" so you sometimes end up with two names for the same thing. I'm not sure how accurate it is though.

We were raised that "meat" describes any type of muscle from ANY animal and that you have be more specific when describing your protein otherwise ( I even remember getting a lecture about this once ): chicken, pork, beef, horse, emu, buffalo, etc. Then from there the cut of meat: fillet, ribs, tenderloin, chop, leg, etc.

My understanding from literature classes is that beef is from middle English, "bos" the word for a "cow" and "bof" for cows/cattle; then has changed over time to become being pronounced "beef".

My understanding is that in countries where eating horse meat is accepted it's called "horse."

I don't know about the specific words you asked about, but yes, some times the meat we eat is called something else to make it more palatable. Mahi Mahi used to be called dolphin. People didn't want to eat Flipper so the name was changed. In reality, it is a type of fish.

As for why some react in horror at eating horse meat, for some of us it would be like eating dog or cat. I know there are cultures that eat each of these, but for some of us eating dog, cat or horse would be like serving Aunt Tilly for dinner. Would you want to eat one of your cats?

I grew up eating horse meat

How about we all stop eating meat. This thread made me think of that. Sometimes I'm grossed out by the thought of any meat at all. People don't eat cats or dogs, normally anyways. Why is it only certain animals we think are okay to eat and not others?
Apparently, world hunger could be stopped, climate change drastically improved, and people would generally be healthier without meat in their diets, only needing to make sure they get enough b12. And I sit here eating liverwurst because I think my body is iron deficient. Interesting thought, if you loved horses would you eat it? I never will.

Many languages have two words for the more carnal, and the product. My language makes a difference between the word for muscle and the word for meat. Some languages do not, such as Arabic where it is the same. My language only makes a difference between pig and pork, and cow and beef. All the other animals one eats have the same names as food.

The reason the English languages can go to an extreme with this is that it has two sets of words, the French influence was immense (and French comes from latin), so you have the Latin based words and the Germanic based words.

Since the Latin based words came later and in a context that meant culture, those words came to mean the finer thing, or the finer way to say something.

Pork and beef are from French words, so is poultry and mutton. The name of the animal itself is often Germanic, the word for swine even appears in proto-Germanic as swinan, so it has been there forever. Farm animal names are usually VERY old.

You can sometimes guess what word is the Germanic and what is the Latin based word because the snootier it sounds, the bigger chance it is Latin based.

buy - purchase
belly - abdomen
main - primary
holy - sacred
go on - proceed
work - labour
wild - feral

Words are fun. The etymology is fascinating but the psychology of words and language is great too. I think people feel more comfortable eating beef or ham than they do with eating some cow or some pig. Personally I don't think it's logical to say it's okay to eat this animal but not that one. Some meat processing practices seem cruel and disgusting ( foie gras & veal come to mind) and with the need to process greater and greater quantities of meat it is all becoming cruel and disgusting. I'll leave it to the reader to understand what I'm talking about if he or she is interested in how our meat and dairy products are processed.
Anyway, after hearing about the death of Liz's horse I was hoping this thread would die.

Technically, homo sapiens evolved to be omnivorous, with our earliest ancestors being hunter/gatherers. It's in our DNA to have a need for animal protein along with vegetation. Even vegetarians and vegans have to find ways to supplement it in their diet.

To be more precise, our larger brains are product of evolutionary needs and branching out from diets of simple fruits and vegetation, which give our bodies moderate energies, to adding animal protein in the mix, which boosts our energies to allow for a larger brain capacity. Our brains are quite larger than our evolutionary cousins, the chimpanzee, and even they form hunting parties to go out and hunt down meat.

Actually, it's quite fascinating. The males in a family group go out and form a hunting party, where they hunt down small mammals, usually small monkeys being their preferred choice, and they give some of the meat to the females in their family group, who remember them and allow them to father the next generation with them later on. Sometimes, though rarely, they even hunt down members of their own species, in another, bordering family group, which has usually tested the males to their tipping point and all and all out war happens between the males.

As for growing crops, the pollutants from the fertilizers alone is more damaging than the methane producing live stock we consume. Haven't you learned nothing from the DDT disaster that nearly wiped out the American Bald Eagle? If you were to argue that say, organic fertilizers were the way to go, you'd need livestock to produce said fertilizers, right? It's a catch 22 if you ask me.

I could go on and on about how audacious your ideals are, but then again, I would be preaching to mute ears, much like you are right now with your vegan/vegetarian viewpoints. With that said, I have a hankering for a nice hot, juicy sirloin steak, dripping with all it's deliciousness. Thanks!

Interesting, and no, my ears are not mute. I like to learn, and I'll read this again see if I learn anything when I'm actually awake.

P.s. sorry George for not letting the thread die lol.

I don't think I saw an explanation for beef above. Here's what I found:

Online Etymology Dictionary
beef (n.) Look up beef at Dictionary.com

c. 1300, from Old French buef "ox; beef; ox hide" (11c., Modern French boeuf), from Latin bovem (nominative bos, genitive bovis) "ox, cow," from PIE root *gwou- "cow, ox, bull" (see cow (n.)). Original plural was beeves.

No worries George. I'm pretty sure that no one involved in this thread ate Kyoti after he was dead. Especially since he was buried.

Personally, I find the etymology of words fascinating.

My hubby used to tell people this is the reason we (humans) have sharp, ripping teeth in the front of our mouths.

Bald Eagle and the brown pelican. Have you heard about the maniacs who want to use DDT to go after the mosquitoes that carry the Zika virus? I'm in no way minimizing the danger of Zika to unborn humans, but are we willing to risk exterminating other species when other means are available to go after the mosquitoes?

A convincing reason for not using horses for meat I found on Wikipedia, and it is about economic efficiency, rather than cultural taboo. It seems that, if you are going to use a section of grassy land to produce meat, you'll get more meat per acre by raising cattle, rather than horses.

"As horses are relatively poor converters of grass and grain to meat compared to cattle, they are not usually bred or raised specifically for their meat."
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_meat

That is similar to the reason why, historically, pork has been a favored food source with the less affluent of the world. If you're raising a meat source with limited resources, like a very small plot of land, pigs can be reared more cheaply than cattle (pound for pound - of meat - that is.)

sorry, here i am again, but if you knew what pigs are fed, and what they eat when they are desperate enough, you might not want to eat pork. at least i learned a few things, but i'll still have bacon once in a while. I used to go trucking with my first bf, and what they do with by products of animals is disgusting. Pigs are known to eat another pig that isn't quite dead yet. The way they are raised now is cruel imo. Apologies. Since being on here, I've learned more than I'd like to in some ways. The thing was to learn about words, and I agree that is very interesting.

It looks like all animals raised for food processing are treated cruelly.
Animal Cruelty Is the Price We Pay for Cheap Meat | Rolling Stone

I doubt I'd drink milk in USA if it wasn't organic. Here there are quite severe rules for keeping cows. Despite that, you can treat chicken anyway you like.

It seems that evil is the basis for a lot of business profit. Just be willing to do more evil, and you can make more money. Industrialised farming seems to be a complete horror show.