Tracking Your Kids?

Again....how did we survive to be the age we are? This is all a part of growing up and becoming able to function as an adult in the world. Mistakes are learning opportunities and I truly believe we are doing our younger generation a disservice by trying to wrap them up in a protective bubble.

What will happen to them when we are gone? How will they have learned to be responsible adults who know that actions have consequences?

How will they learn that yes..there are bad people in the world that will hurt them? Put their trust in a chip or a cell phone to save them? Again, just my thoughts. I am a mother of a 26 year old (who caused me a lot of grey hairs) and the grandmother of a 4 year old.

I absolutely remember what it is like to be a teenager. But, hindsight being 20 / 20 I also see the lack of ability to accurately see the consequences of your actions in that mindset; which is precisely why we have things like parents and laws. If parents are too foolish or negligent to care what their kids are doing we have laws to attempt to legislate safer behaviors.

I trust my kids absolutely. Just because their motives being out in the middle of the night might be innocent doesn’t mean everyone out there have the same motives. There are also other forces that teens don’t take into consideration. As a teenager I did not understand that some places are physically dangerous. You feel immortal, everything bad happens to other people. Climbing the same bluff you’ve climbed a million times takes on a new danger when it’s in the dark.

I grew up in a very strict, restrictive household. My husband grew up in a home where his parent had no clue where their children where, or what they were doing (nor did they seem to care). The ironic thing is he’s the one that would be perfectly content locking them in the house until they’re 30 because he carries the baggage of the mistakes he made without parental supervision. Because of the baggage I grew up with, being much oppressed and having a younger brother with more freedom than I had simply because of his gender, I’m more permissive. We balance each other out. Having said that, our main goal is to have them grow up as happy, healthy, well adjusted human beings I’m not going to allow them to do something unsafe just because they REALLY want to.

I do not think that some form of tracking device will “save” my child. I would be happy to be able to afford On Star for all of our vehicles. If there were some form of an accident they could deploy necessary services immediately. I also think that has this device been available when my older children were teens, they might have had more freedom. So perhaps I’ve changed my mind. I don’t know what I would have permitted with that false sense of security.

The kids in our neighborhood knew of the local chesters. Most of us had known by the time we were in grade school, and we avoided those houses, thinking they were the homes of the "monsters", as told to us in horrific detail by our older siblings and baby sitters. When we became the older siblings and baby sitters, we passed on those legends to the younger kids. Partly to protect them and keep them away from those people, mostly just to scare them. By the time I was thirteen, we'd run the chesters out of the neighborhood entirely. Teens, in the late teen years especially, are intelligent enough to stay away from the chesters.



It's true that teenagers are very arrogant. I was. I still kind of am. Partly. Mostly... But they're not completely stupid and vulnerable. Besides, most of the trouble they seem to find themselves in occur while at a friend's or a party (of which the parent knows), not while sneaking out at night.

I'm not condoning the act of sneaking out. When my kids sneak out, I will punish them. But, when they get older, I'd have no problem with them being out until curfew without a lojack system of any kind. As long as they don't come back in a squad car... There needs to be a happy medium.

There is research to support the fact that teenagers' acts are the product of evolution. I watched a program on Discovery once about how it is "programmed" into us to feel invincible because of evolution. Teens aren't dumb. They are actually extremely intelligent, they CHOOSE to make the decision.

http://esciencenews.com/articles/201...med.take.risks

It has nothing to do with how "good" your kid is. That's what kids do and I feel its a little unnatural to completely keep them away from typical teen learning.

In Amish culture, when a child turns 13 they are given the entire year to do whatever they want. They can explore other cultures, they can have fun and pretty much do everything not allowed in Amish culture. When that child turns 14 they are given a choice - to go be with all of those fun things they experienced over the past year, or to come back to the Amish and live their lifestyle. If they choose to leave then they are completely ostracized. Even the Amish understand that teens net to be let loose! lol

I haven’t heard anyone suggest that teens are dumb, stupid, or intellectually challenged in any way.

The age of rumspringa is usually 16, not 13 btw because the Amish do not believe that a person can be held accountable for anything they do before 16. Although if they wanted to ensure that they came back, 13 would make more sense as they cannot get a job, housing, etc at 13.

And I don't think anyone has suggested "completely keeping them away from typical teen learning." But teens DO need boundaries in their life, and parents certainly need to help them learn to have and respect boundaries. I'm not about to allow my kids to have a free-for-all and let them do whatever they want. On the other hand, I'm not one to tie them to home either. A healthy balance is the key. It has worked well with my kids.

Again, back to the original topic (boy we have meandered haven't we?). I don't think the whole cell phone app would be very useful unless a parent actually gives their small children a cell phone to carry with them. Older kids (and spouses) would obviously know how to work around the system. If it is a matter of trust, the family has bigger issues than the app can address. If it is a matter of safety, it's naive to think this would be much help. If it is a matter of communication, pick up the danged phone and make a phone call.

I agree with you farmergirl. I would like to add again, in my case, if they didn’t answer the phone, that is when I would like to know where they are and why they are unable to answer the phone.

I guess that I’ve been assuming, lol, that you all realize that there is definitely a problem in our family if the phone is not answered. If I called one of the kids and they did not pick up the phone or call back within a few minutes, that is definitely cause for concern here.

Hehe ... I'm not going to lie. My wife gets angry at me when I don't answer my phone. She then contemplated lo-jacking my cell phone, to which I vehemently disagreed. And, after much discussion of ethics, privacy, trust, and the iconic figure "Big Brother", she was persuaded against the idea...

I can imagine the reaction of a 17/18 year-old when asked, "Why didn't you answer your phone when I called?" And, that conversation usually ends in the screaming proclamation of: "I was having SEX!" Regardless of whether or not they actually were...

Now, imagine that the lo-jack system indicated where said teen was. The parent drove to said location, and asked the same question ... Or asked, "Timmy, why aren't you ans- Oh my goodness! What is going on here?!" OMG, total social suicide.

I don't know, I'm just rambling...

I’m not great about answering my cell either. But then I don’t leave the house much without one of them with me. When I am on my own, my car answers for me via the radio and that’s actually the best time to actually get an answer. My husband and children on the other hand always answer their phones. If my husband particularly didn’t answer his phone I would be especially concerned. He doesn’t even pull over to return a call, he’ll answer it while he’s driving. So if he doesn’t answer, there’s definitely a problem.

Once again it boils down to what’s expected of them. I pay for them each to have a cell phone so I can reach them, the fact that they’re able to communicate with their friends is just a bonus. My daughter was the only one that’s ever “tested” us on this. We were on vacation shopping at the Gurnee Mills mall. She was 15 and brought one of her friends with her. While they were shopping on their own, she was on the phone with another friend and decided to let my call go to voice mail. I took her phone for a month and she spent the rest of the vacation within our eyesight, even at Six Flags. Lesson learned, mom and dad are priority one.

There was always a nanosecond. "Nano" is just a prefix denoting a factor of 10^-9. I'm sorry, I don't really understand what your analogy is referring to.

So, you're saying responsible adults don't allow their kids to do dumb things because it affects their future? I agree. Except with the freedom part.

Very good comparison! I necked right out in front of our house, under the street lamp! My mom would come out and get me, I think my dad would have followed if I didn't come in quickly! I didn't sneak around, I didn't know I could! But today is a different kind of day in this world.

I guess one thing that concerns me is that, if you keep your kids under these kinds of restrictions, like tracking their cell phones, when they finally do break free they are going to go nuts with all the things they were never allowed to do. My dad would let me drink at home with my family when I was 16. I tried to offer my 15 year old niece a SIP of wine and my entire family flipped out. I feel that my sister keeps her on such a tight leash that when she does go away to college she will not know what to do. Allowing your kids some freedom without constantly keeping tabs on them gets some of that stuff out of their system. The kids I know who were in families like that are the kids that get to college and just go insane. My dad let me do pretty much anything without any kind of tracking device so when I got to college all of that stuff was already out of my system. So while my friends who have to still lie to their parents about what theyre doing are out getting wasted, I'm at home doing homework.

Did anyone hear about that school (I think in PA) that lent out laptops to students and later the parents found out that there were hidden cameras in them to track the students and anyone that might be stealing or doing something bad with them. These parents were totally outraged that their kids didn't have privacy. How is tracking your kids with a phone any different?

I saw this recently and was so thought provoking; to me it related to this thread that has no end nor final answer.

KAHLIL GIBRAN -
CHILDREN AND A WOMAN WHO HELD A BABE AGAINST HER BOSOM SAID, "SPEAK TO US OF CHILDREN." AND HE SAID:

"YOUR CHILDREN ARE NOT YOUR CHILDREN. THEY ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF LIFE'S LONGING FOR ITSELF. THEY COME THROUGH YOU BUT NOT FROM YOU, AND THOUGH THEY ARE WITH YOU, YET THEY BELONG NOT TO YOU.

YOU MAY GIVE THEM YOUR LOVE BUT NOT YOUR THOUGHTS. FOR THEY HAVE THEIR OWN THOUGHTS. YOU MAY HOUSE THEIR BODIES BUT NOT THEIR SOULS, FOR THEIR SOULS DWELL IN THE HOUSE OF TOMORROW, WHICH YOU CANNOT VISIT, NOT EVEN IN YOUR DREAMS.

YOU MAY STRIVE TO BE LIKE THEM, BUT SEEK NOT TO MAKE THEM LIKE YOU. FOR LIFE GOES NOT BACKWARD NOR TARRIES WITH YESTERDAY. YOU ARE THE BOWS FROM WHICH YOUR CHILDREN AS LIVING ARROWS ARE SENT FORTH. THE ARCHER SEES THE MARK UPON THE PATH OF THE INFINITE, AND HE BENDS YOU WITH HIS MIGHT THAT HIS ARROWS MAY GO SWIFT AND FAR.

LET YOUR BENDING IN THE ARCHER'S HAND BE FOR GLADNESS; FOR EVEN AS HE LOVES THE ARROW THAT FLIES, SO HE LOVES ALSO THE BOW THAT IS STABLE."

Pasted from <http://antwonefisher.net/home/contactme.php>

See reply #88 --Parents do care, it's difficult to do what is just right for each child.

Are you really unable to see the difference between a parent keeping track of their underaged child, with or without their knowledge and an outside third party watching them? One is parenting, one is stalking.

On that note I shall bid this thread adieu.

Are you really unable to see that your children don't need consistent tracking? I'm not insulting you, so don't insult me. I think your beliefs on this subject are completely asinine but I haven't attacked you. I hope this thread gets locked now that you mention it. I'll raise my children however I want and so will you so don't you ever tell me that I don't understand aspects about raising my children. I thought everyone was pretty respectful until that.

This is thought provoking to me when referring to children.

KAHLIL GIBRAN -

CHILDREN AND A WOMAN WHO HELD A BABE AGAINST HER BOSOM SAID,
"SPEAK TO US OF CHILDREN." AND HE SAID:

"YOUR CHILDREN ARE NOT YOUR CHILDREN.
THEY ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF LIFE'S LONGING FOR ITSELF.
THEY COME THROUGH YOU BUT NOT FROM YOU,
AND THOUGH THEY ARE WITH YOU, YET THEY BELONG NOT TO YOU.

YOU MAY GIVE THEM YOUR LOVE BUT NOT YOUR THOUGHTS.
FOR THEY HAVE THEIR OWN THOUGHTS.
YOU MAY HOUSE THEIR BODIES BUT NOT THEIR SOULS,
FOR THEIR SOULS DWELL IN THE HOUSE OF TOMORROW,
WHICH YOU CANNOT VISIT, NOT EVEN IN YOUR DREAMS.

YOU MAY STRIVE TO BE LIKE THEM, BUT SEEK NOT TO MAKE THEM LIKE YOU.
FOR LIFE GOES NOT BACKWARD NOR TARRIES WITH YESTERDAY.
YOU ARE THE BOWS FROM WHICH YOUR CHILDREN AS LIVING ARROWS ARE SENT FORTH.
THE ARCHER SEES THE MARK UPON THE PATH OF THE INFINITE,
AND HE BENDS YOU WITH HIS MIGHT THAT HIS ARROWS MAY GO SWIFT AND FAR.

LET YOUR BENDING IN THE ARCHER'S HAND BE FOR GLADNESS;
FOR EVEN AS HE LOVES THE ARROW THAT FLIES,
SO HE LOVES ALSO THE BOW THAT IS STABLE."

I am sorry this thread suddenly went south because I read through it all and was really interested in the discussion. I hope you see my post Saluki because I want to thank you for the thread. I really enjoyed reading the link you posted and felt relieved that I am not a helicopter mom. In part because I have been too sick and self absorbed to do much more than basic parenting but also because I have always had an issue with over stimulating and pushing kids with too much organized activity.

I totally get what you are saying about kids going wild if over restricted. I try to find the middle ground but it is tough sometimes. Even though he is 16 in so many ways he will always be my little boy who needs me to take care of him. Time goes so quickly it is hard for me to make the adjustments as he becomes an adult.

I do remember being a teenager but I wasn't a typical teenager nor did I live a typical teenage life. My mother was injured in an accident when I was 12 and from that time on I became the chief cook, bottle washer and person responsible for the comings and goings of my year younger sister. I had an older brother but in those days boys weren't expected to pitch in on house chores. By the time I was 15 everyone but my mom and me had moved out and my mom was in the hospital more than she was home so I was home alone raising myself. Before my sister left she was a handful. She would sneak out and get into cars with guys much older than her and skip school etc etc and if our dad found out I would be in as much trouble as she was. She used to like to hang with her friends at a coffee shop up town but I never could figure out the attraction. More often than not I would be there dragging her out before dad got home.

Looking back I feel like I didn't really have a teen life. I had to grow up so fast that I lost most of my friends because 'I got too serious'. Even when I had the house to myself I never invited kids over or did anything I wouldn't have done with a parent around. The worst I did was skip school now and then to come home and watch a soap opera. lol.

Basically I didn't have a rebellious bone in my body. I was my father's daughter I was as tough on my sister as my dad. I was as self righteous and rules oriented as my dad. I guess I tried to win his approval and love by being responsible and as perfect to perfect as I could be. In the end it wasn't worth diddly because he did the ultimate betrayal when he abandoned me and my mom to take up with another woman when I was 15.

Sorry.... I digress... back on topic.... Back to the question of parenting with freedom.... I find myself unsure of the line as I try to parent a teenager having no experience of being one myself. I don't know what this issue with privacy is all about. I lean toward the view that he has no real privacy while he is under my roof. If I have reason for concern I will snoop at anything without feeling like I am violating his privacy. We don't lock doors in our house and nobody has any secret passwords. That I know about. lol. Funny how rules go.... no absolutes.

I would not put a tracker on him though. When he was young enough for me to worry about an abduction then he wouldn't be without adult supervision. I did loose him a couple of times and man oh man that was scary and a tracker on his clothes would have been a good idea but that is not what we are talking about. My son would have been a perfect candidate for a harness if I didn't think they were degrading for children. Man could that kid disappear fast.

We are talking about tracking teenagers and I think the idea is over the top. If parents do it because they don't trust the kid then tracking isn't going to fix that. Something else has broken down between them that is far more concerning. They need to communicate and know thier kid rather than spy on their activities 24/7. If parents do it for safety reasons that's different and I can relate but I have come to conclude for myself that I can get carried away with safety concerns some times. I came to think that I would deny my son valuable learning about personal safety if I was always protecting him. Instead I taught him how to respond to dangerous situations and I have learned to trust him to use those skills as required. I can't prevent danger in his life but i can prepare him to respond in dangerous situations. We don't even have cell phones. I hate them. But if I need one for an emergency then there is bound to be someone around who does and if I or my son needs one its just an ask away.

When my son moved from the elementary school across the street to busing to highschool I bought 2 cell phones just to settle my own separation anxiety. It wasn't long before both phones were in a drawer. Between him downloading expensive apps, texting in class, forgetting it in a locker, loosing the power charger and me realizing the school had free phones for students to use they became more of a bother than anything. An expensive bother but a good lesson in letting go. I may buy a phone again when he starts to drive. It will be left in the vehicle and restricted to emergency use and calling home. If I think I need to track where he goes then he won't be using the vehicle. We will be resolving our trust issues first.

If my son decides to sneak out at night.... well good luck since my insomnia is totally unpredictable.... but if he were to break the rules and sneak out I need to know he has the skills and wisdom to not walk into trouble. I think as parents we need to prepare our children to survive rule breaking. I taught my son how to cross the busy road to his elementary school from day one even though the rule was to always use the overpass walkway. I knew there would be times that he would fall to the temptation to dash across the street instead of going all the way around over the walkway. I needed to know he would survive breaking the rule. He knew the rule and the conseqences if caught but I couldn't trust that he would never break the rule so I needed to know he would be safe either way.

I think I try to treat my son more and more like an adult as the days go by now that he is 16. Giving more responsibility and giving him more privileges with strings. Holding him to account for the conseqences of his choices both short and long term. I ask him what he thinks the appropriate discipline might be for this or that. I ask him how he would handle a particular situation. I pick his brain a lot to see how he thinks things through to get a sense of how well he can manage situations he will face on his own. I regress to treating him like a kid sometimes but less and less as time goes by.

While my son has shared a short glass of wine with a festive dinner and sipped on a cooler while camping I am pretty strict when it comes to underage drinking. I am grateful he prefers to have his friends over to play video games and not attend teen drinking parties. He says he wants to go but doesn't because he knows I don't want him to go. So long as he is in agreement with the boundry we are good but one day he may decide he wants to be out partying and hanging with friends instead of staying home playing games with real or online buddies. Just not sure how I will deal with it because there is a part of me that worries that if I am too restrictive then when he finally is on his own he will get carried away. I hope when the time comes I will still have the communication with my son to be able to determine the right action together. I think parenting a teenager is a team effort. I can't impose as much on him as I could when he was a child. I need him to buy in to the boundaries. Otherwise I figure the boundary is useless and I would revert to tracking his every move to be one step ahead. Sounds horrible.

My children are not smothered, they taste wine they stay up late they play out with friends they go for sleep overs etc....

My eldest son goes to night clubs gets drunk has a driving licence (no car as he cant afford the ins from crashing it too many times). We talk about sex openly in the house with the older children.....

My concern is if one of them was taken then I could find them in minutes via a chip NOT a cell phone.

I stand by what I have said in past posts and agree with AAAAA on her threads too.

Its not smothering its mothering two different things.

I have not knocked anyone for decideding NOT to chip a child but feel as though I have to defend myself from being called an over protective parent.

Yes I know no one has said 'Tishie I feel you are doing this or that with your child because you want to chip them' however the inference is certainly there.

Before I had children I was a great believer in teaching them the word NO, I had decided I will not have plug socket covers or a cover for the video machine or locks on doors. That my children will sit with a seat belt and wont argue with me.

All that went out the window when I actually had children as you never know how you are going to be with them until you have them.

As for 'your thoughts on this are completely asinine but I havent attacked you' is a very contradictory statement. On one hand you are attacking on the other you are denying doing so.

I'm just not quite convinced that, concerning the matter of tracking devices, the pros outweigh the cons.

Pros: Peace of mind for parents and government spies. Possible (but unlikely) deterrent of abduction of children. Helps find your lost phone. Possible (but unlikely) deterrent of runaway kids and of sneaking out. Spying on a spouse, or anyone else.

Cons: Costly. (The Verizon "Family stalker" costs about $10 a month.) Unreliable (often inaccurately receives the location as being several miles away from where the person actually is). Possible aid in abduction of children. Helps criminals find your lost phone. Being spied on by a spouse, or anyone else. Negative reaction from the teens and spouses being spied on. Possible gateway for Orwellian dystopia.

Actually, you can't really spy on anyone with this technology. Not even your kids. The phone that's being tracked will display a message when someone tries to locate it.

If you really want to stop child molesters, eliminate protective custody for child sex offenders in federal prisons. Then run a documentary of "The Life of Chesters" on MTV and NatGeo.

But, seriously, how do the teenagers feel about this? I know there have been some assumptions on this thread, but how have the teenagers themselves reacted to this new technology?

Good question Myers. I just asked my son. First he said he wouldn't care and then he said he would just figure out a way to disarm it if he wanted to hide where he was. I said that would cost him access to the phone and he said he wouldn't care because he'd rather show me that I can't get away with spying on him. When I asked about it being useful for safety reasons he just laughed because he is 6 feet tall and 200 plus pounds and of course thinks he is amune to trouble. He thinks most teens wouldn't like it because they do things they don't want their parents to know about. He thinks they would figure out a way to outwit their parents anyways so its kind of silly.

My post is back on # 88, wonder where this will go? I know, I'll put a tracking device on it!

You are really good and analytical! Very educated I take it; a man of the world type of education too! Is there a place to post this on PC for kids? Interesting idea.