What Would You Do?

I feel like none of us know how to break the cycle of dysfunction.

My mom was very controlling and I broke that cycle by going to the university that was the farthest away from home then joining the military only to marry a man who is also controlling like my mom to some extent. For all of us, the control feels anxious, defensive, and/or reactive.

Also, there is the issue of money. You know how emotional that can be. Whenever I work, I save nothing and give at least 50 percent of my earnings to our son, spend the rest on groceries while my husband is a supersaver (in his own account) and focussed on retirement (he is 62). Yes, separation is needed. I feel like I need to find a better paying job just so I can provide my son with a cash infusion big enough to allow him more seperation but hesitant because he has wasted so much money already.

I am just struggling today. These are my feelings, not my husband's or son's. Money is not an issue. I can ask my husband if I need money and it is legitimate. There are reasons to believe if I am just patient, things are moving in the right direction. I should just remove this entire thread! Once again, I am talking about other people in my family.

Hang in there. Some days are harder than others. I hope things do keep moving in the right direction for you.

Why do you feel the need to make more money for your son?

He is homeless. He refuses to get any kind of community help because he thinks it is unhealthy/dangerous to be around homeless people. I do order him food alot. My husband/his father knows this now. His fathers position is that either he needs to get mental health treatment (which he will pay for) or if there is nothing wrong with him then he should be able to help himself. He is willing to help him financially but only when he is making good decisions.

I had a moment today of reflecting upon this thread during one part of my drive out this morning. Typically there's a difference in the eye gaze between my region and my observation around Hollywood last year. Not today, not after this cold snap.

The thing about your son as I see it, is the help is there if only there's a willingness to change. Would your son snap to attention if you weren't giving him money?

I'm left wondering about willful stubbornness.

His dad would agree.

Me too. I feel like I am too emotionally enmeshed in the situation to objectively evaluate and I don't want to go into all of the details of what is going on here. Thanks for your thoughts.

Today is the anniversary of when I kicked my son out. (I have not talked about the details of the third time he was kicked out--I did it, not my husband). He has been homeless for an entire year. I am not trying to get sympathy for this. It was something I needed to do because his behavior that day was unacceptable. Everyone (my husband, FOO and therapist) told me I did the right thing but I cried and cried after I did it. I gave my son mixed messages that I should not have given him.

I talk to my son everyday. Still feed him, etc. I tell my husband everything about what is going on with him. My husband is a good father, I would blame him for not being perfect and for getting aggravated at my son and me but we both tested him and his love all of the time.

I finally see better where I need to set boundaries with my son. He has charmed me his whole life to get what he wants. I still love him very, very much. That I let him get away with so much was not good but I see that now and I pray that through love and by staying united with my husband, we can work together to someday get our son on a better path.

Yesterday I talked to my son about the "anniversary", I said I was sorry about the manner in which I did it (I was hysterical) wishing I had just calmly kicked him out; however, what he did that day was wrong and the decision was right. Lately, because my boundaries are clearer with my son, he looks at me differently (his expressions have actuallly changed for the better) and doesn't try to "pull the wool over my eyes" as much. I want to help him always and he knows it.

When I told my H these observations yesterday, he immediately thought I was blaming us for being bad parents. That was not the point I was trying to make. I am trying to do what I should have done long ago but didn't recognize needed to be done. During that conversation yesterday I did not talk about long past events (I was only focussing on the conversation with our son) but that my husband kicked our son out suddenly when he was 18 (he is now 24) and that my son was on his own (with our daughter) for one and a half years with me not confronting my husband over it (tried but he did not listen so I was seeing the kids behind his back) made it harder for me to see the big picture. I was so depressed over what had happened when I should have been helping them more. Sadly, though we were good to our children when they were young we ruined their transition into adulthood. I acknowledge this to our children but my husband does not. My children feel wronged and it is not without merit. My family might always be broken if he doesn't acknowledge their feelings. Our children's feelings are just as valid as my husbands. This is my POV.

Actually, thinking back, I was not hysterical. I was afraid of my son and preserving myself first and not him. I was impulsive though and in my extreme anxiety I immediately did what my thoughts first told me to do.

Shortly after the event, my son gave me a copy of the book Frankenstein saying I treated him just like Frankenstein was treated. I would read the book and cry thinking there were parallels. I am not a very good or strong mom.

Though 'they' say adolescence ends at 24, I truly believe that it takes two to tango and that though teenagers into young adult are the responsibility of parents by what the law says, kids do form into their own people during these years and frankly, they do play a part in the functioning or non functioning of the family structure. And it could very well be a first world guilt trip on parents? Teens rebel against parents everyday and in almost every home. Whether big or small rebellions, is unique to each family unit.

Soooo...stop beating yourself up. There's more at play than just parenting. How fortunate for those that rarely struggled with their older child. Good for them. Don't let their judgement hang like a rainy day cloud over your head. Kids fail well intentioned parents every day. Kids squander the land of opportunity every single day. You've done your best. You've done what you've felt right in your heart.

My only suggestion is to stop accepting their blame of you. They've played their parts.

I was feeling depressed yesterday and when I am depressed, I blame everything on myself. I have gotten better at figuring out when my son is unfairly blaming us and playing me. I am available to speak to him once a day (either I call him or vice versa). When he calls multiple times a day, I do not answer anymore--of course he can leave a message and if it is something that truly has to be dealt with immediately--I will drop everything and go. My therapist has said we are too enmeshed. I cannot speak for my son (kids do not tell their parents everything nor should they) but, yes, I am too enmeshed. I am immature (not being over critical of myself--just an observation that fits).

Thanks for alll your wise encouragement Healing!

My son enjoys laughing at me after he has made me upset. It is only when I am on my antidepressant that I am able to see it more quickly and can walk away earlier. When I have told my T stories about situations where he has laughed at me, she has said, "He has contempt for you," but I don't hold it against my son because I think there is something wrong with him. I love him anyways; he has no one but me.

When I spoke to him yesterday, he said he only had $5 left on his grocery gift card (and hadn't eaten yesterday) so we agreed to meet for breakfast today. I was also going to buy him another grocery store card after breakfast. My daughter wanted to go so I said, "Yes." I thought it was good for the three of us to eat together and support each other. When I let my son know she was coming, he said, "I will only eat with you if she agrees to eat kosher" (no meat/eggs and cheese together--he has never been to a Synogogue, we are not Jewish). My daughter is the type who refuses to be controlled and it is reasonable for her to be able to order what she wants. Anyways, it was obvious that breakfast would have been a disaster. I can tell when being with my son will be torturous. I met him at the close grocery store (it is a more expensive one) and just got him $25 in cash. He kept trying to employ tactics to keep me from leaving plus argued why it was wrong for me to want to bring his sister. His sister is a strong willed person who refuses to take his bs.

When I finally walked away with him still insisting I stay in the meat dept of the store he was laughing at me and discussing my mental illness issues in front of the cashier. I am not that embarrassed for her to know; the issue is his disrespect. A part of me felt like I shouldn't give him the money but in the past, he seems to get really crazy when he goes without eating. He has no job. Lives in a tent. Etc. I know I feed him in order to soothe my own conscience but there have been periods of time where I have let him go hungry. The hunger did not change his behavior and he became completely pitiful.

I still talk with my son daily and try to eat with him once a week (lately, I see if his father will go instead). My husband and I still hope and pray that he will see he needs help. We can only help if we stay in touch. I have not wanted to be specific about my son's problems but want people to understand that both his dad and I have really tried to support him. The problem is either I spoiled him (I was spoiled so that seemed normal to me. ) or he has a serious mental issue. I really do not know for sure.

The above post was a good last post. Sort of wanted to set the record straight about my son. On many occassions, I didn't admit how bad he treated me and all of my reactions to it. Raising children can be heartbreaking. Accounts fade into the background a bit when you delete them. That is what I want right now. Trying to work more though I feel guilty about that with what happened with my children. Not proud. Still trying to make amends, am taking my medication and hope that by working, I am being a better example for my children. I have been working more closely with my husband which will hopefully help. Maybe some of my posts might help someone dealing with something similiar. Moving on. Hoping that my family has a "win" soon. (Reallly don't like the username Nowinners.) Wish everyone the best.

What does he do with his day?

Mostly goes to the library and reads. When he is willing to go to counseling and goes for a while plus shows some more positive changes--he might be able to return home. I am going to lean on my husband to help decide this. He won't admit anything is wrong with him but something is. Perhaps it is simply his attitude.

Miguel's Mom--I am taking all my medications (four of them) and now realize that coorperatively working with my PDoc and T is necessary for me. My paranoia of my husband and noncooperation with him was one of the things that caused my family's tragedy. Now my children aren't always very cooperative and that has hurt their transition to independence. I now preach the importance of cooperation to them. I think I am a lot better.

I am getting really involved in my VIPKids certification and am finding that that can be what consumes me rather than PC. I made a request to delete my account. I am ready to move on. I read your posts and many others. I learned from you. I like you and hope things get better for you. I will say a prayer for the people of PC that helped me now and then. So glad I came back a third time.

Could you get him into a day program? frame it as somewhere to go and meet new people...

I was taught from a young age not to trust the mental health system. My parent's threatened therapy and hospitalization more times than I can remember. I currently mistrust my husband because my issues aren't bleeding out to other areas. I'm trying to trust. Hopefully it'll come easier to my son. Thanks for giving me hope it can get better. Good luck and we're here for you when you need us

Thanks for your suggestions. Yes, during the past year, when our son exhibitted some odd behaviors, we did asked the police if he could be Baker Acted (committed for observation). The police advised to let them arrest him for trespassing instead (we declined). They thought he had an attitude problem, not a mental problem. It is actually hard to have this done once someone turns 18 unless you can show they are dangerous to themselves or others. My POV is that our son is usually a gentle, compassionate person. Sadly, he might be suffering from PTSD (which might start other things/"flip switches --don't feel qualified to diagnose) from my husband's "tough love" approach and my mental issues drama. I think when I was the one that kicked him out that that was really heartbreaking for him. It is hard to feel so rejected and abandoned. Also being homeless has caused him a lot of trauma. {We have ruined his life (I shouldn't think like this because my son also played a big role though we did make mistakes but we did a lot of good things for him too).} I will take whatever medications I have to take to calm my anxiety enough to deal with the mess we caused. I won't give up on him. My husband/his dad is not giving up either but his approach is much different than mine. It is still a tough situation because we view it so differently.

I remember how when I went inpatient voluntarily (but would have been sent involutarily if I hadn't volunteered)---I was terrified my rights/free will would be taken away. Our son does mistrust us because of this. Thanks for your reply.

I have admitted my part in the tragedy but of course it is more complicated than that. We all played a role and learning to work together is a work in progress. It could get messy and I don't want to spill anymore details about it on here. Things change. It's a roller coaster. Some of the things said to each other and in therapy should be private. I do not know how it will turn out but don't want to be tempted to give a "blow by blow" of the drama as it occurs.

Tisha, thanks for your hug. I will always be grateful for all the encouragement you consistently gave me.