[seesaw]

I posted this in the disability section but I think this is the more appropriate place for it.

So, I finally got fed up and decided to sue my HOA for discrimination. I'm on disability for major depression, PTSD, and panic disorder with agoraphobia. I have a service dog that performs tasks to help mitigate my symptoms so I can go out and live (or try to live) a normal life. Recently I had to get another service dog to help with mobility issues caused by my medications (first service dog isn't big enough) and also to help the other service dog, who is getting older and having trouble being on point 24/7.

Okay, so let me make something clear for those that don't know anything about service dogs: it is absolutely legal for you to have two, the Americans with Disabilities Act and Fair Housing Act do not limit the number of service dogs you can have. Also, based on these laws, you cannot evict or refuse someone housing because of the size or breed of their service dog (there are a couple of special cases having to do with liability insurance but they are few and far between).

So, I'll summarize why I'm suing. When I first moved in, I gave them all of Astro's paperwork. Letters from my doctors saying I need a service dog and a letter from our professional dog trainer who certified that he is a task-trained service dog. I had already been given a second letter from my doctors to get another service dog (in training) and also allowing the 2nd dog as an emotional support animal. I gave that documentation to the Home Owner's Association before I brought YaYa home.

Even though the law is clearly (and I mean crystal clearly) on my side, the HOA board president told my landlord not to rent to me because of my service dogs (clear violation of the ADA and FHA), she has followed me around when I'm walking one of my dogs, and she denied me a resident interview that is required of all tenants and residents because they want to wait to hear from their attorney about my service dogs (again, clear discrimination--if they wouldn't do that to someone without a disability, then they can't do it to someone who has a disability.

Anyways, I don't want to argue law with anyone so please don't get into a law argument with me. I know the ADA and FHA inside and out (owning a service dog, I have to) and the HOA is in clear violation.

I reached the end of my rope when, even though they had 5 letters from my doctors stating, yes, I need a service dog, and yes, I need two, they wanted me to fill out a form that asked all the questions already provided in my letters. I was like, sigh, fine, okay, if this will get this done with, then I'll do it. Well I spilled water on the form, and my doctor and I discussed the form and he asked me just to get a clean copy of the form. So I ask the property manager for another copy and she says, oh you don't have to fill that out, the attorney is going to contact you. So what happens? I get a letter from the attorney asking me to fill out the exact same form!

And that's when I was done. I was trying to do exactly what they wanted but they wouldn't even give me the form that they wanted me to fill out anyways. And then they denied me a resident interview. The told me I wasn't a tenant there even though I had been paying utilities since January (this started in April). The board president discusses my case and disability with other residents, which is illegal because my documentation is supposed to be confidential. Then she outright discriminated by trying to get me denied as a tenant from my landlord when she asked him to not rent to me because of my service dogs.

So I'm in it for the long haul. I am not normally litigious, but I can't describe what it feels like to not be able to enjoy your own home because you're afraid someone is going to be following you every time you go to walk your dog. Or feeling like I have to explain to every person who comes up to pet my dog why my dogs are bigger than the HOA's rules allow. I shouldn't have to broadcast my personal information.

So I'll be posting regular updates on my case here. Thank you all for your ongoing support as I go through this trial and tribulation.

Seesaw

[Moogieotter]

Seesaw,

You're Awesome!

moogs

[seesaw]

Update: So I got the complaint from the county today. I need them to add a couple of things, but as soon as they do, I sign it and the investigation begins. I think the first thing that happens is that we go through mediation to see if a settlement can be reached, and if it can't, then the investigation goes full tilt and if it's found against the HOA, then they will be fined and possibly some restitution will be assigned. I think at that point I can file a civil suit and request damages. Not to be catty, but I have so much evidence against them at this point and so many witnesses that I will own this complex by the time I'm done. I'm not letting this go.

Seesaw

[where_to_begin]

Seesaw,

I admire you for standing up for yourself in this very difficult situation.

[(JD)]

I understand completely...

I have had to let many things "go" without a fight because I just can't do it on my own... go for it while you can. pat your doggies on the head for me

(I lost my Caleb Feb 2014 and have been trying to train my current doggie myself... though I know how, it's so much energy and I cannot get a trainer because the vet won't give him his vaccinations for fear it will kill him (maybe in Sept.) so I have to try and groom him AND train him and quite frankly I cannot... AND to try and fight for a wheelchair van and new motorized wheelchair.. fighting my own lawyer and the carrier's at that!... and all of life...

well... I did fight the HOA many years ago and won...and got all my money back too...so good wishes... pace yourself, remember they may demand things "right away' when really it can wait a bit while you gather your thoughts.

[seesaw]

Thanks, JD.

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[jaynedough]

Hi SeeSaw. Sounds like you've got everything under control! You are such a strong person!

I apologize if this is an ignorant question.... I was wondering if your dogs wear anything that identifies them as service dogs? I know you can buy some identifiers from Amazon, though I'm not sure how legal they are.

The woman following you made me think of Gladys Kravitz, the nosy neighbor on Bewitched.

[seesaw]

Update:

So the case has been assigned to a mediator and a separate investigator. The mediator will try to get us to reconcile while the investigator investigates the claim to see if there has been any discrimination.

I've been back and forth with the mediator a few times. I think the HOA and their attorneys are starting to realize they are out of line because last week I receive a proposal demanding that, for them to approve my dogs, they SIMPLY want a 10 minute interview to assess the skills of both of my dogs and a 3 minute phone call with my provider. It's not simple, as they put it, because those requests are not allowed by them under the Federal Fair Housing Act.

I denied that request stating that a) they aren't allowed those requests per the FHA and b) asking my dog to perform his skills out of context messes with his training and can screw up him performing them when he actually has to and c) my second dog is only an ESA, d) they never requested those things of other residents with ESAs.

I think they have wised up a bit and realized the position they are in because today they came back offering to approve my dogs before 5pm today (although they didn't contact me until 3:30pm, so that only left me an hour after talking to the mediator for 30 minutes). Their offer was that if I gave them information as to my what my disability is and what tasks my dogs perform, that they would approve the dogs. Now that might seem great, but they already know both of those answers per the letters from the doctor that I have given them. Furthermore, I gave them that information but the FHA doesn't even allow them to know that much. All they are allowed to know is if I have a disability and is the dog to alleviate symptoms of the disability. So even though it would be great to do this quickly, I can't with good conscience just give them this info because it means the next person is going to be expected to disclose their disability when by law they don't have to.

To answer jaynedough's question: when out in public, yes, my dogs are vested. One has a vest that says service dog and please don't pet me, I'm working. While the other's says service dog in training. They are perfectly legal to buy one off of Amazon, it just doesn't mean your dog is a service dog, lol. But we don't wear the vests when I'm just taking them for a walk, because on their twice daily walks, that's their time, to be off duty, to be dogs, to stop and sniff, to sniff other dogs, say hi to the neighbors, you know, just be dogs. Service dogs can't be on ALL the time. In fact, that's why I have 2, because my older one is slowing down and in a couple of years he won't be able to work round the clock like he does now.

Further update: My demands per settlement have been for required training and education in the ADA and FHA regarding disabilities and service dogs for the entire board, that the board president step down (as she has been the one committing the majority of the discrimination), that they replace the property manager, as her ignorance has resulted in discrimination against me, that they create a new form for a request for a reasonable accommodation of a service dog, since their current one primarily asks questions they aren't legally allowed to ask, and lastly, $300,000 in damages, based on what these cases normally settle for in court.

I know the damages is a pretty steep demand, but I had to start somewhere, and be serious about it, so I started where the last court case in Miami, Florida, settled. A woman in a similar situation as me was denied having her service dog by her HOA and they required an unreasonable amount of documentation, and the court found for her and awarded her $300,000 in damages. At the very least I'm demanding enough to move, cover my lease, which I will have to default on, with my current landlord, and cover the increased rent I will have to pay since I'll have to move into less affordable housing than I'm in now (cover the increase for two years). I'm thinking what I'll realistically come down to is around $40,000.

Sorry I have updated more regularly, hope y'all enjoy the drama of this update.

Oh, and moogieotter is organizing a parade of giant breed dogs for us to do around my HOA complex once my case ends so we can piss all the neighbors off. Bwahahahaaha.

Seesaw

[eeyorestail]

I think you are doing the right thing. It may be tempting to just give in to their (illegal) demands to make them go away and leave you alone. But I agree with you that they (and others) will never learn if you fold.

This can't be easy and I applaud your bravery!

[seesaw]

Thanks, Krminnj.

Today I responded to their latest request, modified the questions to what I believed was legal, and answered them to the best of my ability. Hopefully now they will accept that and approve my dogs, although I will continue to press the claim regarding the discrimination.

Seesaw

[seesaw]

UPDATE:

My ESA was finally approved, and they acknowledged that my service dog had already been approved. We continue on to mediation, which has been scheduled for tomorrow, and hopefully this is the day when I get some justice for the discrimination and pain and stress they've put me through. I'm not leaving without taking them to the bank, because they will just do it to someone else if they don't have to open up their wallets to pay for the discrimination they've blatantly engaged in.

Seesaw

[cakeladie]

I think you are awesome. A lot of people would have given up I gave up but I was really to sick to fight and going through chemo at the time.

Has for taking them to the bank you need to. It's the only way to get it through their heads that they can not do this or they will do this to someone else.

Good luck and I look forward to your update.

[seesaw]

Thanks to all for their support.

[eeyorestail]

I really hope they get what's coming to them. People need to learn they can't get away with this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[(JD)]

It's good to hear your emotional support animal is going to working out for you. I do caution though to not call it a service dog, as yet that is not the case. (Perhaps in the future ESAs will be included in that terminology?)

I have had a service dog (well, on my 3rd now) since 1994... yet the judge refused my request for the disability insurance to pay for the costs of keeping it. I could spit nails but then... it's back to the drawing board again, and when I get the energy to bolster my MD back up to present it again. (She was miffed because my attorney did not call her for the trial to testify for me and the need/use of my service dog!)

Good wishes.

[seesaw]

I'd, you misunderstand. I have both a service dog and an ESA, separate animals. So yes, my SD is an SD. I know all the laws and know what my dogs are and aren't. But thank you for your support.

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[(JD)]

Kewl... didn't mean to upset you... I really think that any dog specially trained to assist someone who is disabled, be that physically, emotionally, psychologically or all, should receive special privileges.

Of course, nowdays there are tons of people who are ruining it for us, aren't there? Claiming their cutesy pocketbook dog is specially trained just so they can carry him about.

There's no national rules... but there are State expectations. Since there's no basic certifications required, it's good that the ADA has a few limiting declarations, imo.

My service dogs have always done double duty for me...and of course weren't taught how to respond to the emotional or pain, stress driven aspects of my disabilities.

Most trainers though will say that unless your service dog is over 10 yo, not to have another dog in the home. Wonder if this is an old wive's tale upon which their opinion is based?

[cakeladie]

Kwel I so wish I was more like you and stood up for myself.

JD you are so right when you said so many people have ruined for the ones who really do need the extra help of a service animal.

[seesaw]

That's odd, JD, I have never heard a trainer say that about the dog's age and not having another dog in the house. I know numerous people, trainers included, who have multiple dogs, one of which is an SD, in the house.

Anyways, to all, we settled, I'm getting paid, and it's time to do the big dog parade around my complex. Get ready to dress up your dogs so we can piss the old biddies off before I move outta here!

Seesaw

[cakeladie]

Just wanted to say congratulations and good luck at your new place

This is awesome! You are an inspiration to all the rest of us! Thanks for posting! I love to hear people winning for a change. Blessings!