[slusa2020]

Hello All,
I have a few questions for those in the US who are on disability. If you've been through the process or understand it, I could use your input and advice.
I haven't been able to work. It's not necessarily that I can't find a rudimentary job, it's that I can't hold one. The symptoms of my bipolar get in the way 100% and it's gone.
How does SSDI work? I know you can try to work but will I get denied for trying in the past now that I'm applying? There was a significant mark when my work behaviour went from I could hold a job to when I couldn't.
Also, who fills out forms besides me and my family (that I'm currently living with)? Doctors, hospitals? Anyone know what those look like?
I have a lot of anxiety about this. I assume they want to not pay for any reason but I need the support. Advice or input would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards

[fishin fool]

Your Pdoc will have to fill out forms.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by slusa2020

Hello All,
I have a few questions for those in the US who are on disability. If you've been through the process or understand it, I could use your input and advice.
I haven't been able to work. It's not necessarily that I can't find a rudimentary job, it's that I can't hold one. The symptoms of my bipolar get in the way 100% and it's gone.
How does SSDI work? I know you can try to work but will I get denied for trying in the past now that I'm applying? There was a significant mark when my work behaviour went from I could hold a job to when I couldn't.
Also, who fills out forms besides me and my family (that I'm currently living with)? Doctors, hospitals? Anyone know what those look like?
I have a lot of anxiety about this. I assume they want to not pay for any reason but I need the support. Advice or input would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards

you file an application either online or through your nearest local Social security office. on your application you will have to list all your treatment providers, mental and medical problems and any treatments you are on and sign the release form giving social security permission to contact your treatment providers. sometimes they give you the doctors forms when you go in to file the application with your local social security office or send them to you or your treatment provider if doing the application process online.

then days to months later you receive a notice in the mail if they need more information and they would like you to see the treatment providers in the letter. the treatment providers they ask you to see are familiar with the SSDI process and specialize in what ever mental and physical health problems you placed in your application. for example you state your problem that prevents you from working is bipolar disorder. the specialist that social security asks you to go see is a psychiatrist who specializes in diagnosing and treating bipolar disorder

then after seeing the specialists (if that is needed) you wait again days, months and sometimes years while your application is processed, treatment providers are contacted and social security receives their information from your mental and physical health records and any specialists you saw send their reports to social security.

then one day in the mail you receive either an acceptance award letter saying you are now on SSDI or you receive a denial letter stating you did not get SSI/SSDI and why and information on how to appeal that decision.

yes you can refuse to give them permission for access to your doctors and medical \ mental health records and refuse to see what specialists they want you to go see, but with no actual documentation by treatment providers about you having bipolar so severe it prevents you from working social security will have no choice but to deny your application.

the best thing to do is give then all the information first time around that they need in order to have the process go in your favor.. the appeal process is extremely long and involves going to court in most cases to prove you are so disabled by your bipolar that you can not work,

after you are awarded a SSDI grant you continue to work with your treatment providers and continue to take care of your self secure in knowing once a month you receive an income (dont expect mega bucks. living on SSI\SSDI is poverty level/ minimum wage type of income), you will need to learn how to live on a strict budge so that you have enough money to make it month to month. SSI\SSDI also comes with foodstamps and state medical insurance plan (medicaid or medicare ) you may be asked to pay a co pay on any doctor appointments including things like meds therapy and any thing else medical/ mental that you may need. you pay the co pay by using some of your cash part of your SSI/SSDI money you get every month.

those that I know on SSI/SSDI say its not an easy or fun way to live sometimes they have to choose between getting that new coat, or new jeans or getting the medication that their states medical insurance does not pay for. going to a movie or getting more groceries because the food stamps didnt cover the special diet the doctor has the person on. eating in because of not enough money to eat out...

[BeyondtheRainbow]

There is a form you'll fill out that asks about how you do all sorts of daily things from dressing yourself to shopping to work etc. When you answer it emphasize how much trouble you have doing the things, not that you can do it. (ie, I can do this but must nap afterwards and need help to do most of it). A very similar form goes to a care provider (for me my therapist) and they fill it out the same way. The agency will also request medical records from anywhere you tell them you've been treated. In my case I had 2 hospitalizations in a few months just before I applied. I'm sure those helped me get approved. I also gave them information for my psychiatrist, family dr., asthma dr and then to be extra thorough I listed every dr. I had seen in the years I was allowed to submit (I think 10?).

[leejosepho]

I first applied by making an appointment at a local SSA office where someone asked a lot of questions and got things started, then I went to the SSA website and added a disability statement of my own. I had asked a couple of medical doctors and a psychiatrist about helping me, but had been told they do not do that. SSA next sent me to a medical doctor for a physical evaluation and to a psychologist for a mental evaluation and neither of those seemed to believe I qualified...and I was denied. It was at that point that I talked with an attorney who handles appeals, and he told me I had no chance. My overall stress, anxiety and depression landed me in a medical ICU a few weeks later, however, then my attorney suggested I quickly make an appeal before the 90-day period for doing so had expired. The judge who handled my appeal listened to my direct testimony at that hearing and became convinced I had made an honest effort to continue working just as long as I could but that I simply could not keep going because of my chronic, irreparable back trouble and slowly-failing vision having a debilitating impact upon my visual thinking.

Every situation is different and there is no cookie-cutter process offering any guaranteed outcome. A doctor might help you get started, but I would still suggest at least an initial consultation with a well-versed attorney experienced in handling SSDI cases.

[eyesclosed]

It's a good Idea to do the first application with a person who is in the government agency like your local SS office or check your County or state website for these free services. The function report and Work history are very important. Your medical facilities are not required by law to release them even though you will sign a medical release form. The hardest part is physical evidence with mental health because the Dr is only going by symptoms. This is the tip of the iceberg for SSDI on this issue facing them as more and more is added dsm and more meds being prescribed.

[Misssy2]

Originally Posted by slusa2020

Hello All,
I have a few questions for those in the US who are on disability. If you've been through the process or understand it, I could use your input and advice.
I haven't been able to work. It's not necessarily that I can't find a rudimentary job, it's that I can't hold one. The symptoms of my bipolar get in the way 100% and it's gone.
How does SSDI work? I know you can try to work but will I get denied for trying in the past now that I'm applying? There was a significant mark when my work behaviour went from I could hold a job to when I couldn't.
Also, who fills out forms besides me and my family (that I'm currently living with)? Doctors, hospitals? Anyone know what those look like?
I have a lot of anxiety about this. I assume they want to not pay for any reason but I need the support. Advice or input would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards

Hi...fill out the application.
The application will ask for work dates - thats ok, in order to qualify for SSDI you would be a worker that worked and suddenly stopped due to a mental illness or condition. I think it is even better that it shows you have had mutliple jobs (proof that something is going on with you).

After you fill out the application you can call the office and see if a DHS worker has been assigned to your case. This will be your "contact"

If you haven't seen a mental health recently...have you seen one? And within 2 years? they accept paperwork from 2 years back. If you haven't seen a mental health worker, start now and start telling this mental health work about the serious deterioration in your abilities to get along with others, keep your moods in check..etc. whatever symptoms you are having.

DO NOT WAIT for SSDI to contact any of your Drs for YOU. Get all copies of medical records that you think support your claim that you have Bipolar. If you have warnings from work...copy them...and send them in with your claim too.

If it is a fact that you are just going to start the SSDI journey and you are just starting with a mental health Dr. wait a couple visits with the new Dr. and when they "diagnose" you with Bipolar...ask if you can have a supporting document for your records that says you have bipolar.

There are also forms on line if you google SSDI Adult Function Forms and print some of those, have people close to you fill them out.

IF you have been seeing a Dr...after you get copies of all the above and an Adult Function Form at least filled out by yourself...then send all that to your "contact" at SSDI as soon as you can.

I'm sure everything you have read tells you that a high percentage of applications get denied at the initial level. This is true. Mine did.

Its an awful gut feeling to get the denial, but do not give up. If you can make visiting Drs your NEW JOB.

Usually, if denied at first step...most people I know get a lawyer for the Reconsideration stage. If your state has a reconsideration stage....if they don't there is another stage that you would see if a lawyer would take your case.

SSDI is a big waiting game. You can still try to work while in the process to make some money...it doesn't mean you are frauding SSDI, but the only downfall is you have to be really careful of what job you do...because when you apply for SSDI you are saying you can't do ANY job.

But, if you keep getting little short stints and losing them or quitting on a whim, this only supports your claim that you can not work and you will have MORE reasons why.

If you have no income..its very hard to fight this SSDI fight.
It can drag out or it can happen quickly. People who have good supporting documentation from Drs and get that information to the DHS office...have a better chance of approval

Also, the DHS has a graph they follow to determine eligibility. Age and education are a factor in their decision. Find the graph by searching something like SSDI eligibility checklist (sorry I'm bad with saving or remembering links).

[RainyDay107]

I have bipolar disorder, too. I applied online and was approved in three months.

It's important to list doctors, hospitals, any treatment you received. The government will obtain the records to examine your application.

My psychiatrist and therapist strongly felt I was no longer able to work and that was due to bipolar making me disabled. I know they were contacted and they submitted their opinion as to whether I was disabled ...

I don't know details but it seems very important to be undergoing regular treatment for your illness(es), as well as your treatment team believing you are disabled under SSDI guidelines.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by glamslam

My psychiatrist and therapist strongly felt I was no longer able to work and that was due to bipolar making me disabled. I know they were contacted and they submitted their opinion as to whether I was disabled ...

I don't know details but it seems very important to be undergoing regular treatment for your illness(es), as well as your treatment team believing you are disabled under SSDI guidelines.

I had virtually none of that and even the attorney handing my appeal had said I had no chance of being approved. But then after I had no transportation to the appeal hearing and it was re-scheduled, my case was reviewed by a different judge than I would have had and she listened to me.

[Rose76]

Hook up with a law firm that handles lots of disability cases. That's what I did and they helped me a great deal.

[lilypup]

I agree...get a lawyer. They will be honest about your case and what you need to do. I was approved in three months.

[Misssy2]

And go to the website I gave you in your Private Messages..they are a great help with this situation.

[Rose76]

slusa - If you say, "I can't work because I have bipolar disorder.", you will get nowhere. Some people with bipolar disorder have good jobs and make lots of money.

You have to give specific examples of how your frame of mind led to difficulties in the workplace. The SSA is particularly interested in whether or not you have had difficulties getting along with co-workers, supervisors or the customers of a business where you worked. They are interested in examples of you breaking down emotionally on the job. They are glad to see you have tried to work. What they need to see is that you failed on jobs because of emotional/psychological issues. They like to hear concrete examples.

Applicants often want to believe that they were good employees, but the stress was just too much for them. Wrong. The SSA will not let you have it both ways. If you were a good employee, then you should stay in the work force. You have to be prepared to paint an unflattering picture of yourself. It has to send the message that "I'm the kind of person that employers end up wanting to get rid of." Applicants often have a hard time embracing that description of themselves.

It's not that the SSA wants to find any excuse to not approve your application. That's a myth. But you have to provide them with a very good reason why they should view you as someone with a pattern of behavior that does not go over well on the job. Applicants make the following mistake: They want just stating a diagnosis to fill the bill. They think their doctor or therapist can somehow make the SSA understand the problem. Your doctor does not go to work with you. The SSA almost doesn't care very much what your diagnosis is, though you do have to have one. They care about knowing what is the behavior that is getting you into trouble on the job. And it can't be "I'm too depressed to get up and go to work."

I got approved in 3 months. The law firm I used was very helpful. They made sure the doctors and therapists and hospitals sent in relevant copies of notes in their records. They can do that better than you can, usually. Often, you cannot go around collecting this stuff on your own. Doctors don't have to let you see everything they've written down about you. Plus, the SSA must get records directly from the doctor or hospital. If you request copies of your records, receive them and then send them to the SSA, it's possible you could have tampered with the records. So the SSA must get these records mailed to them directly from the source. This is where the law firm is so valuable. The clerks at the attorney's office are able to keep track of what records the SSA has, or hasn't received.

It is the law clerks and paralegals, rather than the attorneys, who do most of the work . . . unless you have to go to a judicial hearing. No lawyer ever did ten minutes of work for me. It was the clerks who did it all . . . because I did not have to go for a hearing.

But you have to check on what the clerks are up to. I gave them a bunch of addresses (of psychiatrists in 3 different states) over the phone. When I checked the website of the law firm to read the info I they had, I saw that they did not take down all the addresses correctly. I had to call and insist they correct several mistakes . . . and then go back on the website to make sure they finally made the corrections.

They will send you to a psychiatrist whom they pay. When you go, don't bother telling the story of your life. Focus on how you failed to handle the jobs you worked at. Nobody likes to say, "I was a failure." But that is what you are asking the SSA to believe, so you better get comfortable with it. The pdoc they sent me to told me that she would try her best to help me get approved. That amazed me because I thought her real job was to look for reasons to invalidate me. She was one of the best docs I'ld ever talked to. I completely broke down sobbing talking to her of my difficulties at work. I hadn't planned that, but it worked in my favor. She saw that the nature of my job was making me an emotional wreck.

Your age counts for a lot. I was well over age 50. I had struggled for years and years in the workplace. They did not expect me to train for a new line of work. If you are relatively young, they may figure you just need to mature a bit more, or simply get training for a different line of work.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Applicants often want to believe that they were good employees, but the stress was just too much for them. Wrong. The SSA will not let you have it both ways. If you were a good employee, then you should stay in the work force. You have to be prepared to paint an unflattering picture of yourself. It has to send the message that "I'm the kind of person that employers end up wanting to get rid of." Applicants often have a hard time embracing that description of themselves.

Such a description would definitely not be true in my own case. I made it clear to the judge at my appeal hearing that I had tried my very best to keep working until 62 but simply could not make it. My issues were chronic back pain and partially-impaired vision affecting executive function (and I had very little medical documentation), and my employer had actually given me a raise to help make up for the difference as I reduced my hours over my last few months of gainful employment. Painting oneself as "Nobody wants me, please take care of me" might be what some people cry, but I left the work force with my dignity intact...and my employer still occasionally comes to me with a question or two as well as to maintain our friendship.

[Rose76]

Seeking SSDI on the basis of bipolar disorder is very different from seeking it due to back pain and impaired vision. But whatever your disability is, you have to convince the SSA that you can't hold a job. You don't have to claim that your employers hated you, or even dislike you. But you are claiming that you can't get the job done that you were hired to do. Furthermore you are claiming that moving to a different line of work is not a viable solution. The SSA has the right to ask, "Isn't there some kind of work you could do?" Your answer has to be, "No there isn't."

Some employers will even help an employee get SSDI by writing a letter saying that they believe you made a honest effort, but you were just not up to the demands of the job.

You don't have to cry, "Please take care of me." However, when you apply for SSDI, you are saying, "I can't support myself." You are saying that you can't fulfill the requirements of the job. You're either in too much pain, or you can't see what you're doing, or you are too exhausted or you are not emotionally keeping it together enough.

If you go to the SSA and say "I was a great employee who did wonderful work and my employer is thrilled to have me on the payroll," then the SSA is going to ask why you're even applying for disability.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Seeking SSDI on the basis of bipolar disorder is very different from seeking it due to back pain and impaired vision.

No, it would just be for a different reason or reasons...and my vision was not the problem, my problem was a significant reduction in executive function because of my being a bi-polar visual thinker on the autism spectrum.

Originally Posted by Rose76

But whatever your disability is, you have to convince the SSA that you can't hold a job...that you can't get the job done that you were hired to do...that moving to a different line of work is not a viable solution. The SSA has the right to ask, "Isn't there some kind of work you could do?" Your answer has to be, "No there isn't."

This is exactly what I did just like everyone else and while "saying that you can't fulfill the requirements of the job....in too much pain...can't see what you're doing, or you are too exhausted or you are not emotionally keeping it together enough." Also, my back pain barely received an honorable mention at my appeal hearing even though a new MRI had been used to justify the hearing.

Originally Posted by Rose76

If you go to the SSA and say "I was a great employee who did wonderful work and my employer is thrilled to have me on the payroll," then the SSA is going to ask why you're even applying for disability.

Please re-read the answers I gave exactly as above!

[Rose76]

You can intellectualize this all you want with abstract terms like "executive function" and "bipolar visual thinker," but what all that boils down to, if you got approved, is that you couldn't fulfill the requirements of the job.

I believe you tried your best. THE SSA requires evidence that you were making a good faith effort. I believe you that your employer thought you were a good guy and remains your friend, which has nothing to do with anything. Your employer and you found you couldn't meet the demands of the job. You tried and failed. (Otherwise, you'ld still be on the job.) That doesn't imply a loss of dignity.

The SSA is not looking to incentivize people who merely want to be taken care of. That's why merely describing pathology doesn't impress them. You have to relate the pathology of your illness to you not being able to perform your job successfully.

I got approved 3 months after submitting my initial application. Why do you think it took you longer? Why do you think two thirds of people get their initial application denied?

I watched a bunch of video presentations by lawyers to come up with my strategy. (I'll try to find a good example.) The recurring theme that I kept hearing was that saying I have XY disorder won't cut it. Jose Feliciano is blind and made millions. Carrie Fisher was a successful actress, despite being diagnosed with bipolar disorder. John Kennedy was in almost constant pain due to a back injury. What has to be established is that a serious medical condition exists and that it incapacitates you to a degree incompatible with success in the workplace. (Even though the same condition might not incapacitate someone else.) That requires concrete examples of you failing to get the job done, despite a good faith effort and compliance with medical treatment to ameliorate your symptoms.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Rose76

...boils down to...you couldn't fulfill the requirements of the job.

... THE SSA requires evidence that you were making a good faith effort.

That is the point I think we are each trying to make, and I have made all this noise in relation to that since the idea of "Nobody wants me" is but a subjective thought or comment to possibly be tacked on at the end rather than being any part of the application. My employer definitely wanted me and I wanted to keep right on working, but I finally had to say "I can't do it any more" and give notice and apply for SSDI.

[Rose76]

Maybe the office that handled your application is very lenient. But, then, why weren't you approved in 3 months. If you tell SSA, "I'm doing a beautiful job at my place of employment, but I don't think I will be able to continue doing that in the future." - then they will say, "Come back and see us, in the future, when you can no longer do your job." "Also, come back and see us when you can't do any job."

While you're "in demand," you are not disabled from gainful employment. Usually, they need to see a history of failure. Perhaps, your narrative is unusual and you had only a history of success. But "a history if failure" is, generally, very helpful in establishing a legitimate claim - one that will hold up.

"Nobody wants me" is not accepted by SSA based on the applicant's subjective impression. "Nobody wants me" only resonates with SSA, if they see a history of job failures. Such a history is not subjective. A history of job failure is an objective fact.

How long had you worked for your final employer?

[Rose76]

My point is that, if you don't want to spend years pursuing SSDI, you can speed things up - a lot, as I did - by cutting to the chase. Why can't you work? Not "What is your diagnosis and symptoms?" But "how do your symptoms affect your job performance?"

leejosepho, you had your initial application denied . . . and then you had a first appeal denied. That's how you ended up in front of an administrative judge. The SSA was wanting to know more than your diagnosis and symptoms. They denied you until you established that your symptoms incapacitated you from working.

[RainyDay107]

Originally Posted by Rose76

While you're "in demand," you are not disabled from gainful employment. Usually, they need to see a history of failure. Perhaps, your narrative is unusual and you had only a history of success. But "a history if failure" is, generally, very helpful in establishing a legitimate claim - one that will hold up.

"Nobody wants me" is not accepted by SSA based on the applicant's subjective impression. "Nobody wants me" only resonates with SSA, if they see a history of job failures. Such a history is not subjective. A history of job failure is an objective fact.

How long had you worked for your final employer?

This is a good point. In my situation, I had become very ill - essentially a massive, awful bipolar mixed episode (floridly psychotic and suicidal, too) while I was still employed and I'd never been fired before, "clean" work history.

That episode kept getting worse and my employer didn't know about my condition, at all. I became psychotic at work and yelled at some support staff, which is very unlike me. My mom was terminally ill at the time ... the impetuous for my episode.

Long story short, I was impatient for five months. My husband told my employer I was taking an extended absence due to "being depressed" after my mom died. Six months, I'm home and I'd been told by the psychiatrist and therapist at the hospital to apply for disability so that's what I did. I resigned and applied for SSDI. They wanted me back at work, my employer, but they wouldn't have really if they knew my diagnosis. I couldn't do the work anymore. I was a professional and there was no room for error. I wouldn't hire me, I thought. No way. I had become unemployable.

Just a coincidence, I have serious back and neck problems, too. They were secondary (to me) in my SSDI app. Bipolar disorder 1 with psychosis and several diagnosed anxiety disorders are truly what keep me from working. And I still can't work. I just got out of the psych hospital a few days ago. I hate it.

Keep us posted, my post was lengthy but I wanted to mention a clean job record is OK...or at least it was in my circumstances. My mental health careened down very quickly and severely...so I had a good work record until my health declined.

Good luck.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Rose76

leejosepho, you had your initial application denied . . . and then you had a first appeal denied. That's how you ended up in front of an administrative judge.

No, my initial application was denied and then a judge approved me on-the-spot during my appeal hearing.

Originally Posted by Rose76

The SSA was wanting to know more than your diagnosis and symptoms. They denied you until you established that your symptoms incapacitated you from working.

I had no diagnosis, just my initial statement that I could no longer work. No doctor would help me, and then the two doctors the SSA sent me to see were antagonistic. So where your case and mine might have been greatly different in regard to documentation, the bottom line is still identical.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by glamslam

...my employer didn't know about my condition, at all. I became psychotic at work and yelled at some support staff, which is very unlike me. My mom was terminally ill at the time ...

... I resigned and applied for SSDI. They wanted me back at work...
I couldn't do the work anymore...

...a clean job record is OK...or at least it was in my circumstances. My mental health careened down very quickly and severely...so I had a good work record until my health declined.

I had remained on the sane side of my psychotic tendencies, but your story and mine are very similar. Glad to know you are home again.

[Jolly Cat]

I went on-line and filled out the basic form. Two days later an attorney's office called me. They asked for the names, addresses and phone numbers of all my providers and then they requested the records themselves. The attorney asked me a battery of questions and sent me a form to complete. Once all the information was gathered they submitted it to SS. I was denied after the first attempt(which is normal) but, after the second request I was approved. Even after you submit the application continue to see your providers and take your meds. I was fortunate that I had ten years worth of medical/psychological records to back up my claim. Overall there was very little I had to do. The attorney will collect either 25% or 30% of any back pay directly from SS and if you are denied you pay nothing.

[Zigy]

I have Bipolar II and I'm having serious problems at work: focus, memory, meltdowns, crying, snapping at people, making frequent mistakes due to anxiety, lateness. I'm 50 years old. Meds don't work well on me. I may have to apply for disability this year if things don't improve.

What do you think?

Is having one job for 20+ years a bad thing, versus being fired from several jobs along the way? Although, I was on short term disability twice (3 and 6 months) during this time. I just got off of 6 months SDT in August. I can probably get a letter from my workplace that I have been gradually unfit for work over last few years. They have been tolerating me for the last year, but I suspect they're not happy with me.

Also, I only have one psychiatrist for the last 10 years and I was never hospitalized. Does that matter? I'm also seeing a psychologist, but only for about two months. The psychiatrist will definitely help but the psychologist probably won't want to be involved at this time. Unless I see her more.

And if I decide to apply for SSDI I can to go on a long term disability which is handled by an insurance company, CIGNA, and they are supposed to help me with the SSDI paperwork. They will pay my LTD until I get SSDI approved. This is one of my benefits from my employer. BTW, anyone has any experience with CIGNA?

Thanks.
Z.