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yagr
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Default Dec 11, 2015 at 08:16 PM
  #1
When we think of gender and double standards, we tend to think of women who have been victims of male privilege or chauvinism. There are certainly no end to such examples. On the other hand, the sword cuts two ways, and I would argue that both sexes suffer as a result. This is not a new thought for me, but what got me thinking about it was a couple of recent experiences.

First, I had shoulder surgery last Friday and I'm in a sling type contraption at the moment. No matter where I go, someone asks, “What happened to your arm?” Humor is a social lubricant for me and so I usually will say something like, “I back talked the wife once too many times” which always elicits a laugh. Usually, my wife is with me and will play along, “I think he's learned his lesson, don't you?” Every single person has got a comment, most often something along the line of, “Well he's a man, don't count on it, they can be pretty stupid.”

Can you imagine my wife with a black eye saying, “I back talked my husband once too often” getting a laugh? How about me going along with it with, “I think she's learned her lesson, don't you?” The police would have been at our house doing a welfare check by now and we wouldn't have gotten a single laugh I'll wager.

The largest domestic violence study ever conducted at the time (1981) showed equal numbers of victims between the sexes. Numerous studied since have confirmed that finding. But there are other examples of double standards...

Just a few days ago in another thread I made the mistake of mentioning false rape claims. I had to remove myself from that thread. Immediately, it was brought to my attention by a thoughtful member (there is no sarcasm in that descriptor) that there are rape victims here who would not take kindly to saying such things. He was right. Another member pointed out to me that as a new member I should know that this is a kinder, gentler place. No rebuke was necessary for the member who then wrote a post just to call me a liar about over twenty years of volunteering work I've done.

I've been falsely accused of rape. I was arrested. I was beat up by the police. I was later cleared when the underage 'victim' broke down and said she was just trying to get back at me for refusing to have sex with her. But as a man, I don't get to talk about false claims – not unless I share intimate details of my personal life. Women can talk about the horrors of rape without ever having to reveal that they were raped.

My academic adviser in college (UAF) and friend was accused of sexually molesting a nineteen year old co-ed. He was the fifth teacher or professor she had accused, but that was inadmissible. He was placed on administrative leave. I knew he didn't do what he was accused of because I was one of only a couple of folks in the world who knew he was gay and in a committed relationship with his partner of over twenty years. The investigation revealed that, and his homosexuality rated first page news – its how his parents found out. Before he could return to school though, he died of pneumonia. You don't die of pneumonia in otherwise good health at fifty-one years old – you die because your world has imploded and you've given up. The poor girl had to deal with a great deal of embarrassment over that; no charges though.

I think double standards are wrong. I know that there are victims on both sides of the gender divide. Only allowing one side a voice is wrong and keeps people suffering unnecessarily. In fact, only allowing one side a voice helps keep the sexes unequal.
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Default Dec 12, 2015 at 07:28 PM
  #2
I will focus on two issues: domestic violence and rape.

When police officers arrive at a domestic call they're looking at the man and the woman. If the woman has the tiniest bruise on her the man is arrested, but they also look at the man. If the man has the tiniest bruise on him the woman is arrested. This wasn't the case 30 years ago, so the double standard is much less than it used to be.

I'll divide rape into two categories: non-marital rape and marital rape.

First, we must acknowledge that the average man is significantly stronger than the average woman, so we must take that into account. The number of females charged with raping a man has significantly increased over the last 30 years (when it was unheard of). For non-marital rape there will always be a bias in favor of women to compensate for the disparity in physical strength.

As for marital rape, that was not legally possible in the entire U.S. until 1993 (that is not a typo). To this day about a dozen states treat marital rape (a wife claiming to be raped by her husband) more leniently than non-marital rape. South Carolina only gives the wife 30 days to report the rape, and the rape, per se, is not sufficient to charge the husband with rape. The rape must be accompanied by a high degree of bodily harm. Thus the husband has to rape his wife while holding a bat, pipe, or loaded gun, etc. (source: Wikipedia, 12 December 2015).

Thus any double standard is much less now than 30 years ago, but this still is a man's world, but it wouldn't be nothing without a woman (as the song says).
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Default Dec 12, 2015 at 07:47 PM
  #3
Yagr and Kindness, thank you both of you for saying what you have about double standards. I think you can rightly say, the world has changed and there just doesn't seem to be any rules or normalcy anymore like there was years ago. I agree with both of you. Thanks again. tc
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Default Dec 13, 2015 at 12:27 PM
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by yagr View Post
When we think of gender and double standards, we tend to think of women who have been victims of male privilege or chauvinism. There are certainly no end to such examples. On the other hand, the sword cuts two ways, and I would argue that both sexes suffer as a result. This is not a new thought for me, but what got me thinking about it was a couple of recent experiences.

First, I had shoulder surgery last Friday and I'm in a sling type contraption at the moment. No matter where I go, someone asks, “What happened to your arm?” Humor is a social lubricant for me and so I usually will say something like, “I back talked the wife once too many times” which always elicits a laugh. Usually, my wife is with me and will play along, “I think he's learned his lesson, don't you?” Every single person has got a comment, most often something along the line of, “Well he's a man, don't count on it, they can be pretty stupid.”

Can you imagine my wife with a black eye saying, “I back talked my husband once too often” getting a laugh? How about me going along with it with, “I think she's learned her lesson, don't you?” The police would have been at our house doing a welfare check by now and we wouldn't have gotten a single laugh I'll wager.

The largest domestic violence study ever conducted at the time (1981) showed equal numbers of victims between the sexes. Numerous studied since have confirmed that finding. But there are other examples of double standards...

Just a few days ago in another thread I made the mistake of mentioning false rape claims. I had to remove myself from that thread. Immediately, it was brought to my attention by a thoughtful member (there is no sarcasm in that descriptor) that there are rape victims here who would not take kindly to saying such things. He was right. Another member pointed out to me that as a new member I should know that this is a kinder, gentler place. No rebuke was necessary for the member who then wrote a post just to call me a liar about over twenty years of volunteering work I've done.

I've been falsely accused of rape. I was arrested. I was beat up by the police. I was later cleared when the underage 'victim' broke down and said she was just trying to get back at me for refusing to have sex with her. But as a man, I don't get to talk about false claims – not unless I share intimate details of my personal life. Women can talk about the horrors of rape without ever having to reveal that they were raped.

My academic adviser in college (UAF) and friend was accused of sexually molesting a nineteen year old co-ed. He was the fifth teacher or professor she had accused, but that was inadmissible. He was placed on administrative leave. I knew he didn't do what he was accused of because I was one of only a couple of folks in the world who knew he was gay and in a committed relationship with his partner of over twenty years. The investigation revealed that, and his homosexuality rated first page news – its how his parents found out. Before he could return to school though, he died of pneumonia. You don't die of pneumonia in otherwise good health at fifty-one years old – you die because your world has imploded and you've given up. The poor girl had to deal with a great deal of embarrassment over that; no charges though.

I think double standards are wrong. I know that there are victims on both sides of the gender divide. Only allowing one side a voice is wrong and keeps people suffering unnecessarily. In fact, only allowing one side a voice helps keep the sexes unequal.
Agreed. And my apologies... wish there had been a more tactful or discreet way of saying that.
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Default Dec 14, 2015 at 03:06 PM
  #5
My now EX-wife got into a minor bicycle accident when we were married, ended up with a few scrapes and a black eye. I was shocked by all the dirty looks that EVERYONE gave me when we went out. The day after the accident we went out to dinner the first time we were in public together and the first time I was exposed to all the dirty looks nobody said anything but their looks told me that they had already made up their mind on what happened. I wanted to leave, the idea of the waiter/waitress spitting in my food really didn't appeal to me, but fortunately our waitress was the daughter of our neighbors so she knew what really happened.

If I had been the one with a black eye nobody would have thought that my wife had hit me, but she used to hit me often, I spent years as the victim of physical, verbal and emotional abuse, but nobody really took my reports (when I finally did tell people) seriously.

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Default Dec 15, 2015 at 10:46 AM
  #6
In general, double standards only serve to further undermine equality in our society. That said, I'm willing to put up with most of them that favor women given what women have to put up with.

Using the example above, if my arm were in a sling I would fine with the abuse jokes not being serious, I'll take that one in trade. Because when I go to a job interview I merely have to put on my suit and dress properly. My wife has to know if she's interviewing with a man or woman. If it's a man, she has to show the slightest hint of cleavage to be taken seriously. If it's a woman, she has to do the opposite to be taken seriously. In today's world, she should be able to dress in business attire without having anyone concerned with her chest (men and women).

Now false accusations, that's a very serious issue that goes even beyond a double standard. Because some accusations are guilty until proven innocent such as child abuse/neglect/assault and rape. The problem is the justice system itself. There are serious flaws when the most typical defense over the years is to put the victim on trial as opposed to the accused. It's a very flaky system developed from years of under-reporting, intimidation, disbelief (going back to the concept of marital rape) and victim blaming. Even if the accuser is acquitted, they'll never really be innocent again in society.

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