what disorder focuses on others, nt themselves?

I'm bringing that series of articles to my therapist. THANK YOU for posting that link! I've been telling people this stuff for years!

I was really really impressed with it when I came across it. She has an understanding that I don't typically see from professionals. I'm usually just surprised when people talk about us like we are actual human beings. The bar is set so low.

I wouldn't call anyone demonic either, thank you for referencing my original source material. I've internalized it so I forget to refer orders.

I know right? I've been called a demon to my face before. Like wow, thanks I guess?

I think when we use "evil" or "demon" and such to refer to human beings, all we are saying is that we aren't capable of understanding them or helping them. If you're a "demon" then I don't have to feel bad as a professional for being unable to help you in any way. I don't have to feel bad for not relating to you as another human being, I'll put that blame squarely on you. It's a cop out.

Everyone I know that has a PD is exceptional in some way and most are extremely intelligent. Not every therapist/counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist was at the top of their class. Some of those people barely graduated. Some of those people couldn't pass the licensing exam the 2nd, 3rd time (true story, I know someone who failed 3 times.) I guess that would be the point where my narcissistic traits kicked in because my feeling is "Sorry you are so intimidated by me that you need to villanize me. Buh-bye." One of my exes who I was convinced either had NPD or Anti-social PD had this quote as her email signature and in some ways it is pretty true: "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein

And Einstein here was talking about the brutal suppression of free speech and equality by the Nazi, to prevent and intervene against genocide. It is interesting when psychos use these types of quotes (that are pro peace, non-violent and rationale) to justify their violent actions and cruelty- that is a head turner. It is really scaring how many people are like this, no empathy for others. We are in the same situation now with all the refugees fleeing violence in their home countries and the lack of understand and basic empathy for their lives and needs. Sick, Effing Sick!!!!

Whoa, pathway. . .I appreciate the threads you have started in this forum, that have led to interesting discussions, so I’m certainly not trying to invalidate or devalue anything, but this seems a little . . . well, over the top? Which could maybe lead to some more interesting discussion?

Seems to me that Europe is doing a pretty good job of trying to take care of the refugees. Not perfect, but pretty good. Or maybe you were talking some people in the US who don’t want them here?

It’s wonderful that you would like to help other people. Without some compassion and caring in the world then the world would be in bad shape, I think. But if others don’t share your passion, I don’t think it makes them sick or psychos necessarily. Politics, and people, are complicated.

Also, for some perspective: the word “empathy” has been commonly used only in the last couple of decades. It was coined in 1909 by a British psychologist, based on some studies he was familiar with by a German psychologist.

Anyway, Merry you-know-what, everybody!

Love-ya,

here_today.

I was speaking about people who lack empathy and how that effects policy and people's very survival. I brought this up bc someene mentioned (wrote) the Einstein quote, so it was my response to this person. Of course, you can read it and comment. I think people who lack empathy, not only affect the people that they interact with personally, but can effect public policy. It is very scary to me.

Yeah but it's a pervasive cycle that almost anyone can get sucked into.

If other people don't care about your needs and feelings, then you basically have two options.

1. Be a doormat and submit to the notion that it's okay for you to spend energy and make sacrifices for others, without receiving the same in return.
2. Be strategic and focus on your own needs and feelings, while other people do the same.

People who go with Option 1 tend to equate being a doormat with being a good person. These are going to be your codependent types, most of the time. They'll also suppress their own needs and feelings, but those needs and feelings don't just magically disappear, they just become a subconscious thing that leaks through, which results in the martyr complex, which ironically can manifest the same as NPD or BPD.

People who go with Option 2 tend to rely more on logic and nature as the framework for their morality and ethical codes. Their downfall tends to be in the rigidity of it, as well as the over-simplification of things that are actually quite complex and subjective. This sort of thinking can also easily lead to manifestations of NPD in the end, even AsPD in extreme cases.

But when you are looking at the WHOLE thing, all together as one big picture, it is easy to see that it always starts with feeling like nobody cares about your well-being, yet you are expected to care about others' well-being. Which forces you into a decision to either be the doormat or put yourself first.

So you can't determine whether or not someone has empathy until you have shown them genuine empathy in the first place. Until you have given them an option where they can care about others while feeling secure that their feelings and well-being will be valued and respected, also. And that is what most people do not do. They don't show empathy first, but they expect others to be doormats, and then cry "evil" when that doesn't happen. It makes for quite the ironic joke of a situation where it's all a bunch of self-righteous, hypocritical fools spouting off at each other in the end.

Empathy is being able to see, feel and think about the other person. IF you do not have empathy, they can do actions to another that is cruel. But not having empathy, is the cause (i guess). Even if someone is being an a-hole to you, you can still be the fair and empathetic person. But if the a-hole does not want to calm down and be fair and empathetic, then you know, right? People without empathy are vindictive, cold and choose cruel actions. Actions that they would never want to be a recipient of. So it's the actions that give them (no empathy) away. I am new to the vindictive cycle of NPD and ASPD. I am see some people in a new light, no empathy as the cause. It is disturbing! I thought they would calm down, but they are just getting worse not better.

I joined here for strategies actually to calm down a situation. I have not heard anything to help people with low empathy to stop, calm down and chill out for a way. This is over the Holidays, when people are suppose to be in a good mood and all . So it looks as if they are enjoying the vindictiveness and it is very disturbing.

Do you have any advice?

My advice: take people as they are, as well as you are able to see and know how they are.

If/when you are in a difficult interpersonal situation that needs calming down, try to find a way to get/keep yourself calm first. And I guess, in your case, that would be what can you do to help with feeling scared? Which of course leads to the question of how can you stop the other people from being scary!!

Unfortunately, your understanding of the word empathy is not correct. That’s kind of what I wondered when I said that it was just coined in 1909. These days the way that “empathy” is used it seems almost like a fad.

People can be vindictive for lots of different reasons and, in fact, empathy can be used to find where and how to strike people where they hurt. It won't necessarily stop a person from hurting others.

If you don't tend to be vindictive yourself then it's understandable that it's hard (at first) to feel the vindictive feelings in another, which IS what empathy is. But once you can understand where the other person is coming from, then you can better understand how to take care of and care about yourself (which can help calm the scared feeling?) Then, if you still care about the relationship and want to try to help the other person you're in a better position, and have more information (through your empathy with them) to do it.

Not caring and not having empathy are not the same thing.

Well-put, very clear.

I've found that if the NPD starts feeling fear that they are about to be abandoned then they can quickly morph into the more classic BPD traits, like stalking, to show they care LOL.

As in the NPD cannot express that they care but they can do it secretly by their actions of stalking and remaining hidden, after they have probably driven the BPD over the edge. And vice versa. This situation gets reversed of course, where the BPD becomes the NPD and then when things are really at the end they both become NPDBPDWXYZ and it's just a warzone to see who can take each other out first. Who can stay away, who can look like they're staying away, who can stop talking about the other one to friends first, who can show they have moved on at the speed of sound.

Interesting theory. Switching between NPD and BPD traits.

Yes I've witnessed myself and my ex partner doing it many times. I don't know if its the case in all instances, but when the need arose to go into damage control when either of us had 'gone too far' the NPD would mirror the BPD traits he either already had stored in a layer underneath or had picked up from me to calm me down because seeing him acting like me worked a treat LOL. When I'd done something really bad I would go all NPD. When I did something really, really, really bad I'd bring out every PD in the book and then some. Then he started copying and I thought this is really stupid. It's not a relationship it's a competition to see who has the most mental health issues and can get away with it! So I ended it in a very polite calm way with no PD games and he reciprocated.

So true!!!! I have been through the stalking, crying and begging. Again, MANIPULATION!!!!!