[Rebound]

Am I correct in saying that for a person to receive a diagnosis of OCD, the behaviors must be having a significant impact on the person's ability to carry out a daily life?

If so, how do you know where to draw the line between some compulsive behaviors related to other conditions - namely bi-polar disorder and ADHD - and a true diagnosis of OCD.

By now you're hopefully wondering about my symptoms. Please understand that I don't know much of anything about OCD, really, and I apologize if I portray any stereotypes, I'm just trying to list as factually as I can behaviors I think may be related to OCD but there may be plenty of stuff that you identify as having nothing whatever to do with it. I'd appreciate any feedback in that regard.

I continually check the time, but there have been many times where I have done that and realized a moment later I still had no idea what time it was and had to look again. I feel lost without my watch and when I don't have it, I need to know where the clock is wherever I go.

Each and every daily household task has been broken down into individual steps that have been examined in the minutest detail. Many of the things I do, are done much the same was as anyone else; however, I have in my head an exact right way everything has to be done so, for example, when folding clothes, I have to keep fluffing them out and folding them again to get them just right; it takes me far longer than it should. Mistakes are inevitable but when I make them, my reaction is way out of proportion.

I tend to be quite formal in the spoken and written word.

I'm gradually becoming more and more precise in the placement of dishes in my cupboards, i.e. nudging this one just so and making sure that one goes on top etc. Simply keeping them more organized is easily a good thing for someone with ADHD, but I'm referring to more precision and feelings of, "no, it's still not quite right.... nudge nudge". Please tell me if you disagree with the distinction I'm trying to make here.

I go completely off my rocker if I think I may be late. It happens whether I'm running behind due to forgetfulness, due to a third party and even when it really doesn't matter if I'm on time or not - say for parties and such. I absolutely flip my lid. It turns out if I start rushing around it triggers anxiety; there's a fine howdy do.

I can't stop talking out loud to myself whether anyone else is around or not unless I focus almost all my attention on it. I think that's the biggy right there.

So here's the crux of the matter: how do I know how much impact these things are having on my daily life when I have no idea what its like not to have them?

But I know this much about where I work: I know the talking to myself thing has caused embarrassment more than once; the extra time needed to do certain tasks caused a lot of unpaid overtime; whenever I would arrive late or even just on time, I would be agitated and scatter-brained and feel like I was running behind for the entire rest of the day.

[perpetuallysad]

Inevitably I must ask: have you talked to your therapist about this stuff? They would be in a better position to really diagnose what's going on with you.

Sounds like ocd to me, but I don't know how much of your time you spend doing these things. My ocd is more related to constantly intrusive thoughts. Though the time thing is a big deal to me as well. And I am very perfectionistic. The intrusive thoughts co-exist with bipolar for me, so I don't know how it goes for someone who's not bipolar as well.

Oh, that wasn't very helpful, now was it. Anyhow, I just wanted you to know someone was listening.

[Rapunzel]

Rebound, it sounds like these behaviors are causing you distress and concern. It bothers you, and you don't enjoy life as much as you might if you didn't have these behaviors. I agree with talking to your therapist about it.

I would ask you about a couple more things. What happens if you try to resist your compulsive behaviors? Do you have thoughts that go along with the behaviors, and what are they?

OCD and Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder can be really hard to tell apart. Even for mental health professionals sometimes. The behaviors and the need for everything to be just right, and to be on time, have access to a clock, be organized, etc. can all be symptoms of OCPD. The main distinction is that OCD has intrusive thoughts, like perpetuallysad referred to. They are a particular kind of thought, and usually a connection between the behaviors and trying to manage the thoughts and keep them from being too distressing or get out of hand.

If you want to overcome OCD or OCPD, you would need to work on talking back to those thoughts and tolerating not always doing your behaviors. In other words you deciding what you want to do, not letting the disorder control you. It is hard work, and help and support from a therapist is usually needed.

Why is it important to label symptoms according to which disorder they represent? Sometimes it really does run together, because you are a person, not a collection of symptoms. And what matters is you being able to get help for what bothers you and what interferes with your life, so that you can have the best life possible.

[Perna]

"So here's the crux of the matter: how do I know how much impact these things are having on my daily life when I have no idea what its like not to have them?"

If you don't know how much impact they have on your daily life, then they are having too much. I think you sense that you could have "better" things to do than nudge dishes and fluff towels or even think of the placement of dishes and how fluffy the towels will be in their closed cabinets and closets?

I think, generally, whatever symptoms get most in the way determines the top-most diagnosis when you have several. Symptoms are not "you" so, ideally, the fewer the better. However, we all have ways to cope and some of those are "symptoms" but, if we don't mind and they don't get in our way, then they're okay.

I use to deliberately talk to myself (and answer :-) and it would entertain my coworkers. It was fine with me, helped me get "another" person in there to help me better see what I was struggling with (the other person being the "me" I was talking to and who was answering but having friends at work comment too just made it even more helpful).

I had a compulsive habit symptom that took up a large part of my day and was my primary reason for being in therapy. The therapy got rid of it and though I remember I couldn't imagine what I would do with all my time if I didn't have my symptom, I now don't have it but don't use my time much better (but I'm retired now). I have been able to go back to school and get another couple of degrees though and do other projects I enjoy which I wouldn't have ever been able to do with the symptom still in place.

A lot of it is what bugs YOU the most (not your doctors) and what you'd like to work on and/or get rid of. If it doesn't bother you that you have to know what time it is all the time but does bother you that you talk to yourself, work on seeing what you and your doctors can do about that symptom background first?

[Rebound]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

Inevitably I must ask: have you talked to your therapist about this stuff? They would be in a better position to really diagnose what's going on with you.

Sounds like ocd to me, but I don't know how much of your time you spend doing these things. My ocd is more related to constantly intrusive thoughts. Though the time thing is a big deal to me as well. And I am very perfectionistic. The intrusive thoughts co-exist with bipolar for me, so I don't know how it goes for someone who's not bipolar as well.

Oh, that wasn't very helpful, now was it. Anyhow, I just wanted you to know someone was listening.

Actually, it is quite helpful Thanks. In fact, great replies all around,

For sure I will speak about it with my pdoc but while I wait for my next appointment, this is just what I was hoping for, to generate discussion.

It turns out that I also have BP II. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by intrusive thoughts, so I'll just tell you that when it comes to the hyper-attention to detail, somewhere in my mind I'm thinking, "I need to do this right so no one makes fun of me," whether anyone is there or not. I don't think that is what you had in mind, but I'm still interested in your feedback.

When I deliberately attempt to resist, say by being care-free in the order I wash my bits in the shower, I'm ok as long as I don't make any "errors". I will be able to carry this on to other activities through the day. But as soon as I make what I perceive to be a mistake, it all goes out the window and I basically have a fit that can continue the rest of the day.

The main impact of all this perfectionism is severe procrastination and an inability to follow through on tasks. The talking out loud thing, well, I think you can imagine thoughts of co-workers who see me walking the hallways muttering to myself.

---"Why is it important to label symptoms according to which disorder they represent? Sometimes it really does run together, because you are a person, not a collection of symptoms. And what matters is you being able to get help for what bothers you and what interferes with your life, so that you can have the best life possible."---

I'm interested in being able to communicate effectively with my doc and I'm trying to organize my thoughts. Discussions like this help me crystallize my perceptions, since otherwise they change all the time depending on my frame of mind. I have as great a need to organize and re-arrange my thoughts as much as anything else. E.g. I often rehearse the things I intend to say to people in my head, even for events that may be far in the future.

My goal is to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, out of all the confusion in my head. My diagnosis of bipolar disorder was some time ago. Now, the pdoc I've just started seeing is sure I have ADHD of the inattentive variety, and I'm identifying in myself all these other behaviors. By having discussions like this, I can distill out of them the most important parts and email them to my doctor so he can choose the best course of action. It satisfies my need for completeness and order while I'm at it.

Please continue with your feedback, I appreciate it.

[perpetuallysad]

I get what you are talking about with the thoughts and I do that as well, but what I meant by intrusive thoughts are things like...ug, I am embarrassed to even try to give an example, so I will tell you one of the more benign types: say I'm driving down the road and there is person walking along the side (we really don't have sidewalks here), I imagine myself running over them, then stopping and them being hurt and bleeding, maybe a smashed head...I go through the whole thing, I think of an ambulance, the cops, etc...etc...its really very dreadful, because I obviously don't want to kill someone. But I think of things like that dozens, if not hundreds, of times in a day. Some days are better, some days are worse. Its is invariably something bad that I imagine doing and they disturb me and cause me anxiety. They also can cause me to become very paranoid (say I have a sudden idea that someone's outside my window with an ax waiting to chop my son up when he falls asleep), and then delusional. Because I will become convinced this thing is going to happen, regardless of how logically I can look at the situation, I am plagued with these thoughts or ideas. That's what I mean by intrusive.

[Rebound]

I see. Thank you. I experience something only vaguely similar, and only when my mind is idle.

[bluzman]

Dear Rebound what you are describing sound like what theydeem to be "Classic obsessive compulsive behaviour" as i have been a diagnosed member for about a decade now, but however i am not going to justify it by analyzing that you have it,as i am not a therapist but your symptons seem to run Parallel with a lot of mine as well as with other other participants on this site..My OCD became more apparent in its so defined form (unbeknown to me at the time it was happenin) when i was under enormous pressure at work and ended being fired from work.This is what rocked the boat and ended up having a breakdown on top of it.However after I had been diagnosed with having it, I reflected back on my behaviour over many stages of my life and somehow concluded that i even had it as a child....I was always unusually odd to the rest of my peers at school as far as germs were concerned and contamination. In my young adulthood i was always conastantly bombarded with intrusive thoughts(ie like blasphemous outbursts during a sermon at church)....and so many others i could mention and still prevelant now...when i got my drivers licence I was (and still to this present day) thought that i would run down a pedestrian or cyclist on the way to work and not know it........ and i would arrive at home or work and inspect my car for damage over and over and go back to the "supposedly" scene of the crime and check and look for this Psuedo dead or injured body and if that wasnt enough i would listen to the hourly news on updates....it was and still is controlling my lifeto date this particular sympton ......some symptons are just fleeting and eventually get over ridden with others more imporatant with eternal severe obsessions that stay with me and nothing can emancipate me from them.....(i have so many clasifications of them but i wont stress and bore you about me)But please get a thorough analysis first before you burden yourself with worry......Please take care and wish you all the best in health.