[terre]

I'm fascinated by people whose vocation in life is to help people. Psychologists, social workers, counselors and "do-gooders" come to mind. I am nothing like them, and to some extent I feel guilty and inadequate. At the same time, I also believe that these people's desire to help people is pathological, and by that I mean, and I don't mean it in a derogatory sense, that something "abnormal" in their brains makes them care way too much about people (or animals or the environment). More than a defect I see it as a gift, and even though I'm so unlike those people, I often empathize with them; for example, I also experience feelings of indignation when I witness an injustice, but unfortunately I don't feel the desire to do anything about it. I just think about the injustice, empathize with the victims, suffer, forget about it, and move on with my life.

Can someone please expand a little more on this subject?

[pachyderm]

There are probably different explanations for different people. Some think they will get approval if they "do good". Some are so skilled at their particular profession that they get a lot of enjoyment just doing their particular version of good. Anyway, I think doing good can feel good whatever its "real" motivation is, if there is not such a great "need" to do good that it is carried to extremes.

[lonegael]

Hard to tell. I was raised with the attitude, if it is wrong, fix it. My father and my materna grandfather always had the attitude, you did not look around for someone else to do it. You did it if you identified the problem and could see the solution. My mother was always you complained and distanced yourself speedily until a "man" (or an expert) came and fixed it. Your contribution was making noise.
I tended to be like my dad. Later it was pointed out that from his back ground, it was a form of "noblise oblige" (his family was old nobility back in the day) that his family always has practiced. You, no one else, were responsible to be the first into action. So, the do gooding in his family was automatic, you were raised to do it without thinking. A mixture of religion and ancient sword swinging code of honor most clans ignored even back then and we're still walking straight into warzones and deworming babies in famine struck countries all the while no one is following. Figures! That's how you end up FORMER nobility! HUGGGS!

[madisgram]

just me ...i think some do-gooders do good for others to take the focus off self while others are truly desiring to help others.

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by terre

I'm fascinated by people whose vocation in life is to help people. Psychologists, social workers, counselors and "do-gooders" come to mind. I am nothing like them, and to some extent I feel guilty and inadequate. At the same time, I also believe that these people's desire to help people is pathological, and by that I mean, and I don't mean it in a derogatory sense, that something "abnormal" in their brains makes them care way too much about people (or animals or the environment). More than a defect I see it as a gift, and even though I'm so unlike those people, I often empathize with them; for example, I also experience feelings of indignation when I witness an injustice, but unfortunately I don't feel the desire to do anything about it. I just think about the injustice, empathize with the victims, suffer, forget about it, and move on with my life.

Can someone please expand a little more on this subject?

As one of those "do gooders" I'm glad you explained what you meant by "pathological." I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it's not to take the focus off myself or in order to gain approval of others. It's partly something I learned as a kid. My family reached out to people in need to help them with no intention of recognition or approval. In large part I help others because it's the "right" thing to do. Internally I have a sense of accomplishment, a warm fuzzy feeling inside when I've helped someone.

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/mindfu...from-altruism/

[lone_twin4]

I'm still in education, but I volunteer for a local charity and I am training in counseling. I do these things because I want to be a useful person. "If I help just one other person, that's my job done!" is the kind of cliché I live my life by. It's fun working at the charity too. It makes me feel good to do those things, but I don't brag about it and am pretty sure I'm no better than anyone else. But I gotta filll my time so I might as well fill it with something productive.

It is a little selfish I suppose; I feel pretty guilty about everything a lot of the time! Being a "do-gooder" kind of relinquishes some of the guilt. If I walk past a Big Issue vendor without buying the magazine, I can't stop thinking about it. My motives are not 100% selfless unfortunately! But I think that is a good thing, in some ways.

[Keep Running]

If I'm honest, a lot of "do gooder" professions actually pay good wages. Doctors are one, definitely. But social workers are relatively well paid, as are police officers, counsellors, teachers, and so on. Nurses and para-medics are hardly scraping by, either. I think 50% of the attraction is the good money and job security, then the other 50% is the 'feel good factor' of helping others for a living.

When I was in primary school all those years ago my Deputy Head Teacher actually told us bluntly that if she wasn't getting paid okay for her job, she wouldn't do it. I forget the exact topic which made her say that, but it's true. There is money involved in the motivation, definitely.

I dunno about others ...or professions of the nature...but for me...growing up,I was really in need of guidance ,support,and advice.I made a ton of mistakes...and really felt humbled when I found understanding or forgiveness.I reach out...because that is what I need as a human forgiveness,advice,direction...I try to do what I sense is right.Fail miserably most of the time lol.Hmm...as I wrote...the thoughts processed in my head...flashing snippets of examples of my responses to people.I do over empathize.I do cry about things with no direct impact on my life.To the point of severe sadness.I think yes you are correct.It is a sort of crippling trait. Grrr....lol...(wish I could find a balance in that...you bring a useful subject matter to the forefront.)Thank you for this.

[purple_fins]

like "wolfsong" said-- "growing up,I was really in need of guidance ,support,and advice.I made a ton of mistakes...and really felt humbled when I found understanding or forgiveness. "

that's how it was for me and some children around me... when others did NOTHING it felt even MORE devastating... thus adding to the abuse that was already occuring.
I give and do because I know how much it would have meant to me to have someone care enough to help-- so I help. (I've volunteered-anonymously, in one realm or another, most of my whole adult life, since I turned 16)

I believe in that saying--- not doing is akin to not caring. to me it's hypocritical if one considers themself a caring person, when all they do is give something a "thought" and then go about their OWN life-- not really caring enough to help/make a difference.
I had a childhood of "talk" (how others were such "good" , "caring" people)... talk/thought is cheap-- "doing" is what helps to strengthen humanity and bonds with each other.

I always wondered just the opposite than you--terre--
How does the mind of one that doesn't care to get involved or help others work?... that is very foreign to me....
seems so cold, self centered -- (not saying you are that way, I don't know you or your personality)
it makes me think of some adults from my childhood- the ones that didn't want to help/get involved(I regard them as almost as bad as the abusers)-- the difference they made was a negative one, one that I will forever disdain them for.

I hope I've not offended anyone-- so NOT my intention-- all that I've said was about me and my life and those from my life-- not anyone here.

peace to all

fins

[Dark_Dreams]

For me, helping is not about money. I do not make much money at all but when I see that soemthing needs to be done, all that matetrs to me is making sure it is done.

I have no idea where the root of my need to help comes from. When I see soemthing that isn't right, I want to make it right. Often times I get no recognition for the task that is done. I actually go out of my way sometimes to make sure that I get no recognition. In my mind, it isn't about me or what I did. it is about improoving the condition of another person.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Keep Running

There is money involved in the motivation, definitely.

Perhaps money is motivating many but it not the motivation for everyone, all the time.

I volunteered as a paramedic for several years. I also volunteered my time to teach ACLS classes until the program found money to pay us for teaching.

Thank you Yoda...I never even noticed that..."there is $ involved in the motivation"....I disagree completely that money is definately involved.There are tons of anonymous good deeds,and actions.I think many would agree.

[KathyM]

I'm often accused of being a "do-gooder" and "bleeding heart." I don't understand why it would be inconceivable to care about the welfare of other people. I guess many have been programmed to block out the world and think only of themselves. It sounds good on paper, but it doesn't play out very well on the streets.

My vocation was in the "do-gooder" business, but it's not a recognized "do-gooder" profession. I was a secretary and enjoyed supporting great leaders. As a kid, I considered my father to be a great leader, and I always enjoyed helping him around the house.

I was working at a hospital when the head of pediatrics asked me to be his secretary. He was/is a pediatrician and pediatric cardiologist. It was mandatory to care for our patients. After seeing what our patients and their families had to endure, it was very easy to care about their welfare. I'd wake up in a cold sweat sometimes hoping I had everything set in place for some kid's heart surgery the next morning - hoping a simple mistake would not delay a near-emergent life-saving procedure.

I had to care about the doctors too because my boss was the head of the attending and resident staff - who came from all over the world. They also needed to be taught how to "care" for their patients, as if the patient were their own beloved family member. My compassion for our doctors developed after getting to know them and hearing their personal stories.

That was a LONG time ago, but I still care about all those people, their families, and their patients as much as I did back then. I can't help but hope that life has treated them well.

So what's wrong with me?

There is nothing at all wrong with you.Nothing at all.We should all offer an arm to grab hold of...especially since it may be us which next requires such an arm!

[KathyM]

Originally Posted by wolfsong

There is nothing at all wrong with you.Nothing at all.We should all offer an arm to grab hold of...especially since it may be us which next requires such an arm!

Aw, shucks, Wolfsong - thanks.

Grab hold of my arm any time you need. I'll warn ya though - I'm going blind, have balance problems, and suffer from neuropathy in my arms and legs. I'll give it my all, but be prepared to hit the pavement.....bring Band-Aids.

[PurpleFlyingMonkeys]

I'm not sure if you would classify me as a "do gooder" or not but some people, the people who see me every day do. I try to be kind to everyone, I try to put everyone before myself and I try to live the best I can. This means no swearing (I think it makes me sound ignorant anyways) and no negative words as well, I cut out all words in my vocabulary that are negative. Well I am trying to at least.

I have always been the one to put others before myself though, going beyond just the normal proper speech and occassional charity work. I have gone so far as to break up with a boyfriend of mine simply because my friend told me she wanted to date him, then I ended up setting them up together a week later. I've been like this since grade school.

People call me a pushover and things like that, I've been called an idiot on numerous occassions when asked questions like what I would do with a million dollars. My answer is always to donate about 75% to abused children, set up college for my daughter and buy us a small house and car. If that were to ever happen, I would do just that. For some reason other people, people who don't understand me, often don't get it and call me pretty harsh names for it, strange is it not? That common decensy is looked at as idiocy?

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question or not, I actually ask this a lot but from the opposite side of the fense, I ask non stop why everyone is so cruel and so selfish and no one seems to be as giving or sincere anymore. (Not literally everyone of course)

I think though when it comes down to it, it realy is just who deep down has the purest heart. Some people are born with the desire to help others, with the knowledge and understanding that if it weren't for them the world would no longer exist. At least in the way I feel about my life is that I was born to make a difference in this world, with my schizophrenia I'm not sure how much my importance in reality is to this world but to myself I feel exceptionally important in the change that the world needs.

Maybe this too is the way some people feel, I can only answer for myself though.

[lizardlady]

Originally Posted by Keep Running

If I'm honest, a lot of "do gooder" professions actually pay good wages. Doctors are one, definitely. But social workers are relatively well paid, as are police officers, counsellors, teachers, and so on. Nurses and para-medics are hardly scraping by, either. I think 50% of the attraction is the good money and job security, then the other 50% is the 'feel good factor' of helping others for a living.

When I was in primary school all those years ago my Deputy Head Teacher actually told us bluntly that if she wasn't getting paid okay for her job, she wouldn't do it. I forget the exact topic which made her say that, but it's true. There is money involved in the motivation, definitely.

I strongly disagree with your contention that money is a motivator for "do gooders." Also take exception to your statement that "counsellors" are "relatively well paid."

In response to your statement that money is a motivator. I do kind things for people outside my employment. I do nice things for people with no thought of recompense. I doubt I am the only person who does "do gooder" things without being paid for them.

As to being "relatively well paid". I have a Master's degree and am a licensed mental health counselor for a non-profit agency. The youth care workers (glorified baby sitters) in our youth shelter make almost as much money as I do. The have a GED or high school diploma. By no stretch of the imagination am I "relatively well paid."

[kashmir0]

I want to become a psychologist because of everything I've been through. Hopefully I can save others from experiencing what I experienced. It's not just because I want to go to sleep knowing I've helped others, although that is part of the attraction, but it is really a yearning to pass on what knowledge I've gained through my experiences.

[Skully]

Originally Posted by Keep Running

If I'm honest, a lot of "do gooder" professions actually pay good wages. Doctors are one, definitely. But social workers are relatively well paid, as are police officers, counsellors, teachers, and so on. Nurses and para-medics are hardly scraping by, either. I think 50% of the attraction is the good money and job security, then the other 50% is the 'feel good factor' of helping others for a living.

There is money involved in the motivation, definitely.

Are you kidding me????? Mental health is one of the most underpaid professions! Having worked in mental health for 7 years as both a case manager and a therapist I STRONGLY disagree with your statement. "There is money involved in the motivation, definitely"
Explain further what you mean by that? I know I did not get into mental health as a case manager working for the county for $24,500 a year because they money was so good! Try living on that.
Most psychiatrist working at mental health facilities make between $75,000-$100,00 a year....and they see about 50 patients a day. Compared to private practice that is not much money. Also consider the fact that by the time a doctor is ready to begin practice, they are aporx. $250,000 in debt (as per CNN news). Would you pay $250,000 for an education to come out making $75,000 a year? No.

I went into mental health because I genuinely cared about people. I went into crisis therapy because there was a need for it and I had the skills and background to do it.....for a whopping $50 per day for 24 hours of on call service! That comes to $2.09 an hour....oh yes I was rolling in it alright!!!

I think there is a cultural difference here...

I note that "Keep Running" is also from the UK and many Mental Health professionals here who run private practises along side their NHS practise do project an image of being only in it for the money.

Also may I add that our education system is different and we do not pay the high University fees that students in America and Canada pay so paying back school fees is not the motivation for the prices they charge.

As an example of prices I have asked for three quotes from CBT therapists and although none of them have any experience of dealing with clients with Aspergers they have all quoted around the GBP 200.00 (approx CAD 309.2) for a 45 minute session.

This is not to say that everyone is in it just for the money because that just isn't true. But if you're feeling low already and every time you ask for help that you are supposed to be entitled to for free and told there is none - but it is available if you pay their private fees, you can easily feel that people are only in it for the money.

[purple_fins]

Thanks for pointing this out Terry123.
After I'd read that post about the issue being making so much money-- I wondered if it's a cultural thing... coming from the US, I wondered if that poster was coming from a different place.

best to all
fins

[Perna]

I don't equate being helpful with being a "do-gooder" and think any customer service job or occupation, from working at McDonald's to being a doctor in the ER could be seen as being helpful but I think of a certain individual mindset as being that of a "do-gooder" in the pejorative sense I think it was meant.

I equate "do-gooder" with "busy-body", not with a caring individual. Most people care about someone/something in greater or lesser degree; I just took a compassion survey http://www.authentichappiness.sas.up...t.aspx?id=1339 and came out as being "somewhat" compassionate. I think individuals are more/less compassionate about different things and just because one is a therapist, doesn't mean one is necessarily very "caring" about others, in general, though that probably helps with job satisfaction, but there are other reasons one could choose that job. Enjoying meeting other people, being an extrovert could be a factor and then, once you "meet" and get to know a person, like with therapy, you would then care more about that person because you know that person better. But I don't think therapists necessarily just pick clients off the street, "Hey, you look like you need help!"

[yellowted]

When I was in primary school all those years ago my Deputy Head Teacher actually told us bluntly that if she wasn't getting paid okay for her job, she wouldn't do it. I forget the exact topic which made her say that, but it's true. There is money involved in the motivation, definitely.[/quote]

sorry but i totally disagree, in some cases maybe, but in my case definitely not, ok i owned a pre school nursery, but it was certainly not the money that kept me there, i did not earn any, not a penny after paying the bills and my staff!!! even as a nanny i was payed less than favourably! I did it for the love of children, to give back to society the knowledge i had, and to ensure the children i looked after did not have to put up with a childhood like mine was! even now i am unable to work, i still feel it is a good thing to help others and do so as much as i can, be it with finding practicle solutions, helping their self esteem to grow or passing on my knowledge/experience. it is just my nature i think, the world is split into helpers and receivers, without either the world would be so different. be happy with who you are, because that is what makes the world so diverse and interesting

[yellowted]

TERRY123 you should be elegible for CBT for free on the NHS as it is widely offered by GP's now especially as government is trying to push mental health back to GP's to save money! i would talk to your GP or m/h team again if i was you, there is no way you should have to pay for it in England, trust me i know! if he still refuses try talking to you PCT or PALS(patient advice liason service) it is a free service!