[madisgram]

i've been a member of pc for a while. an observation of members's posts is that there are an incredible number of really knowledgeable/intelligent ppl here. i wonder if the knowledge we seek to improve ourselves has given us a gift of self understanding of life and how it all works through therapy. sometimes i have to fight my "demons" but by using therapy as a means of "how one ticks" i have acquired more understanding and skills/tools to improve my own outlook and understanding about life in general. i also "see" this in many posts even if they are struggling sometimes too. we are "forced" to reflect on how to fix things.
so in many ways, speaking for myself, my dx has given me a gift because i've had to learn things i may never have problem solved had i not had these challenges in life.
any thoughts on this? what say you?

[Fresia]

I was always introspective, reflective, and very mindful and caring of others. If it weren't for the illness(es), treatments, and therapies, they do provide the need for greater understanding into the mind, body, and soul, and have provided deeper insight into a great many things. I can also sympathize and empathize with others in more situations than before. I still cannot think of the illnesses themselves as positive gifts however, just can't, would much rather be without them, but what has come of it has been a blessing as have tried to make the best of them. It has made me who I am today, and for that, I am grateful.

[madisgram]

so agree with u, fresia. i used to say to my T, "i don't do life very well". it was really thru therapy that i gained the knowledge to understand the dynamics of life be it with others or my own perspective of self. i really didn't know how to cope at all prior to that. any conflict be it ever so small would throw me into despair cause i didn't know when to throw off the false thoughts i had about myself or interactions with others. i'm still trying to improve and understand but before therapy in particular, justme, i really didn't do life well at all! even if i felt misunderstood i still blamed me. often times that was such an irrational conclusion. today i have some ability to recognize what is mine and what isn't. i can function so much better because of this most of the time. it has helped me immensely to not internalize and stuff things which caused deep depression. today i can tap into the reserve of knowledge that i have learned.

[Muser]

Originally Posted by madisgram

today i can tap into the reserve of knowledge that i have learned.

And I for one have benefited greatly from the knowledge you have shared

[pachyderm]

I have found more emotionally healthy people here than anywhere else in my life. People who are trying to get there, at least. Maybe necessity really is the mother of invention.

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I have found more emotionally healthy people here than anywhere else in my life. People who are trying to get there, at least. Maybe necessity really is the mother of invention.

well i second that, pachy, re emotionally healthy ppl here than anywhere else....and/or at least striving to be the best we can be.

Those half a bubble off center have a different slant on things.

[Ygrec23]

Oh, Madisgram! I agree entirely with what you say regarding the general intelligence and insight of PC members. And the value of therapy. Unfortunately, I do not see those positive qualities and experiences necessarily connecting with either happiness or enjoyment of life. The quantity of suffering expressed here on PC is, to me, substantial. Regardless of the positive attributes and skills of the individuals involved. I don't see that the two sides, intelligence and insight on the one hand and happiness or just equanimity on the other, are in any way connected. I'd much rather be far, far dumber than I am and pleased with life than smart and miserable. Take care.

[Omers]

So many times I have to agree with Ygrec23. Most of the pain of my life is because I know enough to really understand how much I am impacted by my challenges. I would often prefer the peace of ignorance... alas I am an academic snob through and through.

[JAZZY10]

Originally Posted by madisgram

so in many ways, speaking for myself, my dx has given me a gift because i've had to learn things i may never have problem solved had i not had these challenges in life.
any thoughts on this? what say you?

Yes, I do have many thoughts on the matter in fact there is a name for it "hypercoherence" but in reality the mental health fraternity is generally under staffed, under educated, and really not able to spend enough time with any patient to give them adequate treatment SO, we switch on the SELF RESCUE part of our brain that most of us have available and put it to work. Often we find answers that are not in any text book (or they may be finding their way by now I have told enough people of some of them). Other than that it may be our root problem, that of Narcissistic Grandiosity, thinking we know more than the ignorant doctors and medical staff do.

Let cynicism rule or they will fool the lot of us.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by Omers

So many times I have to agree with Ygrec23. Most of the pain of my life is because I know enough to really understand how much I am impacted by my challenges. I would often prefer the peace of ignorance... alas I am an academic snob through and through.

Don't call yourself a snob, Omers. It's entirely unnecessary. People can be intelligent, educated and insightful without being snobs. (Don't look at me, though. I started out a long time ago as a snob and had it all beaten out of me by the back alley roughhouse of life.) There were a lot of really, really admirable ignorant people from whom I'm descended. I love them dearly. They were kind and good. My advice: make peace with your real ancestors. Take care!

[Lizabelle]

I must agree with Omers and Ygrec23. Ignorance is bliss sometimes. A lot of people in my life have said that I had "people skills" (before my illness), which is what a lot of PC members seem to acquire. So I have gained nothing by this, nothing but heartache. I, for one, would rather not have any idea how far I would go to rid myself of the pain inside of me. I have always been a smarty-pants, but until now, only academically. How I wish that I was not one emotionally....

Take care, all of you.

Thank you for this thread, madisgram. Yes, mental illness is the source of much suffering. According to the World Health Organization:

The toll of mental disorders is high. Currently 450 million people suffer from some form of mental or brain disorder, including alcohol and substance abuse disorders. One in four families has at least one member who is affected. Projections from 1990 to 2020 suggest that the portion of the global burden of disease attributable to mental and brain disorders will rise to 15%. Depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, alcohol dependence, Alzheimer’s and other dementias are all found among the 13 leading causes of years lived with disability. http://apps.who.int/gb/archive/pdf_f...A55/ea5518.pdf

As one who has been told I have a treatment resistant illness I thought about snuffing out the candle and cursing the darkness. Instead, I choose to do what I could to make a more meaningful life. I wish I could say I succeeded with flying colors. I cannot. My life, however, is much better than is was twenty years ago.

Accepting full responsibility for my well-being was a key and still is. I do not view myself as particularly smart. I can be tenacious and have persevered. I do not envy anyone else. I try to accept who I am, peccadilloes and fallibilities included. Dealing with my deficiencies will always be a work in process.

Accepting myself, learning to forgive, and being ever inquisitive have served me well. Knowledge is power. Ignorance may be bliss but it is not for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority
http://helpguide.org/mental/mental_emotional_health.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dep...n-blog/MY01565
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dep...atment/MY00751

I would be remiss without mentioning the help from my Mom. She would frequently call me before I had a therapy session and tell me to "shut up and listen." Hehehehe

[Skully]

Personally, when I am diagnosed with something I research it to death! I want to know everything there is to know about it whether it is mental health or physical health. I have spend hours researching and talking to psychiatrist (I worked in mental health so I had access to the doctors at the facility who were always willing to talk to me). So I had the opportunity to ask the doctors a lot of questions about bipolar and ADHD. I think that help to make me as knowledgable as I am about bipolar and the medications that treat it.

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Oh, Madisgram! I agree entirely with what you say regarding the general intelligence and insight of PC members. And the value of therapy. Unfortunately, I do not see those positive qualities and experiences necessarily connecting with either happiness or enjoyment of life. The quantity of suffering expressed here on PC is, to me, substantial. Regardless of the positive attributes and skills of the individuals involved. I don't see that the two sides, intelligence and insight on the one hand and happiness or just equanimity on the other, are in any way connected. I'd much rather be far, far dumber than I am and pleased with life than smart and miserable. Take care.

i find that those of us who over-intellectualize things, having nothing to do with real intelligence, have a harder road to tow. it creates a barrier that is a "harder nut to crack." i had to learn to bypass/overcome those qualities to feel what was inside me to enable me to grow. it was only then that i made progress to develop the skills/tools i needed. this helped me to take possession of my therapy rather than being the audience. my therapist told me he would not direct/own my therapy. the responsibility was mine in order for me to get better.

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by Lizabelle

I must agree with Omers and Ygrec23. Ignorance is bliss sometimes. A lot of people in my life have said that I had "people skills" (before my illness), which is what a lot of PC members seem to acquire. So I have gained nothing by this, nothing but heartache. I, for one, would rather not have any idea how far I would go to rid myself of the pain inside of me. I have always been a smarty-pants, but until now, only academically. How I wish that I was not one emotionally....

Take care, all of you.

lizbelle, they say no pain, no gain. i learned i had to go through that pain to grow. but i had to be courageous to do this. it was not easy for me. however there was a huge payoff of peace and serenity rather than the emotional turmoil i lived with for so many years. i learned to love myself too. that was an incredible gift by working through this in therapy with a T that helped me know i was safe to look at the demons inside me. i hope you can find this same peace one day.

[sarek]

I think the human brain is another one of natures very delicate balancing acts. In this case the balance is between order on the one side and total chaos on the other. Order is predictability, sameness. Performing tasks without fail to perfection. But never doing anything new, never creating.

Chaos is the other extreme. Ideas and creative thoughts fly about wildly but without any result because they never quite come to fruition.

Most humans are somewhere in the middle between these extremes. It seems nature will always try to shift the balance as far towards the edge of chaos as it can without going over it. That allows the maximum amount of adaptability.

Yet some brains somehow end up on the chaotic side of the spectrum. It causes any number of side effects like depression, ADD, schizophrenia, autism. But on the flip side such people are regularly able to do things that orderly brains can never hope to match.

I am challenging you to take a look around at all the people in history who have been an important influence. Painters, composers, performing artists, inventors, philosophers, scientists, arguably maybe even statesmen. I think you will find many neurodiverse people among them. In fact you will be hard pressed to find many who are not neurodiverse.

It is simply a coin with two sides. Creativity comes with complexity. The creative mind has trouble following the linear path that is set out for the majority of people.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by madisgram

i find that those of us who over-intellectualize things, having nothing to do with real intelligence, have a harder road to tow. it creates a barrier that is a "harder nut to crack." i had to learn to bypass/overcome those qualities to feel what was inside me to enable me to grow. it was only then that i made progress to develop the skills/tools i needed. this helped me to take possession of my therapy rather than being the audience. my therapist told me he would not direct/own my therapy. the responsibility was mine in order for me to get better.

As most of us know well, "intellectualization" is just another defense mechanism. It doesn't necessarily mean that the sufferer is an "intellectual." And like all defense mechanisms it/they do have to be overcome for us to make progress. I know exactly what you're talking about when you say "I had to learn to bypass/overcome those qualities to feel what was inside..." Learning to be able to "feel" what's really bothering you is quite a trick. After all, that "feeling" is just what we've been trying to escape from all these years. It's like a Japanese bath: dip your toe in and it's so hot you think you'll die if you actually get into it. And then when you do get into it, it's actually pretty good. As someone said here (I think), it's not IQ that helps you, it's "EQ," i.e., emotional understanding.
Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by sarek

I am challenging you to take a look around at all the people in history who have been an important influence. Painters, composers, performing artists, inventors, philosophers, scientists, arguably maybe even statesmen. I think you will find many neurodiverse people among them. In fact you will be hard pressed to find many who are not neurodiverse. It is simply a coin with two sides. Creativity comes with complexity. The creative mind has trouble following the linear path that is set out for the majority of people.

I think you're right, Sarek. Most eminent people seem to have been "neurodiverse" (love that word!). However, I cannot help but believe, strongly, that the vast majority of "neurodiverse" people would instantly trade in their "neurodiversity" for a life free of psychological pain, however humdrum or tedious. Nor do I believe that the human race or any particular society necessarily depends on having "neurodiverse" members in order to achieve growth or improvement. To believe that they do so depend really means reinstituting human sacrifice as a common religious practice. I think (I certainly hope) that we're past such a stage. And we're almost, almost, almost past the stage where there's just nothing we can do about "neurodiversity" so we might as well accept and celebrate it. Like smallpox, polio, malaria and a host of other diseases, when (not if) we have the power to eradicate serious mental pain, I most assuredly hope that we will do so and not continue to insist that for society's good a minority must be sacrificed to suffer all their lives. Take care.

[sarek]

I do think you are right Ygrec23. I am pretty sure my gf would gladly do without her schizophrenia and she wont be the only one preferring a normal life.
I can only speak for myself as an ADDer really. We are a mixed bag in fact with some being ok with the way we are despite the difficulty and pain it brings.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by sarek

We are a mixed bag...

Everything is! All have advantages and disadvantages, and even those can change depending on the demands of the situation.

[Muser]

To the intellectuals...if I have to google words from your replies then you are defiantly smarter that the average bear but that's what I like about this exchange of ideas....knowledge is growth. And even when I don't "understand" ....when you're talking over my head...it still causes me to pause and reflect.

I may have to do a little research to figure out what your talking about but for me that is part of the process.

Thinking...feeling....maybe gaining a little perspective....works for me

[SophiaG]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

The quantity of suffering expressed here on PC is, to me, substantial.

Agreed.

There's a TON of it here.