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  #26  
Old Jan 21, 2011, 08:39 AM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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Originally Posted by Ygrec23 View Post
Like I was left behind. Or one of the crippled children who didn't make it into Nirvana with the Pied Piper of Hamelin. Hmmm.
Hmmm indeed. You want to follow the Pied Piper? Beware.
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  #27  
Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pachyderm View Post
Hmmm indeed. You want to follow the Pied Piper? Beware.
WantED: (past tense). Oh, very much so. Just as in Pinnochio I, like him, very much wanted to be a real little boy.
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  #28  
Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygrec23 View Post
I then spent my life safe inside myself until the recession arrived and required me for the first time in my life to be much more outgoing and aggressive. That first made me s******l and then forced me into therapy last summer.
That happened to me when I was 20 and realized I had to graduate from college and wander out into the world all by myself
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  #29  
Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:12 PM
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That happened to me when I was 20 and realized I had to graduate from college and wander out into the world all by myself
You know, Perna, so very, very unfortunately all that kind of stuff (getting through school (any kind of school), graduating and getting diplomas) was just so ridiculously easy for me. I've coasted my entire life until about 3 years ago. Didn't have a choice, of course. Hitting on one cylinder all the way. I envy you. I really, REALLY, would have preferred that this had happened in my twenties or thirties. Falling apart, I mean. It's particularly hell when it happens shortly before you pass away. Take care!
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  #30  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 04:24 AM
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It seems to me that you are on the right path to overcome your social problems. You have identified your difficulties and gone to therapy. It's going to take a long time but hey that's what we have most until our cycle is over. It is possible that you have a dissorder, your therapy will help you with that. What I can suggest you is to observe or remember how other people behave in social situations and it works. Discover little by little what are the behaviors that elicit positive reactions from others and in groups, as well as which are the behaviors that screw things up. I am not saying that you become someone you are not or imitate to the letter someone else's personality. But make it a point to "study" the social subtle rules and messages people go by at work, or school, at the market, in gatherings, church etc. You have gotten into the habit of not listening to people and you have to break it. There's all kinds of people in this world some will like you, some will hate you, and some will be impartial, try to stay around the ones who like you. Open your heart to good people and let them love you and like you. Yes you are not perfect, but nobody is. We are contradictory creatures, with wonderfull virtues and ugly flaws. Enjoy the positive things people have, forgive the ugly ones. Something very important is to put yourself in the other's shoes. Sometimes we don't hear or see ourselves hurting people, but we get a clue by his/her reactions. Apologize inmediately and ASK what you did to hurt them.
Good luck in your therapy, as I said you will overcome this issue at least in a 50% but it won't be easy neither quick. Wish you the best.
  #31  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ygrec23 View Post
It's particularly hell when it happens shortly before you pass away.
Actually I think getting to our age and having trouble is expected. I'm not having a bed of roses here with no job/being retired, no "purpose" anymore, trying to figure how what I'm supposed to do/feel the next 15-25 years without a purpose, looking forward to my husband/companion dying before me probably and having to live on after my heart is broken.

I think toward the end one works on all the stuff one put off/didn't realize before but one has all one's life experiences (and there have been a whole lot!) to sift through and put together in one's own impressionist painting But yes, a lot of the pieces are broken glass and cut when one handles them to see where they should go.
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  #32  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 09:59 AM
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lynn P. lynn P. is offline
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You know, Perna, so very, very unfortunately all that kind of stuff (getting through school (any kind of school), graduating and getting diplomas) was just so ridiculously easy for me. I've coasted my entire life until about 3 years ago.
What you said in this post, got me thinking and I mentioned this before too. You seem like a highly intelligent person and it's not good for your intelligence to sit idle. I think you need to find a passion in your life or volunteer, so you can be of service to people. I heard you say before, that you basically live for your wife and that's admirable but I don't hear you saying, 'you're living for YOU' and that's the vital difference between 'existing' and 'living'.

Another thing I wanted to mention is - many older men don't realize their hormones shift a great deal as they get older too. A low testosterone level can make a man feel down and sluggish. You also need to do some form of exercise.
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Last edited by lynn P.; Jan 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM. Reason: correction
Thanks for this!
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  #33  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
What I can suggest you is to observe or remember how other people behave in social situations and it works. Discover little by little what are the behaviors that elicit positive reactions from others and in groups, as well as which are the behaviors that screw things up.
Well, Turquesa, I thank you very much for your serious thoughts on the matter, obviously worked out at great length and with serious consideration. The main problem is, though, that since early childhood I've had a real difficulty correctly observing other people and drawing correct conclusions. When I observe a group of people, I see what my unconscious permits me to see and no more. It's a kind of semi-blindness.

Quote:
But make it a point to "study" the social subtle rules and messages people go by at work, or school, at the market, in gatherings, church etc.
Oh yes, you are right. And I do study them. Only I see the wrong things. And draw the wrong conclusions. If your mind is messed up, it's very possible that you will see things and not understand them correctly.

Quote:
You have gotten into the habit of not listening to people and you have to break it.
I do listen to people, Turquesa, I do. The trouble is that I often can't hear what they're really saying, and think they're saying things they really aren't. It's a mess.

Quote:
Good luck in your therapy, as I said you will overcome this issue at least in a 50% but it won't be easy neither quick. Wish you the best.
Thank you very much, Turquesa. I will remember and pay attention to your kind comments. Through therapy, I hope to be able in the future to see and hear accurately, so I can then draw correct conclusions about what people like and dislike, and what it is best to do. Take care!
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  #34  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Perna View Post
Actually I think getting to our age and having trouble is expected.
I thought these were supposed to be our "golden years" and we were just supposed to slack off and have a good time!

Quote:
I'm not having a bed of roses here with no job/being retired, no "purpose" anymore, trying to figure how what I'm supposed to do/feel the next 15-25 years without a purpose, looking forward to my husband/ companion dying before me probably and having to live on after my heart is broken.
Being still preoccupied with trying to "make a living" I don't really have time to worry about "purpose" or being "without purpose" or even living without my wife. I have a strong feeling that being "without purpose" wouldn't bother me much if at all. It would be very strange to live without my wife of 42 years but I think I'm up to the challenge. I don't know if she is, though. But as things are going now, I think chances are that she'll go before I do.

Quote:
I think toward the end one works on all the stuff one put off/didn't realize before but one has all one's life experiences (and there have been a whole lot!) to sift through and put together in one's own impressionist painting
Oh! Life experiences! I have yet to see a junkyard (and I've seen many) that wasn't better than the aggregate of my so-called "life experiences"! Talk about garbage! As for working on the stuff I put off, that means EVERYTHING! I think I'd rather dissociate forever and keep smoking and drinking til I die. Take care!
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  #35  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lynn P. View Post
I think you need to find a passion in your life or volunteer, so you can be of service to people. I heard you say before, that you basically live for your wife and that's admirable but I don't hear you saying, 'you're living for YOU' and that's the vital difference between 'existing' and 'living'.
Yeah, lynn. I have a passion: it's called "paying the bills." And I'm still working on it. I don't really think I have room for another passion (except PC) until I've figured out how to pay the bills. Yes, it's true. If my wife weren't here I wouldn't be here. Otherwise I entertain myself with reading on the net what all the 3 billion crazy people in the world have to say (assuming the other 3 billion people are sane.)

Quote:
Another thing I wanted to mention is - many older men don't realize their hormones shift a great deal as they get older too. A low testosterone level can make a man feel down and sluggish. You also need to do some form of exercise.
It's very true, what you say. In fact, I'll tell you something NO OTHER man will tell you: when men's testosterone sinks, THEY GET HOT FLASHES! And no, there's not a SINGLE other man in the world who will admit it other than me. But that's over now and, hormone-wise, I'm feeling okay, whatever the level may be. As to exercise, you're right. Take care!
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We must love one another or die.
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Ygrec23
Thanks for this!
lynn P.
  #36  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:03 PM
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ahh ygrec, paying bills is a thing, an action...a passion is feeling somethin' strongly. (know you know the difference. couldn't resist )
in reading this thread i "hear" from you that you are miserably unhappy with your past life and now. pardon me if i'm wrong. i had that prob in spades once and here's what has worked for me. perhaps you'll give it a go too. rather than looking backwards at my life/past and ponder over the what-ifs and i'd be happy if only this hadn't/had happened..i learned with the help of my T to stay in the now, albeit uncomfortable at times. for if i don't live in today what would give my life meaning? joy..or even sadness? i learned how to feel true happiness just because i was alive. i don't wish to regret not enjoying what is "given" to me at this moment. it pains me to see you struggle with life. course we all struggle to find the right fit, but your mind must be on overload with all this conflict within you or around you, imho. i believe humanity at large has to conquer the demons we all experience.
i'm putting it out "here" simply stated. i may be in the wrong ballpark, idk.
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Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle.
The world you desired can be won. It exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours..~Ayn Rand
  #37  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 06:51 PM
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Oh, no, madisgram. You're definitely in the right ballpark. You've got me dead to rights. And that's always flattering. You are quite correct. I haven't had an enjoyable or satisfying life and I'm fed up with it. To the point that I don't think I'd be bothered having it end right now. But I'm way beyond "what-ifs." It isn't a question of what I've done wrong in the past. Like all so many others I've been so messed up in the head since the beginning that I can't blame myself or really blame anyone else. It's just something that's happened.

As to staying in the "now," I do believe you're right. If I could only get into a "now" that's even halfway bearable. In other words, when and if I get our financial problems resolved, I may be able to do that. Before then, however wrong I may be, I kind of doubt that it will be possible. It shouldn't take all that terribly long (I'm thinking in terms of months, not years), but understand that this is not a "marital" problem: it's entirely on my head. Which I resent, it's true, but that's the way it is.

A long, long time ago someone gave me a paperback copy of "Be Here Now" by (of course) Baba Ram Dass (or Weinstein or whatever his name was). And it was a VERY good book. But it's long since disappeared and I don't have the money for another copy. I have the idea that he was talking about what YOU are talking about now. And, frankly, I have no doubt that you're right. Living in the "now" is the only thing for people of our age to do. There's no other choice if you want to take advantage of what you have in your hand.

And not only that, I actually have a "role model" in that regard. My paternal grandfather. Probably the most laid-back, happy-in-the-now, smelling-the-flowers person I ever met. He was an old-fashioned American working man. Born and raised on his father's chicken farm in Rhode Island with his five brothers. From which he escaped (after a third-grade education) at the age of fourteen to run around the country as a hobo riding the rails. And be a miner in Colorado and Idaho. And serve in the army (under a false name) in California. And finally wind up as a butcher boy in various parts of the east, which he did for the rest of his life until his son (my father) was successful enough to hire his own father as the head of his factory's loading dock. This man knew how to enjoy every breath he took. And he passed that on to his grandsons, though I don't know how he did it. If I can just get this daily economy thing down, I think I can live like he did. I just want to be able to pay the bills. Take care!

Quote:
Originally Posted by madisgram View Post
ahh ygrec, paying bills is a thing, an action...a passion is feeling somethin' strongly. (know you know the difference. couldn't resist ) in reading this thread i "hear" from you that you are miserably unhappy with your past life and now. pardon me if i'm wrong. i had that prob in spades once and here's what has worked for me. perhaps you'll give it a go too. rather than looking backwards at my life/past and ponder over the what-ifs and i'd be happy if only this hadn't/had happened..i learned with the help of my T to stay in the now, albeit uncomfortable at times. for if i don't live in today what would give my life meaning? joy..or even sadness? i learned how to feel true happiness just because i was alive. i don't wish to regret not enjoying what is "given" to me at this moment. it pains me to see you struggle with life. course we all struggle to find the right fit, but your mind must be on overload with all this conflict within you or around you, imho. i believe humanity at large has to conquer the demons we all experience.
i'm putting it out "here" simply stated. i may be in the wrong ballpark, idk.
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We must love one another or die.
W.H. Auden
We must love one another AND die.
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  #38  
Old Jan 25, 2011, 07:47 PM
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Respect to your paternal grandfather, Ygrec. ***hand over heart***
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  #39  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:24 AM
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thanks for your thoughtful reply, ygrec. now in your response you stated:

"As to staying in the "now," I do believe you're right. If I could only get into a "now" that's even halfway bearable. In other words, when and if I get our financial problems resolved, I may be able to do that. Before then, however wrong I may be, I kind of doubt that it will be possible. It shouldn't take all that terribly long (I'm thinking in terms of months, not years), but understand that this is not a "marital" problem (no, i ddn't refernce that as what "it is'): it's entirely on my head. Which I resent, it's true, but that's the way it is."

you can do a 180 and turn your perspective in another direction rather than, "but that's just the way it is". it doesn't have to be the way it is. ok i'll play devil's advocate here. take me for instance. i had always planned ahead with investments, was monetarily successful working and living in manhatten, and planned an early retirement at age 60. i was movin' and groovin'.
then up popped life with it's funny sense of humor. i was pulled out on disability way too young per doctors' orders. they (6 of them in cahoots) submitted the paperwork due to health issues that i was paying no heed to. full speed ahead says i, and ignoring their strong warnings re my health. (they cared enough about me and wanted to help me have a longer life span.) i pitched, ranted, raved...said, well i don't feel sick! what's all this bother? i finally accepted the NOW.
i went from making booco money to living on LTD and SS disability. (thank God i had invested heavily my whole career. (i'll get back to that in a minute.) since 1998 my income is SS and LTD, that ends in 2 years. i receive paltry increases in SS benefits, except nada from them for the last 2 years, and my company LTD reduces the same amount when SS is increased. so no gain. i've lived on the same fixed income since 1998 when i thought the figure was waaayyy too little to live off of.
fast forward to now and the current cost of living index. i'm still back in 1998 income wise. the exact amount. last year i had $15,000 for my medical deductible alone on my income tax return. if i didn't have those investments, that i now sell to pay for medical costs, i'd be living at poverty level in 2 years. when the investments run out, if i live that long, the only income i'll have is SS disability. i'm illustrating my no win monetary situation and i'm still relativitively young!!...in the NOW.
how i view my monetary challenges: i thank God i had some systems in place-LTD, whick i took out as a health insurance option when i was young and didn't even foresee any health complication and the wise choice i made to squirrel money away rather than living like a queen-ok, well i did splurge sometimes.
my attitude re my monetary status: i look at young families that owned their first homes now living in a shelter. the parents may or may not be employed due to this "brave new world" we live in. they rely on salvation army to feed them. they have no health insurance. they are stripped so bare that they can't possibly be able to muster hope or see change/improvement on the horizon.
for me it's an attitude adjustment. i can be looking at the glass half empty awaiting for the future to miraculously change or see it half full and be eternally grateful for what i possess in the NOW. i can't put conditions on my situation or outcome. but i can change my outlook and attitude.
i'm glad u had that wonderful grandfather in your life. you can live by his example right NOW!
whay say u? OOOPPS sorry for the long post.
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Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle.
The world you desired can be won. It exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours..~Ayn Rand
Thanks for this!
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  #40  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 08:36 AM
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sorry forgot one thing. i am in no way minimizing your financial concerns. they are real. i'm just attempting to put your dilemma in balance in how you can perceive it. yes, you must be struggling to hold head over water. yes, it's most difficult but it does not define you or what your life can be if you strive to change your perspective. everything need not be contingent on what you have or don't have. everything else need not be put on hold.
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Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle.
The world you desired can be won. It exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours..~Ayn Rand
  #41  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 11:28 AM
Emotional Ninja Emotional Ninja is offline
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Hi. I am a 59 yr old female who has been a weirdo all her life. Please read my profile to get a better idea of just some of the things I have had to deal with over the last 55 years. I have no idea if this will help you, but it may give you some info for consideration. When I started school at the age of 6 I was immediately branded as a weirdo. I was too smart, spoke in a different way (small rural school, not allowed to speak country at home) did not understand or like childish things. Could not understand the other children, frankly thought they were ignorant and stupid. They in turn considered me arrogant and intimidating. I still feel the same way about those kids as well as 99% of the people I have met since. I was socially,and emtionally tortured my entire school life. By the time I was 18 and going into the work force I realized I had two choices, adapt or die. So, I began a conscious effort to adapt. I studied people like lab rats. I was also excruciatingly shy. And thus began my acting career. By this point in time I deserve several Oscars. I can be anything and anyone you want me to be. And, at this point in time, it is effortless. Tiresome, but first nature, rather than second. I realize that at our age it is a little late for you to do this. Just sharing my survival mechanism. Also, I started out with exactly the same feelings that you now describe. My heart goes out to you. Frankly, I don't know that the problem is with you. Have you ever considered that you may just me more evolved than most other people? Perhaps it's they who simply cannot come up to your level? Many people fail to conform to society's standards, and many of them acheive greatness. I know this does not help answer you questions, but know that you are not alone. Please read my profile and send me a private message anytime. Good luck.
  #42  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:52 PM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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I studied people like lab rats.
You mean you studied people as though they were lab rats, or you studied them as lab rats would?
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When all have given him o'er
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  #43  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 01:05 PM
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Ygrec23 Ygrec23 is offline
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Respect to your paternal grandfather, Ygrec. ***hand over heart***
MUCH respect. He and his buddies were all in their sixties or seventies when I knew them, but they all reminded me of happy little boys, like the seven dwarfs in Snow White. All checking the racing data in the New York Mirror (Price: Three Cents) for their two-dollar bets; all smoking cigarettes; all drinking beer and playing pinochle and laughing and having a completely innocent good time. There used to be neighborhoods filled with men like this. Take care!
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W.H. Auden
We must love one another AND die.
Ygrec23
  #44  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 01:16 PM
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You made me stop and think there, madisgram. Accepting the now. In light of what you've said, I get a better understanding of what I'm actually doing. What I'm really doing when I talk about the financial stuff is saying that I'll be able to live in the now when my anxiety level is lower than it is at present. And that's it. Forget finances, it's ANXIETY that makes it harder for me to live in the now. And I've had GAD all my life. Can I just walk away from the anxiety? Grandpa certainly did. But the good mental genes were all on his side of the family. Mom's side had the bad ones and I got a good dose of those. I'll really have to think about this, though I'm sure I've got it right: anxiety is the culprit. Thanks! Take care!

Quote:
Originally Posted by madisgram View Post
my attitude re my monetary status: i look at young families that owned their first homes now living in a shelter. the parents may or may not be employed due to this "brave new world" we live in. they rely on salvation army to feed them. they have no health insurance. they are stripped so bare that they can't possibly be able to muster hope or see change/improvement on the horizon. for me it's an attitude adjustment. i can be looking at the glass half empty awaiting for the future to miraculously change or see it half full and be eternally grateful for what i possess in the NOW. i can't put conditions on my situation or outcome. but i can change my outlook and attitude. i'm glad u had that wonderful grandfather in your life. you can live by his example right NOW! whay say u? OOOPPS sorry for the long post.
__________________
We must love one another or die.
W.H. Auden
We must love one another AND die.
Ygrec23
  #45  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 01:36 PM
Emotional Ninja Emotional Ninja is offline
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Originally Posted by pachyderm View Post
You mean you studied people as though they were lab rats, or you studied them as lab rats would?
Forgive my lack of formal education. I was busy surviving. Just trying to ease a fellow beings pain. And anyway, would it matter? Lab rats may in fact be studying us even as we study them. How would we know?
Thanks for this!
FooZe, lonegael, TheByzantine
  #46  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 03:44 PM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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Originally Posted by Emotional Ninja View Post
Lab rats may in fact be studying us even as we study them. How would we know?
I was teasing you.
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When all have given him o'er
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Thou might'st him yet recover
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  #47  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 05:18 PM
Emotional Ninja Emotional Ninja is offline
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Originally Posted by pachyderm View Post
I was teasing you.
Sorry, I have avoidance, dependent, and obsessive compulsive disorders and are working thru them on my own. So 55 years after they began I am still a work in progress. Thank you for even responding to me. I can be overly sensitve a lot because frankly most people don't get me at all and think I am a weirdo. Which I am and I am totally O.K. with. This site is the only place I let others see the real me. In life I am a chameleon to make things easy.
Thanks for this!
FooZe, lonegael, pachyderm, Ygrec23
  #48  
Old Jan 26, 2011, 10:34 PM
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madisgram madisgram is offline
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Member Since: Nov 2008
Location: Sunny East Coast Florida!
Posts: 6,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ygrec23 View Post
You made me stop and think there, madisgram. Accepting the now. In light of what you've said, I get a better understanding of what I'm actually doing. What I'm really doing when I talk about the financial stuff is saying that I'll be able to live in the now when my anxiety level is lower than it is at present. And that's it. Forget finances, it's ANXIETY that makes it harder for me to live in the now. And I've had GAD all my life. Can I just walk away from the anxiety? Grandpa certainly did. But the good mental genes were all on his side of the family. Mom's side had the bad ones and I got a good dose of those. I'll really have to think about this, though I'm sure I've got it right: anxiety is the culprit. Thanks! Take care!
ahh the dreaded anxiety bug. got it too. i have had acute anxiety as far back as i remember, approx. age 4. therapy really helped me with this one. believe u see a T. are your sessions helping you to learn ways to minimize this? new coping skills, tools?
lol, what doesn't kill you, will make you stronger. works for me.
__________________
Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle.
The world you desired can be won. It exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours..~Ayn Rand
Thanks for this!
lonegael, Ygrec23
  #49  
Old Feb 11, 2011, 07:38 PM
Turquesa Turquesa is offline
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Member Since: Jan 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12
Thank you for acknowledging my post and being thorough. I am sorry your problem is complicated and eventhough you are concious you have it you can't control it. Nevertheless, be sure that one day will come in which the sum of all your efforts will result in what you are pursueing. Because there is an infalible formula:
Goal + planning + focus + effort/hard work + good decisions making = Achievement .
Thanks for this!
Ygrec23
  #50  
Old Feb 11, 2011, 07:41 PM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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Member Since: Jun 2007
Location: Washington DC metro area
Posts: 15,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Goal + planning + focus + effort/hard work + good decisions making = Achievement .
Ah. Good decision-making. There's the rub...
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Now if thou would'st
When all have given him o'er
From death to life
Thou might'st him yet recover
-- Michael Drayton 1562 - 1631
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