good move? or bad move?

I am going to tell my son all about his mother, my side of the story if you will, every time I see my son, which is not often, twice this year only, he asks me questions why I left his mom and left him, I keep on changing the subject as I felt he was not old enough to understand, he is only 7, I know feel this is the right time to tell him the truth.

his mom has instilled into him that I am a waste of space and that not to get to attached as I will ultimately leave him again, what he doesn’t understand is that I didn’t leave him, I left her, and she is the one stopping me from seeing him as often as I would like. It took me nearly 3 years to get to see him and that was only after visiting her works, and harassing her every day after she stopped taking my phone calls,

I had friends who worked in the same office has her, who also applied pressure to her to let me see him, they were her friends also until they saw the way she was treating me and denying me access to my son. She eventually caved after I told her I was applying for a court order to see him and it would mean I would see him during the week, during working hours and she would have to bring him whether she wanted to or not, and she would lose money. That eventually worked, I see him on weekends so it doesn’t affect her working week, I am not out to get her I just want to see my son.

I don’t want to lie to him has I know it will come back and bite me on the *** in later years, as it did with me and my dad, I swore my son would never go threw the same things as me as a child, I was told I was abandoned by my mother when I was 2 ½ years old, and my dad had gotten me made a ward of court as she didn’t want to know, I believed that for a while, but when my dad wouldn’t answer even the simplest of questions about her I became suspicious about what really happened, and now with the same situation happening to me and my son I don’t believe anything he has said to me regarding my own mother. I became severely depressed and hospitalised at the age of 13 that is when I started to SI, I left home at 15 and have been looking after myself since then, I have tried to track down my mother but to no avail, none of the “family” will talk about her even though my dad died 5 years ago.

If I don’t put a stop to the rot his mother keeps telling him about me I will lose him forever, I am going to tell him his mom had 3 affairs that I know of whilst we were married, she is still with the last 1 and he as brought up my son as is own so this is not going to be easy, I know he is not going to trust what I say over his mom but to back up my side of the story I still have the divorce papers signed by her stating that I divorced her for adultery, I want my son to know that I didn’t leave him, I had no choice, when I left I had to buy a car to live in, if I had had some ware to take him, he would have gone with me.

Also stated on the divorce papers it says I can have unlimited reasonable access to my son with over night stays, this was a stipulation of the divorce, it shows that I want to see him, and it is her stopping me. every time I see him I tell him I would like to see him more but he just says it is up to mom, the choice should be his, if he likes seeing me when he asks to see me or phone me, he should be allowed to do so.

It does not bother me that I have to travel over 200 miles each way to see him and half the time I have to sleep rough for the weekend as I cant afford a hotel or bed and breakfast when I visit London. I know when I tell him about his mom it is going to be harder to see him, but what have I got to lose, I have seen him twice this year for a total of 8 hours, how am I supposed to build any kind of relationship with him in such a short period of time, I see my chemist for longer over the year. I know it is a gamble but it is one I am willing to take.

I really hope you rethink this. Information like this is too much for a small child. You need to be the grown up.

You can say things like ;"I wish I could see you everyday" "I have always wanted to be your dad and it's been hard to see you because we live so far away. Also sometimes people can't get along and that happened to your mom and I. I loved you and love you more then I can explain. I really want you to know that I will always be here for you and that I am proud to be your dad. Now take him outside and show him how grand the universe is and tell him that you are seeing the same moon, sun and stars as he is and that whenever you look up you think of him seeing the same things.

Pick a story book that speaks to always being forever together and read it to him everytime you see him. DO NOT SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT HIS MOM! You can hurt your son if you are too interested in truth and justice and not his wellbeing. He needs a loving papa.

i have tryed that wisewoman, i have a friend who is going threw the exact same thing with his son, his son was living with him until 2 weeks ago when he gave his son the choice of living with him or with his mom full time, he is also 7, he wants his son to live with him obviously, but he like me cannot talk to our exwifes in a cival manner, she like my ex constantly put us down in front of our sons, why should i be the bad guy? if his mom had kept her knickers on we would not be in this situation, he gave his son the option to live with his mom whilst the made his own mind up, that is a option i dont have.

And I am so sorry. However, you are the grown up. You can say that if he wonders about anything mommy says he can ask you and you will never ever lie. If he asks you a specific tell him a brief version of the tru th, if he pushes for more then tell him more, only as much as he wants to hear. He needs to feel that mommy is safe and will protect and by acting as above he will know you are safe and will protect. Also, letters, cards, jokes, anything in the mail or even email. Keep speaking with him in some way everyday so he knows you are his dad and are there for him. Find out his school curriculum and his special performance days and go. I didn't say it was easy, it really stinks. I just said what I know about child development. Good luck.

Mellors,

WW is giving you some very good advice here. Telling your son bad things about his mother will cause him to feel threatened and he will associate that feeling with you. I think it's wonderful that you are trying as hard as you are to get time with him. If you can make the time that you spend with him positive, and demonstrate your love for him and your honesty and willingness to be a good dad and to protect him, he will see for himself who you really are and will know that you care about him and are not abandoning him. Actions speak so much louder than words, especially to a child. You know how it felt to be told that your mother didn't care about you. It would feel the same way to him, and even worse when he depends on his mother to take care of him. I'm very sorry about what she has said about you, but the best way to counter that is by proving that you really are a loving father.

Wow - I really have to agree with Wisewoman 100%. I am so sorry that your son is not with you, that you see so little of him, and that his Mom doesnt tell him the truth, but if you try to explain to a 7 yr old all of what you said above, he has absolutely no way to understand it ! I can understand your frustration, since you went thru a bad childhood issue yourself, but he is ONLY 7 years old. PLEASE don't try to involve him in ADULT issues. He just will not understand ! If you say bad things about his Mother, that is stooping to her level. Be your son's safe place to fall, tell him how badly you want to see him all the time - but with the distance - you can't. Teach him how to phone you if he ever wants to talk to you.

Please only answer his questions about why you and his Mom are no longer married with an explanation about "some folks just cannot stay married, and they get a divorce from each other, but that does not mean you divorced HIM" etc. All children think it's their fault in some way - reassure him it had nothing to do with him.

Altho you state you and your ex cannot talk civilly - DO IT. Be the better person, talk to her and let her know that your court papers say you are supposed to be allowed to see your son regularly and that you want that to start ASAP ! Let her know that you want to have a good relationship with your son, and it's hard for you to have so little access. If she is not willing to meet you in the middle, so to speak, go thru the courts and let them set up RIGID rules for your time with him. You absolutely need to see him more than 2 times a year and then only for a few hours. Perhaps she will see the benefit to doing this willingly - it won't look good to the Courts if she doesnt work with you !

PLEASE - do not tell him the details about his Mother's activities that led to your divorce - he wont understand, and it is unfair to put that burden on him !

mellors,

i've come back to this thread many times and just couldn't put into words everything that i was feeling about your post. i'm going to try, but i know i won't completely succeed.

i can only go by personal experience here and what it did to the child in me when my parents told me much more than i could even process. it was confusing and devastating. also, i felt like then i didn't have ONE parent who cared enough or that i didn't doubt. that was a very insecure and scary feeling to have. they were trying to show me that they did care by pointing these things about about the other, but it had the opposite affect for a child who was too young to understand...a child about your son's age. it caused massive hurt and confusion. they were each telling me all these things about the other that i didn't really understand and it caused me to be afraid of each of them. ultimately, as a child, it all became my fault because children just tend to do that.

the thing that neither parent realized is that they didn't need to say any of those things for my love. in fact, my love and respect would have been greater if they hadn't because i then felt defensive for the other parent. i know you said that you don't have anything to lose, but your son might. it caused me great emotional upset that i remember to this day.

i'm just speaking from personal experience and don't know anyone in your situation well at all, so it might be entirely different. however, i know that alot of 7 yr olds aren't emotionally capable of handling adult issues and problems.

i would certainly reinforce the fact that you've always wanted to be with him more and that adult issues prevented it, but that those issues, even though they've had affect, can't change your love for him. i would work thru other avenues if i could...enforcing the visitation, strengthening the relationship with son so that as he gets older he'll know that you wanted to be with him more without it even having to be said, etc.

good luck (((((((((((((mellors))))))))))))) you're constantly in my thoughts.

kd

I wish my parents hadnt done this from either side when I was a kid. My mother would say one thing my biological father another thinking he was setting the story straight in the end I was the one who suffered nightmares, temper tantrums until finally my mother was awarded sole custody and My father lost visitation. When I grew up I found my biological father. He told me one story and my mother told me another. and you know what? the court papers say a mixture of both. I believe the court records. Like I tell my mom now and my biological father when I found him. What went on between them should have stayed with them. neither one had the right to pull me into it. a child is a person not a piece of property for people to say mine, no mine, Im the better parent because your dad or your mom bla bla bla. I hated both of them for years because of this. Take it from someone who has been there telling the child what went on between his mom and you is not the right move. My suggestion is contact a lawyer, therapist for your son. They will ensure your child is not being pulled into this from either side and the therapist is trained to explain these things at a child level. If you need to say anything my suggestion is "thats grown up stuff I'll answer your questions when you are a grown up." The child understands you aren't going to lie or not answer you just want him to get older.Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Mellors... here are my kid's words to me because I told them the truth about their other parent:

David, age 8: I know he's an ***, but he's MY ***. Stop raggin' on him to me!

Karla, age 12: I wish you had let me find out for MYself what an *** he is. I SEE him be an ***, you TELL me he's and *** and it hurts TWICE!

Chuck, age 30: What you said about my mom was way out of line! There was no call for it!

Now ask yourself if this is the response you want from your child, Hun.

I agree with WW. Tell him ONLY what he wants to know at the moment. His questions will get deeper as he gets older. PROVE to him by your ACTIONS how much you love him. Don't hurt him!

This isn't about you... it's about YOUR SON.

i understand what you are all saying, sorry ww my second post was a lashout not intended for you,

obviously i am not going to say anything about his moms infidelities,
i have told him i had no choice but to leave, he asks why, i cant answer without ragging on his mom, so my silence only reinforces what his mom has said about me.
i have told him it is her that is stopping him from seeing me more and that i send letters and stuff, he never gets them he told me.
i will move back to london if i had the option to see him more, but i dont, i have told him this already. i am only 4 hours away by train i told him, if he calls and says he wants to see me i can be down the same day i explained to him, mom wont let me use the phone to call you he replies.

every time i see him the questions are already getting harder to answer and i cant say ask your mom, because i KNOW she will turn it all into my fault, i feel like i cant defend the things she says about me without ragging on her, but enough is enough,

the people who know me in this forum know i say it how i see it, yet with my son i can say nowt in my defence without putting some if not all of the blame on his mom,

i have tryed the email thing, even suggesting i talk to him at a specific time every day on instant messanger, i even offered to buy him the pc and pay for the internet so i could speak to him for 1 hour a day, she point blank refused to do this, i have bought him books and read them to him on the visits. i got him one of my childhood favourites, in hardback and audio book form so he could read/ listen to them by himself, knowing i have read the books and i was the one that gave them to him,
i know i am fighting a battle that i have already lost everytime i see him because i see him 2-3 times a year and the rest of the time she has full control over who he sees and what he hears, i know he as asked to see me and she has said she cant get in contact, he has told me this, she has had my email address since the day i left, and i keep a mobile phone so she can contact me in case of emergency, noone else has the number of the phone and she never calls it, i also gave my son the number but she wont let him call it,

i am doing everything in my power to see my son and yet it is still not enough, she is waiting for me to give up, something i will never do, she is going to have to get a court order for that, yet she knows if she does when my son is old enough and wants to see me and finds out my side of the story, what or who is he going to believe then? and is he like me going to blame the parent whom said nothing or the one who told him lies?
because my dad told me nothing at first then lied i did not see him for 12 years and only then to bury him, truthfully i still hate him and i dont want my son to feel the same about me for not telling him the truth or worse not saying anything at all.

oh mellors......my heart goes out to you....i too read and reread your post trying to find the right words.....all the advice you have been given here is right on the mark and you must take it all to heart......your son is way too young to hear the truth......but your positive actions are making more of an impact on him then you give yourself credit for......he knows that his daddy loves him.....just keep doing all you can and i promise you that one day he will come to you and say.."dad, i understood why things had to be the way they did but i never doubted your love......"....you're a good man mellors.....

(((((((Mellors)))))))))

I am a single Mom of 2 sons (both have different Dads). My oldest (9yrs) and his Dad now have a wonderful relationship as I made a choice to not bad mouth him to my son....no matter how hard it was to bite my tongue. I was abused by his Dad which made it even harder to not say anything.

I have not regretted this decision as my son's Dad is still in therapy to deal with his problems and has turned into a great Dad to our son. This has made such a difference with him....his spirit is thriving as he has 2 parents who love him.

I can remember my Mom telling me that when you speak badly about a parent to a child, you break their spirit and it changes them forever.

I now have a 4 year old and his Dad is not bothering with him We have been through **ll with him but to this day I will not speak badly about him to our son. I completely understand how you feel. My ex cheated, abused us mentally, gambled away all of our savings....etc etc amd it takes everything in my power to not say a word but I made a choice that I won't and encourage a relationship between them even though it isn't happening

I wanted you to know how much I understand and feel for you.

Mellors...what a tough spot. I'm sorry your ex is keeping you from your son. I applaud you for continuing to fight. He WILL remember this someday.

However, I too, believe if you bad mouth his mother to him it will come back to haunt you. Don't do it. One of these days (possibly quite soon) your son will be old enough to figure out what she is doing. I think he will be very upset that she kept you from him. He must find that out on his own though. She's his mother no matter what. That is important to him.

My cousin's ex wife is much like your ex with their son. She uses him to try and manipulate my cousin. My cousin just doesn't buy into it. For several years, he tried to pit Mom against Dad, luckily Dad wouldn't bite. He slowly started realizing what was kept from him. His son is going to be 16 this year and he sees what his mother is attempting to do.

When you tell him you had no choice to leave and he asks why, could you tell him something to the effect that "even though Mom and Dad love you (him), sometimes adults just can't live together. They're better Moms and Dads if they live apart."? That way you aren't lying and you are placing blame on his mother.

Other than that, is there anything you can do legally to get her to comply better?

I wish things were simplier. Good luck, mellors.

mellors,

i think you stated in this post somewhere that you have a visitation order in effect. can you not have that enforced? can you not take her to court for contempt because she's not adhering to the visitation ordered by the court?

i would do as much as i could legally to see my son more. these posts sound as if she has the right to accuse, condemn and rule on this.

my first step would be getting my granted visitation enforced in any way that i could. that's going to speak volumes all the way around.

can you do that? i know things are different there. i'm not sure of the laws, etc.

let me know.

kd

Mellors, another experience...

My middle son found out his wife was seeing someone else while he visited here for a week. Her affair developed, my son moved out, the "other man" moved in permanently. My granddaughter confronted her mother herself! She said to her "Why isn't Daddy living with us anymore? Why is "X" living here and sleeping in your bed? That's wrong!" She's the same age as your son. I DO believe that your son can take the truth in a small dose. Maybe if you tell him that his mother didn't love you anymore and found someone else. No judgement of her or her actions. Just the plain truth.

When you do see or talk to him, reinforce how badly you miss him and tell him the times you've tried to talk to or see him and weren't able to because his mother didn't allow it. Just mention the times and nothing about his mother. Just state the facts and let him make up his own mind. He already knows his mother won't let HIM initiate contact. Kids are sharper than we tend to give them credit for. Doesn't seem to me like it will take him any time to make that judgement call for himself.

Something "proactive" you can do is check with an attorney/courts to see what can be done to enforce your visitation rights. If you can afford it, make the trip down there and knock on his door. Let things take their course. He'll know you were there trying to see him and he'll also know who it was that stopped you.

(((((((((((((((((mellors)))))))))))))))))) you have alot to consider right now and i'm thinking about you.

kd

i have spoken to social serivces (sp) today and it dont look good, yes i am a drunk when i post this, 2 months down the drain, i am hurting and i cant cope, i have sied also but still no realease

every step that i have taken, is in vain, i am back to square one, i have accevieved nothing in the last 4 years, i have lost before i even started, with that i can cope with, with her i cant. i am sending a email to night to her, i know it is not going to help, but i cant deal with her anymore in a polite way, she is not going to be happy

mellors....i'm so sorry that you are feeling this way..its noot all in vain hon.......if i can do anything for you please let me know...love you

i did write an email last night to the exwife but didnt send it, i think the venting helped me clear my mind and i binned it this morning.

i spoke to social sevices again today regarding the visitation order and they said there is nothing they can do to force her to adhere to the order made by the court, she suggested i get in contact with fathers for justice, a campaign group for fathers, run by fathers who cannot get to see there children, for various reasons, to see if they can help. you might have seen them campaigning on the houses of parliment dressed up as batman and robin and also superman to highlight their cause.

i have to go to see CAFCAS tommorrow in manchester to see if they can do anything to help me, they are court appointed social services for the children of separated parents and help with custodial matters and visitations, if they make a ruling the persons involved have to adhere to what is said by these people, they are there working for the childrens rights and not the parents, so if my son says he wants to see me more, or less, she will have to comply with them and so will i