No evil

In light of the fact that we're here to talk about it...it must have worked
On a slightly more serious note...I do believe that the theory that there is no evil is not a new one. Pretty sure I remember debating this with some friends when I was much much younger

Given the description of the word evil, you cannot say it doesn't exist.

Something that is a cause or source of injury, destruction, poverty, injustice.

If we were to stand and look back at the massive gasing of the jewish population during the time of Hitler, not to mention the hideious experiments and starvation of this group of people, it is fair to say it is evil. If we describe Hitlers actions as an adjective we can say evil acts. We are not talking about the psychological state of the individual, we are describing the adjective evil.

Even in the discussion of the Casey Anthony trial we can look at the end result of a dead child and say something evil happened to that child.

How can you say there is no evil? Even on a slightly more serious note? A theory about the fact that there is no evil is describing a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. So by in debate of it not existing you are saying there were no events or conditions within history that resulted in suffering, injuring and destruction or even poverty and injustice. I think you should have said maybe on lighter note but certainly not a more serious note.

I think that the debate about evil is considering The Devil or some relgious conotation. What I am talking about is the word itself used as both and adjective and a noun.

I would say that what occurred on 9/11 was the result of an evil act. If we are to consider the words anger, spite, malicious all the way to suffering, injury destruction. I would say that by describing the individuals that were involved with this event as evil doers, would be a correct description. Because of the end result.
And it has nothing to do with religion, God, the Devil. It has everything to do with anger, spite, maliciousness, leading to suffering, injury, and destruction.

The debate should be about the misunderstanding of the meaning of the word and how people MISUSE IT, MISUNDERSTAND IT, AND DON'T KNOW WHAT IT REALLY MEANS.

I think that the effort to try to say this word or it's meaning does not exist is just another effort to rid mankind of religion. Just because this word is used in religion doesn't mean it is a religious word or is attached to a specific religion. I think that one constant process throughout history is to try to rule in religion or ruled it out depending upon how powerful it becomes. But this four letter word is not describing religion. It describes conditions and actions that result in destruction, and the suffering and injury to humans.

Open Eyes

If you mean that evil is a perception that we all agree on as the ultimate abhorrent behavior possible, I understand but I don't necessarily agree. We won't all have the same perceptions.
The systematic killing of people as happened in the holocaust. That could fit everyone's perception. These people were seemingly sane and rational people in a way. They can't have all been criminally insane or driven by a psychosis they had no control over.
The other example you gave...I'm not so sure. I have to admit to not sharing the general public's obsession with that case so I don't know all the officially released details much less what actually happened.
9/11 was not what I'd consider evil. Tragic and despicable yes. Evil no. Middle Eastern terrorists see the US and other western governments as enemies. They see their own governments as the enemy. They have some good reasons for that view.
Was the US government systematic eradication and subjugation of the tribes evil?
Nevertheless I suspect that despite semantics, deep down we all think of "evil" in biblical terms.

What function does calling someone 'evil' serve? I think it makes us feel less powerless. It lets us "strike back" against someone who has offended -- but only in our own minds. It has no real positive effect in reality. Try telling someone who has offended you that they are evil. The most incorrigible will laugh at your impotence.

Understanding how people get that way is more effective in correcting situations than using names. That has an internal, psychological effect -- but solves no problems. Understanding how things work makes effective correction more likely.

What I think, anyway.

Or it may be just a kind of unconscious (or outright) affirmation that "I am good" when discussing current events or rehashing historical events. Of the times I've been offended I can't think of any situation where I considered the other person evil.
What kind of situations are you talking about here. Do you have hypothetical or real life examples? It's a little too abstract or vague for me to understand.

I think if someone is truly evil (or our perception of evil) and committing an "evil" act then prevention comes before understanding.

Ok, what I did was to look up a word in the dictionary and give the definition to this word.

Now, this word has been used to describe ficticous charectors. We have the evil witch, and the evil aliens or whatever stories that revolve around a type of mythical imaginary evil verses good. We still have that theme in movies, television series, novels and so on today. And this is what I think that is being deemed as something that does not exist, no there never was an evil witch in the wizard of oz, it was just a story among many stories, sleeping beauty, snow white and so on and so forth.

We are entertained by the good guy that ultimately gets the bad or evil guy. So in that respect at some point when we grow up, hopefully, we start to say, "You know what? That evil witch doesn't exist in real life." And those stories and not about religions, they are about good verses evil and we like to think that perhaps the bad things or people that do exist in reality can be destroyed and perhaps we could live in peace.

But we also have to be careful because crimes are commited every minute, maybe every second and we have different legal systems that address these various crimes and there is a process where the person who commited the crime understands good from bad behavior.

I didn't put up a word with a definition to say, oh, yes there was an evil witch in OZ. But the debate is about that in some way.

The truth is that throughout history there have been many different rulers that one could say commited evil acts, just by the definition of the word. But, because there is so many ficticious charectors that have been described as evil ones, we debate it.
Now pachyderm your post is saying just that, you are thinking about fictional charectors and oh no, that may mean we are powerless. Just by uttering the words striking back, there again opens a book to some type of fictional event in a fiction hero book. And again you use the word reality as in your mind those fictional stories are not real. Ofcourse someone being called evil by another may be considered impotence, if you are thinking about fictional charectors.

Lets just think about what is going on in some other countries where children are watching programs using American disney like charectors as bad guys and how they can be rewarded by blowing themselves up. If I say this is teaching how to commit evil acts am I then showing impotence? I am not showing them a wicked witch, no they are being shown a charector that looks like mickey mouse as being the bad guy.

Ok, lets throw in psychology here, do you want to do that? What mental illness do you call that? Alright you don't want to use the word evil, ok, it just doesn't exist now does it? Lets just pick another word out of the almost two thousand pages of words within a dictionary all these words with different meanings. Well if we just cant accept one word, take your pick and and get out the other books that take words and give other words that mean the same thing, lets just put some bit of intellectual dressing on it.

And what about the children that are taken away from families to be used as human weapons attached to bombs. Oh there must be some word for that, oh, we cant just use insanity for that occurance. Oh yes some kind of psychosis breading more psychosis? No, there is no evil in that either, oh, that would be someone laughing at my impotence.

Oh we have to be careful about semantics, yes could be applied to some biblical term. Oh, goodness, we couldn't do that. Maybe we should just pretend that evil is only in some kind of fairy tale that doesn't exist either. I don't even think the Grim's brothers could beat that.

Oh, right we wouldn't want to agree with Bush calling these people evil doers, no that would be agreeing with a person who represented a political party, oh, he was
impotent, oh, he was ignorant or stupid or whatever.

Ok, understanding how poeple get thay way is much more effective in correcting situations. Well I did try to address that on different occasions especially as I see children again being abused by teaching them to hate an American mouse. I have talked about children many many times here and explained where some of this behavior comes from. Ok, we can't use morality either, another bad word, someone has to be in charge of that, can't just look it up in the dictionary.

Yes, it does have an internal psychological effect on me, and no, that doesn't solve the problem, I just cant always sleep at night, my problem not yours I guess.

At least I still have the option of saying that word "evil" even if it costs me to be deemed as intellectually impotent.

I suppose we could just say that these are atrosities and can be inconcievable. But that still doesn't address how people get that way. Oh its that Trillion dollar question isnt it? Oh maybe that is a mere pittance of valuing that question or a possible answer.

I don't really use the word evil very much. But it is the topic here and I did look it up. In my own unfortunate situation I have used the words negligent, disrespectful, trespassing, lieing and even liability. Hard for me because I did try to relate the value of what I had and I even tried to educate and display my concerns many times over years and in the end it served no purpose, it was actually pretty futile. I don't even know what you would call the negligence in psychological terms all I know is this condition called PTSD.
Open Eyes

Hmm but I thought we were removing not only the idea of evil, but the word as well. If nothing is evil, then you can't have good, which is it's opposite. How would you judge except by noting something as worse and whether the word "evil" is used or not, the same concept arises. If there is no evil, no bad, then there cannot be good as there is nothing to compare it to...so then everything must be copacetic, right?

I'd love to answer that but it's directed at elliemay and having read a few of her posts I think she will answer better than I could.

This thread has become confusing though. Some seem to be addressing evil as a concept, some as an act or behavior, and some even seem to be saying that evil exists as a material entity.

When people do things that society has deemed bad/abhorrent/horrific, it's condemned because it is bad/abhorrent/horrific. Whether you use the word "evil" to describe those acts is irrelevant. Some of you have somehow concluded that some of us have disputed that there are evil/bad/abhorrent/horrific acts.
I don't believe anyone has and I'm curious about how you came to that conclusion.
My first post contained levity but that is the way I believe morality and the concepts of good/evil came to be. How else? And I'm sure it isn't an original theory either.

For me the point is to move from a position where it is considered useful to put labels on things or people, so that we can feel justified in our own superiorities -- to a position where we try to understand how people's lives get "distorted" and out of their rage they commit acts which are harmful to society -- and with that understanding of how things work in reality and not just in our wishes, to ameliorate the factors which lead to that harm.

Well, the thread is about No evil. I used the dictionary to give the definition of the word evil and evil as a noun, descriptor, or evil as and adjective but elliemay kind of convolutes that a little by saying driving behavior. To me that would entertain the explanation of the psycholocial motivation of the adjective of the word described in the dictionary.

The reason why the thread has become confusing is because of everything I explained in my last post. What I considered is what was stated by the person who wrote the article that questioned the existance of evil. The reason why it becomes confusing is because of how we think of the word evil wether it be used as an adjective or a noun. The word evil has inadvertantly been given other meanings and one can think of evil as I mentioned, the Devil or one can think of evil as a wicked witch in a fairy tale. But it is a word that has a meaning and it does exist by the very definition of the word. It is not a religous statement, not a fictional charector, it is a condition or a person or leader that creats the condition.

You use the other words, bad, abhorrent, horrific and they are other adjectives but they do not say the same thing as the adjective or noun evil. These other words you use are more of an emotion, disgusting loathsome, or repellant and horrific causing horror and terrifying. And within the definition of these words there is no mention of the word evil.

If we see a horrific car accident than that is not evil. A food can taste disgusting or even loathsome, but evil has no real taste. A person can be disgusting or loathsome by the way he or she looks or even smells, but that is not the definition of evil either.

We think of evil as non existing and yet if we really see the true definition of evil, than we can see how we misuse it, or misunderstand it and that it does describe different human conditions that have occurred thoughout history. Wether or not the origin is caused by an individual that is acting on a psycholocial disfunciton or not, it is not about that.

The only reason one has to assume when people say that evil does not exit is that they are not really understanding the word itself. So, we can get many different responses in this thread by what that word means to different people, not the actual meaning.

Look, I had to think about that myself, so I did look it up and I wanted to be clear about what the WORD meant. And in my last post I did talk about the confusion over the MEANING OF THE WORD.

Open Eyes

Well pachyderm, yes that would be nice. The word evil is not about a label, but it has been misused that way. And perhaps it is also misunderstood in those hero fights evil stories that lend to the feelings of the destruction of evil as a way of being justified or superior. Evil is one of those catch words that is often misused and that has caused the word to be misunderstood. So what we are trying to do by claiming it doesn't exist is to stop how it is misused or misunderstood. But then we would be doing a lot of book burning now wouldn't we and what about all those movies and plays and series and the list is endless. And somehow those stories and movies give us hope that what you want can happen, that the distortion of humans will end and the acts committed that are so harmful to societies world wide would end.

We will never get there if we deny the existance of that word that has a real meaning to it. If only we saw Hitler coming, or Stallin or Osama bin Ladden or Sadaam Hussen or so many others that can be described as evil by the true definition of the word. Yes, obviously there must have been some mental issue, some explanation for these powers that commit acts of evil by the true definition of the word.

First we have to understand that it does exist and then we have to understand why and how we can change it. It is not a mythical charector, but we do learn that as children, we have to acknowedge that there are bad people that do bad things in the world. That question that haunts us is not the word evil, but WHY.

I am not one to want to use evil as a catch word. But as a real word, it does exist.

Open Eyes

You know pachyderm sometimes I really wonder, how far have we really come?
I think about the fact that we are primates and how lower primates behave. They have a class system too. I watched the snow monkeys on that special called Life and how some of them were allowed to sit in the hot springs while others were not allowed and had to sit in the cold only to stare and that stare was so human like, that longing stare. And only the monkeys that were born into those monkeys that had permission to sit in the springs were allowed to enter.

Watching the chimpanzees our closest relatives that also have a class system, but it can be broken if one creates a new tool that others want to use too.

And the gorillas and the one gorilla that is king and leader and how the upcoming male gorillas challenge him for that position. Are we so far away from that? But they do treat their young better than us, they are nurtured and taught to function in that group. They do prize their young.

Are we nothing more than groups of primates all around the world that somehow will never get along, territorial and class, just more compicated, more tools? And not necessarily altogether different, oh I truely wonder sometimes.

Open Eyes

I think that the author (and I) would disagree with this. There are no bad people. There are people who do destructive things. That is just a statement of reality. We have certain feelings about those people. But bad is not a quality of people that exists in reality outside of ourselves.

I think it is important, if you want to understand how things work, to distinguish between how we feel about something, and how those things really are. If we don't distinguish, we cannot successfully deal with them. Strong feelings, particularly strong anxieties, about people, make it hard to think clearly about them as they are, as opposed to how they make us feel. Being clear about our feelings makes it easier to think about how things are! Such-and-such is this way, and I feel this about it.

Nighty-night.

Wait...lets slow down and take a deep breath. We are friends and this is a discussion...not a debate. I'm not allowed to debate
So lets make it an exchange of views and opinions. The article takes the position that evil is a concept. I agree. I've already explained my view on how the concept originated. And I think the origins and evolution of the concept is more interesting than whether evil is a concept or an entity but that's beside the point.

By your own words you seem to be saying that evil is an entity. That it exists outside the domain of actions or people.
If I'm mistaken on that just let me know. If that is your position then we just disagree

I think I understand what you're saying. Most of the examples given so far for "evil" men, have been men who acted on deep seated beliefs who convinced others to go along with him. Some of the examples have been men with homicidal tendencies (lunatics?) who acted alone. Do you have any scenario in mind where this could be put to use?

So if you raise a child is that what you say? There are no bad people. It is ok to accept candy from a stranger or get into a stranger's car and I will never see you again and you may be found dead, maybe not, but just remember there are no bad people? Or maybe we just need to say that there are so many people out there with personality disorders that you have to be careful of? Gee I think there are a lot of them.

I am trying to think of the name of the man called the impaler I don't think it was the real Dracula. He wasnt a bad person now was he? Oh Vladamere wasnt it. Oh and what about that queen that killed so many young women and bathed in their blood.

Was Bernie Madoff a good person?

The person that drugged and raped me, that wasn't a bad person either?

So, if a therpist tells me it is not my fault it was just that it was with a bad person, he was wrong? Maybe he just felt entitled huh?

I am a very kind hearted person and I do try to understand others, and some ask me why I bother. My husband has told me not to be so kind hearted and care, and then I told him, that if I wasnt that way, he wouldn't be sitting next to me. No, I saw the good and I focused on that, but I did pay a price, it was hard work.

If an attorney has a client that took care of an old man for several years, missed work and took the old man to the hospital and went to his home three times a day to make sure he would take his medication and clean his back covered with sores from the shingles. And make his meals three times a day. This client was tired, it was a lot of work, he wanted to have a family member help, no one would come, no one. The old man considered this client as the only person who cared and even called him a son that he never had. He wasnt always kind either, he was suffering from cancer but he was all there mentally.

He could have dwindled away in a home where they just drugged him. The client didn't accept that. He stopped the drugs and brought the man home until he was well enough to garden and do things he enjoyed.

The old man decided to leave his money to the client and the client did not know this. The old man met with the lawyer who knew the client very well and knew the relationship the client had with the man. They were neighbors and the old man lost his sister and asked the client to invest the money and the client did that, no real big pay day on that one.

So the old man's health is really failing and the client went and renewed his license because he wanted to give him hope. The client knew he was dieing, no relatives came to the death bed. The client drove in a snow storm because he wanted to be there for the old man, he knew he was dieing and the old man was afraid. And the old man finally passed away.

The old man left the client a pretty good sum of money, he knew the client missed a lot of work tending to him and never complained. He knew the client was probably the only real friend he ever had.

The attorney did not do his job, he set up the will wrong and as a result the family members, distant, this old man had no offspring, said the client talked the old man into doing this. The client was an honest man. The old man, before he died told the client there was thousands of dollars in a safe and to take it. The client did not do that, he took the money and put it in the old mans banking account.

The distant family members dragged the clients name in the dirt. The attorney did a bad job representing the client, why? Because the attorney was protecting himself for setting up the will wrong. So, in the end the old man's final wishes were never carried out. And the old man did not like the relatives and he was very hurt that none of them would come and help him.

I think that was a bad lawyer. Now I didn't say evil, but he was a bad lawyer and he knew that he made a mistake and he drew out that battle and paid himself handsomely, the client pretty much got nothing.

No, I would like to think that there are no bad people. I always wanted to believe that. I still want to believe that. But I am tired of being let down.

No, I personally tried to be nice to my neighbor, certainly just because it took so much effort to get him to contain his dogs, he must be a nice man somehow. No, I wanted to believe that, and because I tried, I paid a heavy price.

Oh I would like to believe that there are no bad people, but I guess that is like trying to believe in Santa Clause.

Open Eyes

Calm down. I haven't said or implied any of those things. We were talking about the concept of evil...not whether there are bad men...or bad women. I'm not going to answer hypothetical questions that don't relate to the topic.
If you believe that evil exists as an entity or that some people are born evil... that's fine. We disagree. We probably disagree on many things. It's okay...it's not that important. There's no reason to get angry.

Oh, I am not getting angry. I did reply to the statement that there is no bad people, only bad acts. I didn't bring that up but it seemed to be considered as part of the No evil thread.

I don't dislike anyone here for having their opinion. Evil does mean different things to different people. My point was that I did look it up and I even typed the definition in this thread so others could really look at the dictionary meaning of the word.

I had to read it myself and think about the real meaning of it. I was willing to say there are no true mythical evil ones. I had to think about being little, and fearing something evil hiding in a dark closet, remember those days? Oh I think we all felt that way. I remember running and jumping on my bed wondering if some unforseen evil was hiding under there too. So it is safe to say children do have some idea of evil. And I was thinking that as we grow up we may dispute those childhood feelings.

When I was little my father always had war documentaries on TV. I really got sick of war, I never could understand why people just have to have war all the time. I still don't like to watch anything that has to do with war. I hated having to remember the dates for every war in history class. I would have rather learned about the psychology behind the wars. But our old history books were not that indepth. It was more about fighting over this land and getting that land and fighting the Indians, in my opinion, we took their land. But back then the indians were considered bad and so I didn't say anything. No use agruing with the teacher. No I actually hated history I felt all we ever did is fight, fight, fight. But the one thing I loved in history is the art and the culture and things that were created and I loved the egyption art and even their tombs, I got straight A's when it came to that kind of history.

When I learn about what they did in the ancient coloseums for entertainment. The horrors that they tried to come up with, for entertainment? I am not talking about games here they really did some terrible things to people, to be entertained. Those attrocities would never even enter my mind, not in my wildest imagination.

I have to admit that I will never understand the atrosities of man. I dont think of evil as an entitiy, or that people are born evil. That isn't the definition in the dictionary. It is describing the acts of evil and an adjective and the evil tryrants etc that create the acts of evil as the noun.

Open Eyes

One does wonder how this discussion would change if we could step back, observe all situations, and have complete knowledge and understanding of all things.

But we can't. So we marginalize horrible things as evil. It all fits now in a nice little box that we can grasp easily. "well, that's just evil".

I also wonder what we would think if we could get into the mind of, say a serial killer, what would we find? Would our perspectives change if we could understand their motives, their history? What if we found, not an evil entity driven by, well, evil, but a person whose actions made perfect sense to them and us given this new understanding?

It's so easy to judge, yet so hard to understand. However, I absolutely believe that it is in that understanding that we find our truest and most fearless selves. Perhaps we have an innate fear of empathy, because it certainly does "level the playing field" so to speak.

I also think that most things exist, in their truest form, per se sufficient. I do not need need dark to know light. Light exists and is real in and of itself. Likewise, I do not need hot to know cold. I contend that this argument extends to good and bad.

However, if one adds a comparison, or a judgment into the mix, then all things become relative and thus dependent on each other. Lighter means that there must be a darker.

Look, it's obvious that bad things happen in this world. We too often do suffer at the hands of others.

However, a hurricane could come through, destroy my home and kill everyone I love. Is the hurricane an evil thing with a will and malice to do harm? No, it's a weather phenomenon that originates from a tiny disruption off the coast of Africa that grows and grows and grows until it becomes an incredibly destructive force. Now imagine the boon it would be if we understood that tiny disruption better. Could intervene in some way?

Could people be like that? Like the hurricane?

A discussion such as this sometimes seems too abstract. I am going to try to connect it to something I think we experience personally. Many of us here have been abused by someone we trusted -- at a time when our own "selves" were being formed, and we were told, or it seemed to us, that we were bad people. We took much of that judgement into our selves.

Now it is hard to think about what made those people, upon whom we depended, treat us that way. Our feelings are so strong that it is hard to think about them aside from those feelings. When we get some of our issues with them resolved better, then we can begin to think about them as themselves and not react to them solely as our oppressors -- to think about them more calmly.

Many people here consider abusers to be evil, beyond redemption, people who should not be allowed to associate with the rest of us. Their reactions to those people are very strong. On the other hand, some of us discover the possibilities within ourselves to become abusive. We find to our dismay that we have some things in common with our abusers. We find that given enough stress we can become like them in many ways. "There but for the grace of God go I"?
What makes the difference between someone who abuses and someone who has those tendencies, but refrains from abusing? Do abusers freely "choose" to abuse? Do they decide one day "I am going to abuse somebody, just because I can, I like to"?

My mother was an abuser. In some sense she enjoyed hurting us children. She got something out of it. Yet when I think about her, I do not see a "free" woman at all; I see someone driven, someone intensely unhappy. Do you think she "chose" that life?

So what happens if we start to see our abusers as unhappy, driven, tormented, possibly abused people themselves? Is it still easy to see them as "evil"? This is something I have struggled with, to try to reconcile two seemingly incompatible views of people. But I have found that the more I am able to work out what my feelings are about them, the less "trapped" I am by them, by concern with them, with their judgements of me. I start to be able to think about them, in a way less colored by my instinctive reaction to them. I start to be able to see them more "rationally" (I think), more as they probably are, rather than solely as how they made me feel.

And there is a lot of freedom in being able to do that. One becomes more able to cope independently with such people, to act in spite of what they do, to think about them, to not be trapped by feelings about them which one cannot fathom. I no longer think that using assessments such as "evil" are useful approaches to people. To the contrary, using such words makes one less effective, since one is still "trapped" and unseparated from them in one's own mind.

This is how I think that throwing around words such as "evil" and other judgemental terms are destructive: they mislead, they let us avoid looking inside ourselves by claiming that badness is on the outside, as a description about a reality in other people. It is hard to set aside that way of looking at things, since it is so common and approved of in our society, so much so that we don't even notice anything wrong with it. But it is time to learn to see things in a new way. The old way has not worked.

You know pachyderm, I have done what you are describing here about understanding the person who hurt you and if you read my posts all the way back to others about who or what their perpetrator was, I did tell them to look behind the person that hurt them. I have used the phrase know thy enemy but it can mean different things.

What I mean by saying this is that when someone wants to fight back or address the person that hurt them, they cannot just act on thier feelings of anger or that now they are older or stronger in some way. Because, as I have warned, they may again get very hurt and confused as often the person who hurt them can and often will react in a way that is only defensive and not give the victim a sense of resolve.

I have talked to victims of abuse and encouraged them to look past the act and beyond to abuser for a better perspective of that person who commited the abuse.
This is what you have described about your mother. And pachyderm, for some reason I have done this all my life. And I am pretty amazed about it. Even as young child getting on a school bus with her brother and watching others mercelessly pick on her brother the whole way to school. I was so very little and yet I tried to understand WHY. It had a profound effect on my brother, and an even more profound effect on me. I was abused by my brother, he was abused and even though I was so frightened, I felt sorry for him. My brother was beaten in a shed for his bad behavior. He was riddled with anxiety and sucked his thumb until his lips grew swollen and bleeding and he soaked his bed with urine and I can remember my mother had to put shower curtains on the bed and on the walls by the bed and on the floor. And my brother was punised for that tool. My brother hurt me, and tried to climb on me and pin me down and
I was very frightened and yet I knew that if I told, he would be beaten more and that he could get so angry that he could kill me. I lived that way for YEARS and yet
I continually tried to understand WHY. As a little child, I knew something was wrong with him, but I didn't know what, I did know he suffered and I did witness it and it was horrible. But not once did I think of him as evil. I ran a lot and I often didn't have time to dress warm and I climed up some trees very high pine trees and sat shivering way up high, I can still remember him calling out and searching for me and I caught pneumonia and almost died, but I still did not tell.
I have a problem with doors, never really realized it, the sound of doors really triggers me. I didn't realize it until I had a Flashback and saw all the doors, the holes where I tryed to place hooks and eyes and the doors that I ran through and shutting them behind me to give me time to get away. Oh and there were doors in my marriage to, and they had scars on them too.
It really never occured to me how deep that was in my brain.

For me, it almost seemed like all I did was go from one abusive situation to another in a marriage. All I really wanted was to feel safe and be able to grow and function and have a family. But again I had to deal with something that, again, I didn't understand and again, I was a victim. And again, I saw a good person and focused on that and the WHY and I did my best to work on it and be patient and supportive and it was really hard. It was very hard on me psychologically and yet , I did not even think of the word evil.

Pachyderm, it has been a pleasure to know you, because it is really nice to know that someone else tries to see things the way I do, or did. Because most people that I have come across have told me that I should not be so forgiving. They have asked me how many times will it take before I just accept that there are bad people and that is just the way it is.

I know that I did try very hard to do that with my neighbor. I was very angry that they were constantly trespassing and not respecting me or my business or my property at all. Their actions were very disrespectful and they even expressed that they liked my property and would like to own it. But I did try to look pass that and I did try to get along and find some kind of ground to form an understanding with them.

But, what happened to me was toooooooo much pachyderm. They really never changed thier respect for me or what I had. Instead, their containment system failed and they just let their dogs out at night while I slept thinking they could get around my rules. They did this for 3 months. In that period it cost me sooooo much. And,
it was really the straw that broke the camels back for me.

My efforts to find the good in others has really cost me. It has cost me in more ways than I could ever have imagined, ever. But I still didn't use the word evil.
The one word applied to me is MISUNDERSTOOD and I know that is because I did give others a chance and I did try to understand others. But at least knowing that you feel like me is a comfort, because up until PC or meeting you, I have actually felt very alone. I am that one that trys to understand the WHY and see the GOOD in others. And, I have always been that way, I feel that I was just born that way.
My husband has told me to change to stop being sympathetic. My only reply is that he is asking me to not be me. Is there a disorder for me? Sometimes, I really wonder. I do know that I have PTSD and I do know that it goes all the way back and I am trying to understand WHY. Why if I do remember and how I did try to understand my past, WHY do I get FLASHBACKS? Even though I have made an extreme effort to explain it and see every aspect of it, somehow it effected my brain.

Even in that, I still look to others with a more compassionate understanding as I experience my own illness and have withdrawn to try to understand it. I have come to PC to be supportive and learn and try to understand where I go wrong or how I can change or how I can get stronger or better or not internalize, but learn how to externalize the actions of others and the circumstances I am in. But, I struggle with unwanted flashbacks and triggers. I get very angry because I don't want to have that happen, I don't like it. And PC has really been the only place where I can rant. And somehow others don't pick on me for it, no, they understand it. And, so that goes back to my feelings about the good in others. And I wonder if I come here for that somehow.

No, I did have to look up that word EVIL. And I really think about it and really look at it's meaning and just the meaning alone. And I am not one to be quick to use it or abuse it. I even wonder if somehow I am a born atruist. Because, like you, I don't want to think of people as bad. Even when I have had tifts in PC, I appologize and I still try to understand that other person and I really try to get to know them and understand them and am even sort of driven to reach out somehow and listen and learn about them, so that I can find that good spot.

I hide while doing this, I do it late at night, and I know others may consider this an illness. Because I seem to be attracted to wanting to understand others here in PC.
I listen and read thier opinions and ideas and I don't pick on them. I try to look at the good in them, or even that injured person and how it may distort their thinking or opinions or feelings etc.

To be honest with you, I struggle with what others say about just accepting the fact that there is EVIL in the world and there are just bad people and I should somehow stop trying to understand it. So all my posts here have been sort of a battle for me as I don't want to just somehow be deemed niaeve in feeling that there are reasons for EVIL. Because I have paid for my trying to give reasons and others have constantly told me to stop doing that. Someone is just bad and that is all there is to it. So, I have tried to just look at the word and separate it to a true meaning without denying that it does exist, as others seem to think I need to realize that somehow.

Open Eyes

The title of the article. And another quote:

Quote:

But there is no evil per se.

I never quite understand why people try to do away with words/concepts? If there is no evil, there cannot be its opposite, "good"? What evil "is"/means to us and how whatever we deem evil manifests, etc. is a more interesting subject to study I think. Just as the Arab proverb states, "all sun makes a desert" (which isn't "evil" but will kill you just the same; but who thought "sun" was bad?) I think all words are helpful in some way or another, at least to whoever is using them? But just because a word exists doesn't mean I have to use it or agree with how you do. However, I will defend your right to use it! Trying to abolish other people's concepts because one doesn't agree with them, doesn't see/understand them the same way ain't the way to go at it?

Thanks very much for your post, Open Eyes. But, if you do not believe that people are "evil" you still are sometimes justified in setting boundaries and not simply letting people walk all over you. And in fact, people will respect you more for doing so. People such as those are looking for someone strong, and one sign of strength is the ability to stand up for yourself and not simply take their guff forever and ever.

Open Eyes, I really appreciate you. Your struggles to make sense of what happened to you are so thought-provoking.

For me, evil will always be part of the theology I was taught. Often, I was told I was a bad boy. My actions were sinful. Sin is a form of evil. There are consequences for being sinful. Upon death, I would be joining others who had rejected God through sinful behavior.

I do not understand Dr. Somov to be asserting the actions of those who lack empathy are appropriate. They are not. The world is less safe because of the actions of the unempathetic. I understand Dr. Somov to be telling us we have choices and the choice we make has the potential to affect how safe the world will be.

If we choose to view those who lack empathy as evil and demonize them as inhumane and incapable of learning to be more empathetic, the world will be less safe.

If we should choose to be compassionate, and maybe at some point try to forgive the behavior of those who acted without empathy, it might be possible that remedial empathy training may allow the world to become more safe.

Somov is talking about a way to reach the unsafe and trying to rehabilitate them:
http://www.eatingthemoment.com/360-d...cceptable.html

An adjunct: http://reentrypolicy.org/Report/Part...hHighlight15-3

Are we trying to abolish people's concepts, or just to point out some of their drawbacks?

One thing that people do is use words and actions that make them appear "powerful" to the unsuspecting, but which in fact cover their own insecurities. They are just camouflage. If you get sucked into believing that these people are really powerful, you make a mistake, and can help neither yourself nor them.