[drunksunflower]

... part of the reason that many people suffer from mental illness longer and more severely than they should?

I was just thinking about this when replying to someone's post in the drug forum ('Anti-depressants' by Hopeless - sorry I don't know how to link ) and reading in particular wi-fighter's response also.

If you got sick and then quickly followed whatever course of treatment you were recommended, would you be more likely to have a better chance of recovery and not have to keep *&^$ing around (insert what you will, there) with psych issues for longer?

And if you have some triggering event/s, would things be easier for you if you did the same, even though you might not want to or did not feel you deserved to ... or whatever prohibative emotions you experienced?

This has opened up such a can of worms ... (ok i have my flatmate's flu and stayed home from work today, so I am thinking more than I usually do about this sort of thing).

Me .. I have so many times just decided i should be fine so I would be ... and ended up ^$%#&%*% up again (yes, insert what you will there, too ) and the last dr I went to suggested that if I wanted to get rid of my depression I should try sticking to whatever he suggested (length-wise).

I suppose I am just wondering if this would be true for anyone else.

I posted it here because it might apply to talk therapy as well as pharmocological solutions.

Any thoughts??

[(JD)]

Plenty of thoughts I have.
Are you upset with yourself because you "know better" but still end up doing poorly?

Having a mental disorder includes not being able to make a fast change and reaping mental health. Those who are mentally healthy CAN do that, partly because they don't have a disorder that hinders them, imo. What do you think?

Doing the best we can is what I think most all of us do. Even if someone goes out of their way to NOT get well...isn't that part of their disorder too, then?

[SleepsWithButterFlies]

You stayed home from work loooooong weekend...OK

This is just my opinion but I think if a doc or pdoc or a t feel from their education that someone needs to say for example be seen by a T 2 x's a week...and say that person doesn't go but once in a while because they dont think they need too..well...yeah...then it would be non-compliance and how can they expect to get well? Now flip side is...say they get a crumby T or doc...should they still go...no they oughta get another doc and see what they say...Moss grows when we just sit there

hugs and see your pm

[wi_fighter]

A post of mine got somebody thinking? Cool.

Yes, I think noncompliance is a big reason for people not getting well.

It's something I'm reminded of every day in my job. People deny or minimize their symptoms, go off, or don't go on prescribed meds at all, and decompensate, sometimes rapidly and to the point of being homeless, suicidal, risking their physical health, etc. because their symptoms make them completely unable to function.

I realize that's not your situation, DSF. You probably function at a pretty high level without meds or therapy, but once you accept therapy or meds or what have you, this whole other level of functioning opens up and you wonder whatever held you back from doing it in the first place.

[drunksunflower]

Wow ... you all said things that make me think more ...

_Sky: maybe it is part of having a disorder but maybe it's also denial ... or are you saying that denial is part of the disorder as well?

Sleeps: well we all know there are crappy medical and mental health professionals out there so ... if you don't have trust in your particular person then how can you go about 'treatment' confidently ...

wi_fighter: yap it's the justification/minimisation thing a lot of the time (but I can only speak for myself). What he had said to me just clicked when I read your post about getting to the stage when you really should be trying a more productive option.

Yes by some standards I am high functioning - I hold down a job that is quite challenging, I have had more luck than others - but I had a comment that I seemed 'stressed' at work and all weekend I suppose I have 'catastrophised' that a bit ... sucks eh

[hereiam]

I don't think so.

I was recommend to take anti-depressants along with my talk therapy, and I refused, because I wanted to know if first I could talk through things. Turns out I did okay with just talk therapy. I still go through depression, which I know the medication would help with, but I don't want medication so when I go through depressive episodes I know how to effectively deal with those the best I can. It's my choice and I think that as long as someone is happy with their life - then the most effective treatment was the treatment they used to get to where they are today.

Good topic.

[drunksunflower]

See I hate the talk thing ... and feel I am in touch with my own issues, I don't have anything to MAKE me particularly depressed, which is why it seems quite biologically based for me personally.

And yea part of my recipe for getting happy ... is definitely working hard ... it is part of CBT (being busy, occupied).

[adeline]

I know what you mean about feeling like it's biologically based and sometimes irrelevent to events in your life. But lately in CBT I've been making some breakthroughs that've made me understand my anxiety alot better (and the fact that not being able to cope with my anxiety leads to depression). It's still really painful to go, and everytime I cry.

And talking about it just makes me feel worse for the rest of the day... which in itself implies that I may be blocking out/denying some of my disfunctional feelings and thoughts EVEN though I feel completely carefree and happy before therapy sessions.

I think that there's always some kind of dysfunctional belief that underlies your depressed/anxious feelings, and causes your neurotransmitters to behave as they do -- although at times it's one that's buried so deep that we can't begin to recognize it.

[drunksunflower]

I think you make a good point, but I also think that it's possible to be self-aware enough that you don't necessarily need to approach helping yourself in that way ...

Different things work so differently for different people!

[hereiam]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
drunksunflower said:
See I hate the talk thing ... and feel I am in touch with my own issues, I don't have anything to MAKE me particularly depressed, which is why it seems quite biologically based for me personally.

And yea part of my recipe for getting happy ... is definitely working hard ... it is part of CBT (being busy, occupied).

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I understand the biologically based depression, because that's my problem too. I have nothing in my life to make me depressed, nothing big in my past to cause the depression, it's just genetics. The counsellors I've seen have all recommend AD's and they think I could really benefit from them - but in the end, it's my choice.

I think the thing that has worked for me the most, which my therapist never taught me, was the learn to live in the moment. Stop worrying so much and thinking about the future, just realize that the present is a one-time thing and by always trying to control it I'm making things worse of myself.

But yea..anyway, I feel like I am in touch with my issues too. Maybe more than I should be. I hate talk therapy, but I did it because I felt like I didn't have much else of a choice. The best course of action is the one that makes you happy...if AD's or other things are a part of that, then more power to ya.

good luck.

[cherybery]

I was told upfront by my new pdoc today that if he has a pt who is noncompliant with their meds he discharges them. It freaked me out some because I will admit I have been noncompliant with mine because I don't always take the suggested dose just because I can't afford it and I get fearful of becoming so dependent on my meds that if something happens where I cannot afford them then I will "crash" Just scares the crap out of me to be so dependent on something.

[Rapunzel]

A past T really wanted me to get on antidepressants. I went to the doctor, just because I had agreed that I would make the appointment, but told the doctor that I didn't really want meds so I didnt get a prescription. Within a month after that, T dropped me.

Does that make me non-compliant? I take SJW (I haven't been consistent with that lately though - after three years it seems like I ought to be able to get off of it), but anyway I didn't want to be dependent on a prescription for several reasons. I didn't want to have that regular expense, and I was worried about not having control over getting it and what if I needed it and couldn't get it, and also I wanted to learn how to manage my symptoms without it. I do feel that we should have the choice.

I do know that there's a biological basis for mental health problems in my case. I have way too many relatives who have significant problems for there not to be. And the things that have happened in my life don't really compare to what others of you have been through. I'm rather sensitive.

I'm not sure how well I comply with therapy sometimes either though. I keep feeling like I really ought to just get my act together and not need that, but I don't get my act together. T asks me when I'm going to stop getting in my own way.

I think that maybe if people would comply better with treatment they would feel better sooner, but on the other hand, I'm not sure that we can comply better than we do all of the time. And also, it might not be what is best for us. Maybe we need to struggle through some of this in order to develop the skills to really recover, and if treatment were faster, we would be missing something, and maybe we would just have to go through it all again a few years or months down the road.

Rap

[drunksunflower]

I don't know what I'm actually going to end up doing ... I prefer SJW but it kinda stopped working a while ago ... maybe I should try it again.

Really interesting hearing different perspectives

[Maven]

While I think non-compliance can lead to not getting well, I think it's sometimes that the therapies recommended just don't work for a particular patient. Everyone is different, and not everyone wants to use medication. These medications often cause unpleasant side effects, and I think it's arrogant to tell someone they have to live with that or they don't want to get well. some people handle some things better than others, and each individual should get to decide if they want to sacrifice or live with certain things to get something else they want. Plus, the fact is, we don't know what effects the meds might have long-term, and no one should be able to force someone to take the risk to his or her body if s/he doesn't want to take the risk.

For the record, I was pro-meds for many years. But after living with them and learning more, I've come to the conclusion that there are more risks than previously disclosed or known, and I believe no one should be able to tell someone else what to do with his or her own body, or what side effects to live with, to give up their sex drive, and what to put in his or her body. If someone wants to use meds or not use them, it should be his/her choice.

[tracylee]

... I was dropped because I didnt attend anger management (Woodwork classes of all things), we need to bear in mind here I am allergic to going out!!! Go figure........

[drunksunflower]

Woodwork is an interesting anger management technique ... all those sharp tools!

Yap one thing I have heard bits about is the effect of ADs on fertility. This is something I would really like to find out more on, because the idea of compromising *that* scares the *&^% out of me.

[Maven]

ADs = antidepressants? I hadn't heard about an effect on fertility, but it doesn't surprise me. But if they put you in a hospital or you get in trouble with the law under certain situations, they can require that you be put on meds. In a hospital, you will be on meds. But as long as they control us, who the hell cares about our rights?

[drunksunflower]

I dunno I have never been in that situation ... hopefully never will be ... but you are right, there is definitely disregard for some basic human rights ...

i am going to research the antidepressant-fertility thing, it might be completely unfounded - but it scared me heh.

[(JD)]

Dr Unk, you know what? I am definitely in touch with my own issues. However, even with all my training/knowledge, I need my T to help me. Remember that adage about the person who is their own xxx... has a fool for a xxx ?

We can know, we can know better...but imo, until we have someone walk with us on the way... all our knowing is for naught! TC (((hugs)))

[Maven]

Oh, the psych told me that all patients in the psych wards get put on drugs, and every documentary I've seen on such things have the patients on drugs. Additionally, everyone I've known who's been in one has been put on meds.

[drunksunflower]

Maybe Sky, but I feel I have my close friends for sounding boards - my feeling is that you should go with whatever you are comfortable with (whether it be therapist, friends, etc).