[Fuzzybear]

is what some call "whining" encouraged in support groups both IRL and on line but what some see as healthy conflict resolution is not?

[SeptemberMorn]

It's not just you, Fuzzy. At least, I feel the same way as you do.

You, yourself, have brought up the question about the difference between support and enabling. Let me ask you a question now. Do you think that the lack of conflict resolution is part of enabling? That thought just came to mind as I typed.

[Zen888]

I totally agree Fuzzy! I'd also like to see more postive "posts" instead of the routine negative "posts". Getting healthy is key....Live for the future and not the past!

Dubz

[nothemama8]

IMO, if we post all negative then we must not be accepting the support we're getting, good topic

Yea I see that too in both real life and on line support and therapeutic groups. In one depression management group I was in there were 5 people counting me and the therapist facilitator. and it never failed every group time the facilitator let this one person go on and on about the same problem week after week. We would all brainstorm ideas on how to help him but yet the next week he was back and complaining about the same exact thing. No one else could get anywhere because we were all babysitting him and his problems that he did not seem to want to take care of. If he did he would have at least tried our ideas and told us if they worked or not and where they didn't work.

I started skipping appointments and finally my therapist took me to the depression management group she was in because she knew if she left me alone that night I would be dead by morning because I had just lost the one thing that was holding me on this earth - the home where I had memorys of my child before he was put into foster care. I watched a few sessions of this faciolitator (not my therapist but another one with the same therapy agency) run her group. there were about 15 of us and one had a tendancy to fall into the poor me I don't know what to do same situation every week.

And I was amazed how she brought this person back on track of the group work and its focus was on helping ourselves to solve problems and then asked the person to do the next question using that situation and asked her how can you solve your problem by using the tools being taught in tonights chapter?" I was so amazed with this therapist at weeding out the whining to getting work done that my therapist and I asked her to be my back up if my therapist was not available in an emergency.

After a couple times of this in group the woman realized this was not a group for her for she could not distract any of us to participate in her whining about the same problem. That healing was up to her and in that group she was expected to work on herself and others work on themselves. She dropped out of the group. I completed that group.

I later joined the depression management group again, this time with my therapist as facilitator and was amazed again how she was able to turn the whining fix me I don't want to do it routines that came her way into "Ok you have this problem how can you solve it by using what we are learning today. I completed that class also.

I was a member of a local sexual abuse support group but I dropped out in part because its a whine session and no real work getting done.

What also irritates me about whining is that when we have children we say to them when they are whining "Don't whine at me if you have something you need help with tell me but don't whine." "I can't understand you when you whine." and "I don't know what you want or what you need when you whine."

And sometimes when I have witnessed people saying these things to their children those people are sometimes the ones that in groups in real life and on line who are doing just what they are telling their children what not to do - whine instead of problem solving.

I understand people sometimes need a "Bwitch session" sometimes but dang the same thing day in and day out?

Whining makes no sense to me. when I am in a gorup and someone needs help I look for -

Heres the problem
heres what I have done....
this was the result......
this is what I need...

If I don't see or hear those things I offer what I can and watch to see if they can use or tried to use what I offered and if not I consider it a whine and pull myself out of the situation bercause I don't need to be pulled down into that other persons problems and go through needless stress about someone elses problems when I have my own to solve.

I have saved myself alot of being stuck and manipulated by others fix me, I really don't want to fix this problem because it is working for me in getting me attention.

Sometimes sitting in a group with a friend I would get the urge to just shake this person and say "hey have you ever thought about how people get more attention by doing what they need to do to take care of the situation? Have you ever thought that you're friends would want to be around you more if they saw you actually trying instead of playing the whine routine?"

It may not be the "feel sorry for me" attention but it is the "hey you're a cool person someone I want to be like, you went through this will you help me" type attention. and it feels so much better and lasts a whole lot longer then the "whine" routine. Eventually the whining pushes people away, because they see that they can't help someone who does not want to help themselves.

[SeptemberMorn]

Is "problem solving" and "healthy conflict resolution" the same thing to you, myself? It isn't to me.

Lets see -

Problem in the depression management group -
Male had a problem with roommate/girlfriend wants more sex and roommates child not doing assigned chores problems

Problem solving -
sit down with roommate and discuss the problem
Give roommate information about depression and medication he is on.
sit down with rooommates child and discuss the chores and why child did not want to do them
make sure chores are age appropiate.
ask roommate and child to move out
move out yourself

The next week came same complaint child still not doing chores when asked the answer was no he did not sit down and same roommate girlfriend problems. when asked if he tried any of the ideas discussed the week before the answer was no.

Conflict resolution -
confliction - the child is not doing the chores and male in group felt he should contribute to helping in the home by at least keeping childs things in childs room.

Resolution ideas -
sit down with child and discuss the situation and find out why the child will not do the chores.
Sit down with the roommate/girlfriend and discus the situation
Ask roommate and child to move out
move yourself out.

Confliction - roommate/girlfriend feels she needs more sex from him, he cannot get it up as often as she wants due to depression and medication

Resolution -
Talk with roommate/girlfriend and supply information about depression and the medication he is on.

Sounds like the same process to me -

Both contain a problem or in your words a conflict and ideas for solving the situation or in your words a resolution.

Yes means the same to me.

By the way this thread is about whining and my views on what I consider whining and what I do to protect myself from being pulled into someone elses need for whining stands. I believe a person does not need to whine and do nothing. That is not going to solve the situation regardless of if it is called conflict resolution or problem solving. Regardless of the wording "problem solving" or "conflct resolution" the problems in life only get solved by doing something about that problem. Whining just keeps the person stuck in the same place.

For example my problem with a DHS caseworker. My complaining was not going to do any bit of good. It was only after I used my problem solving skills (other wise known as conflict resolution process) and doing something about the problem by documenting and then submitting documentation to all three branches of DHS, the district supervisor and the civil rights office which started an investigation into that caseworker. then the outcome of that investigation lead to her being fired from this states DHS offices. I could have whined and whined and whined to people about the situation but all that would have got was people against me and not paying attention to what I had to say about the situation. It was action that solved the situation not whining.

I could while all day long that my back hurts and I am dissocaited but my sitting here whining about it won't fix it. but taking medication for my back and doing things to reconnect with my senses will fix the situation so I touched different textured things, tasted a different variety of foods, went for a walk noticing all the differnet things I could see, stopped to smell some lilacs on the way and so on. My back is no longer hurting so I know that the medication is working and I am no longer dissociated so I know I am on the right track.

[SeptemberMorn]

I think you're thinking of a different kind of conflict resolution than Fuzzy and I are... Oh, well. I'm sorry you wasted all the energy in breaking it down for me. I understood what you said the first time!

I don't consider it energy wasted for other people could probably relate. and understand my post. take care september morn.

[SeptemberMorn]

My point being...

[(JD)]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
is what some call "whining" encouraged in support groups both IRL and on line but what some see as healthy conflict resolution is not?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Totally IMO, many support groups are led by incompetent people. Just because someone might have a degree doesn't mean they know how to effectively facilitate a group of people, especially disordered people! There is a gentle balance between allowing someone to "whine" and allowing someone to express how they are feeling without whining.

I took the "whining" you are referring to fuzzybear not in the literally sense of HEARING (children do whine quite easily that way, if allowed.) Adults are accused of whining (without hearing the voice) imo when they express something occurring that they haven't fully processed, , repeat the same type of responses over time without change. I think I would include those who always complain about others, and never address their part in a situation.

Conflict resolution, to me, is very different. IMO most people abhor doing this. IMO Most people, able bodied, functional, intelligent people don't understand many of the steps in conflict resolution. IMO one main ingredient is discussing the problem! Anytime "the problem" involves the actions of another, then they shy away from exposing that...considering it gossip or putting the person in a bad light...etc.

There is a difference between gossip and slander, and trying to figure out what problems a person might be having and how to best act accordingly. How could anyone expect to resolve a situation that, say, involves another's angry outbursts, if you didn't discuss the person's angry outbursts? (When, what was said, ideas as to why it happened etc.) Only then can a resolution be found.

Resolution, ah yes. This means you take into account all the details involved with the conflict. Sometimes there are factors that do not change. (i.e. I have PTSD..no amount of "discussion" will change this.) To be able to discuss my short comings, my symptomology would be a good thing, not derogative... we all have limitations.

IMO Groups work best, like teams, when everyone has a good understanding of everyone else's shortcomings. Others step up with their strengths when another is weak, no offenses.

THERAPY groups have an added element because it is BECAUSE interactions are poor that one finds themself in a therapy group, imo. No one likes a "whiner." The only ppl, imo, that can bear with a group whiner is someone who is busy in their own mind preparing their own whine! IMO most groups don't have the patience nor the time required for whiners.

I've rambled enough. Can you tell I really never liked group therapy...wouldn't facilitate it, won't go either.

Now, ((((Fuzzybear)))) to answer your post subject question: YES!

yes fuzzy.......i think you are very correct......the only problem that i see is that whining is far easier to do than conflict resolution.....and "myself"......i did get alot out of your post.

[ozzie]

Fuzzy, I agree totally with butterflylady and most of the others. Whining is easy........fixing a problem takes a lot of work!

Thanks for letting me know Butterflylady.

I know I can't please everyone by what I post and or say and there's always going to be someone out there that is ready to fight my views but regardless of that persons own views or urge to fight anything that comes their way either because of the topic, they dont share the same views or they are just having a bad day there is always someone out there in this world that can relate to what I do post and say. So instead of trying to please I just post and say what I do and those that relate can and will.

Thanks again.

[SeptemberMorn]

{{{{{{{{{{Fuzzy}}}}}}}}}}}} Please set us straight. What kind of conflict resolution did you have in mind, Sweety?? Did I misunderstand and jump to conclusions??

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks for all your replies... I was meaning interpersonal conflict resolution when I posted. I found all the replies interesting though

I have plenty of conflicts going on in my bear brain!

[SeptemberMorn]

{{{{{{{{{{FuzzwadBaby}}}}}}}}}}}}

[SeptemberMorn]

Ahhhh! The voice of reason!

Thank you, Sky!!